Lord Young tells the British public "you've never had it so good"

SilverTrain

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The comparison doesn't strike me as valid; Obama took the easy way out. It's not exactly difficult to attack a major oil conglomerate when they're busy covering seagulls and dolphins under millions of barrels of oil. Criticising your own constituents during an economic crisis though for "never having it so good" requires balls of steel.

If Obama had told the U.S to not complain because BP provide a valuable service and sometimes accidents happen then I would have agreed with you.

My point was that "straight talk" tends to be praised by those who agree with the "straight talk"--as in the instant case, and unlike the recent "British backlash" against Obama for having the indecency to talk plainly about BP's responsibilities.
 

SilverTrain

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Dude, you were the one who brought BP and Obama into this (unnecessarily) - seems a bit disingenuous to blame Speculator when he responds.

Yes, I brought up the inconsistencies in responses to hearing unpleasant realities.

And I called out the Speculator non-sequitur for what it was.

And I'm not feeling at all disingenuous. Quite the contrary.
 

dandelion

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i think some above are right, the comparable thing would have been obama telling americans it was their own fault for using too much oil. There seems to be naturally a divisions of views about young. I think what he said was basically correct, so this reaction is ridiculous.

Someone ascerbically observed that Cameron had shown much more loyalty to some of his MPs who had unacceptable expenses claims than he did to Young, who was pointing out an unpalatable truth. But whichever side he came down on, this was no win.
 

StrictlyAvg

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I fail to see how borrowing to the hilt against historically low interest rates translates to "you've never had it so good". If the interest rate goes up by just 1% it represents a HUGE increase in monthly payments and toxic loans would multiply exponentially. It's a house of cards for any homeowner or business struggling to make ends meet. The pains are but a national bank rate increase away.
 

Jason

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He said something silly. People who took out a mortgage a few years ago and have seen their monthly payments fall to their lowest ever levels are doing well (and this was the group he specified). There's a degree of factual truth in what he said. But it was tactless and he shouldn't have said it. Surely a politician of his experience should know that we the public want, nay demand, that our politicians tell us what we want to hear all the time.
 
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He said something silly. People who took out a mortgage a few years ago and have seen their monthly payments fall to their lowest ever levels are doing well (and this was the group he specified).
Except the value of their house will have fallen too, possibly taking them into negative equity. :redface: Not to mention the threat of job losses...

(Not meaning to call you out, btw Jase - just his comment).
 

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Tory peer Lord young has incensed right minded folk up and down the UK with his insensitive comments.

Apparently we're squeamish over a bit of straight talk which means politicians can't win. Either they're lying cheating scumbags or they're "insensitive" when they tell it how it is.

Here's what he said; british homeowners have seen their mortgage repayments drop since the recession kicked in, well they have due to the zero interest rate policy. losing 100,000 jobs in a 30million job economy is little more than a statisitical error, again this is mathmatically correct as it amounts to about 0.3% of total jobs. Finally he claimed that angst over the Cuts was misguided, well as there aren't going to be any cuts -people are making up stuff about a structural deficit and a normal deficit to make it look the Tories are tackling the problem, there's only one deficit- he's correct, gov't spending is actually increasing year on year.


The backlash says more about the public than it does about Lord Young, the government have bailed out every reckless individual and institution going but it's considered impolite to say so without mincing your words.

Sooooooooo typical!! Yet another public figure who, when he blurts out in public what is obviously being said (and FULLY believed) at cocktail parties in the country clubs, suddenly is so embarrased and apologetic. The disdain........oh the disdain for the working class "peons." (or should I spell it pee - on" since "piss on you" seems to be the attitude!
 

Mensch1351

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The BP disaster was a dream come true for Obama, there's nothing lefties like more than a good oil spill.

GREAT -- YOU drink the water from the gulf or eat the fish. I don't think BP's/Halliburton's negligence was a "lefty" issue buddy! "Do it cheap to make a buck and screw the consequences -- we'll pay the "damages"! Some day mother earth is going to REALLY get pissed for our abuses and then you'll realize just how inter-connected we really are (red states/blue states -- the UNITED states!)
 

dandelion

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GREAT -- YOU drink the water from the gulf
Nope. salt water makes you sick

or eat the fish.
Dont know where my fish comes from. Stephen Fry was eating some last week in a documentary about same.

Except the value of their house will have fallen too, possibly taking them into negative equity. :redface: Not to mention the threat of job losses.
house values change all the time and you arent especially aware of it unless you need to sell. But your bank balance going up and down when the mortgage rate changes is quite noticeable. Suddenly theres spare cash at the end of the month. Time to party! Not only do the statistics say he was right entirely and still is right for many, but these people are getting an immediate feel good cash bonus.
 
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house values change all the time and you arent especially aware of it unless you need to sell. But your bank balance going up and down when the mortgage rate changes is quite noticeable. Suddenly theres spare cash at the end of the month. Time to party! Not only do the statistics say he was right entirely and still is right for many, but these people are getting an immediate feel good cash bonus.
I think that's a bit simplistic dude. You have to take it in the wider context: yes, interest rates have gone down and so have mortgage repayments - but wage cuts, job insecurity/joblessness, lack of business all come into the mix too.

My bro and his wife bought their first house in 07 - they now have negative equity (since, as you know, the crisis bringing about the interest rate cut also caused a drop in house prices), my brother's driving school business has slowed to a trickle, and his wife has just had to accept a much lower paid job in order to stay in work (due to cuts in council staff); in short - they're finding it much harder to keep up with the payments and other bills, not easier (and I would expect them to be fairly typical of young couples around the country). So...yes, mortgage repayments are lower - but taking into account all the other factors involved in the recession, a lot of people end up with less, not more.
 

Drifterwood

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That does suck, Joll and I do have sympathy for young people. We had the same thing in the early 1990's. You learn that if there is an upside......... The Brits though have persuaded themselves that there is no downside, everything is always lovely and we deserve it. Every UK Government has overspent for the last 100 years. A dose of reality won't harm if it means that going forward we have realistic costs, starting with housing.

I understand that in the States you can just give the keys back if you face negative equity. Had we had such a system, the Banks wouldn't have lent so stupidly.
 
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That does suck, Joll and I do have sympathy for young people. We had the same thing in the early 1990's. You learn that if there is an upside......... The Brits though have persuaded themselves that there is no downside, everything is always lovely and we deserve it. Every UK Government has overspent for the last 100 years. A dose of reality won't harm if it means that going forward we have realistic costs, starting with housing.

I understand that in the States you can just give the keys back if you face negative equity. Had we had such a system, the Banks wouldn't have lent so stupidly.
Cheers for the responses, dude - sorry I got on me high horse earlier. :redface:

Yeh, I do think the banks were terribly irresponsible, especially in Ireland - but here and the US, etc also. Basically chucking loans at people because the rate of interest is currently low is ridiculous. I do also feel sorry for pensioners (and myself lol) who get sod all interest from their savings which no doubt they've scrimped and saved for and generally been pretty responsible about. I think (apart from all the practical effects) it's a big lesson in behaving sensibly and responsibly, altho many ppl face a hard time now as a result. :S
 

dandelion

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I think that's a bit simplistic dude. You have to take it in the wider context: yes, interest rates have gone down and so have mortgage repayments - but wage cuts, job insecurity/joblessness, lack of business all come into the mix too.
I'm sure they do. Yet supposedly national statistics confirm that Young was correct at least as regards 2009. That overall figure no doubt disguises one group who have had no problem with their job and a big drop in mortgage payments, and another group who have lost a job, been in negative equity and had to sell at a loss. And somewhere in between might be a relative of mine, whose drop in mortgage payments has quietly subsidised other issues, so they have been carrying on more or less the same. But that mortgage spring trap is sitting there waiting to catch everyone if interest rates go up before a significant recovey has taken place. Government would be utter fools if they do not recognise the truth behind what young said. Though I'd agree they might very much be trying to keep it as quiet as possible. A general realisation that there is a big potential problem might precipitate that problem into reality now.
 
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But that mortgage spring trap is sitting there waiting to catch everyone if interest rates go up before a significant recovey has taken place.
True. You'd think people would factor in potential interest rate rises when taking on a mortgage, but it often doesn't seem to happen - or maybe a lot of ppl are that pushed they can only afford to think how to scrape by in the present (altho it seems a bit unwise).
 
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but we all know house prices only ever go up, so if the worst happens, just sell.
Lol...at least (as u mentioned in the other thread) we still have a housing shortage in the UK, so we won't be left with derelict, half-built housing estates everywhere. :/
 

dandelion

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there are a few though. One or two abandoned developments round where I live. There seems to be a problem brewing over the governments regeneration grants which have just been slashed. Not that I liked them when they were introduced - another of those grand schemes to knock down perfectly repairable old terraces and build new. Although the news just love to dramatise, it seems some people are going to get left in the middle of half rebuilt estates for quite some time.
 

Adrian69702006

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Tory peer Lord young has incensed right minded folk up and down the UK with his insensitive comments.

Apparently we're squeamish over a bit of straight talk which means politicians can't win. Either they're lying cheating scumbags or they're "insensitive" when they tell it how it is.

Here's what he said; british homeowners have seen their mortgage repayments drop since the recession kicked in, well they have due to the zero interest rate policy. losing 100,000 jobs in a 30million job economy is little more than a statisitical error, again this is mathmatically correct as it amounts to about 0.3% of total jobs. Finally he claimed that angst over the Cuts was misguided, well as there aren't going to be any cuts -people are making up stuff about a structural deficit and a normal deficit to make it look the Tories are tackling the problem, there's only one deficit- he's correct, gov't spending is actually increasing year on year.


The backlash says more about the public than it does about Lord Young, the government have bailed out every reckless individual and institution going but it's considered impolite to say so without mincing your words.

As is often the case with statements made by politicians, there was a grain of truth in what Lord Young said - for SOME people. However a lot of people are in considerably difficulty at the present time through no fault of their own and the government has made massive cuts to public spending and capital projects which will affect most, if not all, of us. Lord Young's words were ill-judged and should not have been uttered. In resigning he's taken the only honourable course open to him.
 

dandelion

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What do you mean by SOME people? The quote says ' british homeowners have seen their mortgage repayments drop since the recession kicked in'. Are you suggesting this is not true? (hint:it is true)

and 'losing 100,000 jobs in a 30million job economy is little more than a statisitical error,'. Are you saying this is false? (hint:it is true)

and 'he claimed that angst over the Cuts was misguided, well as there aren't going to be any cuts -.... he's correct, gov't spending is actually increasing year on year.' I'm not sure this is an exact quote of what he said, but are you disagreeing that it is factually correct? (hint: it is)

a lot of people are in considerably difficulty at the present time through no fault of their own and the government has made massive cuts to public spending and capital projects which will affect most, if not all, of us
Yes, Im sure they are. But happily a lot more are not in difficulties right now. So on balance, Young would be right to say most are doing pretty well. The cuts will affect us all, but this is still one of the wealthiest countries in the world. We are stunningly rich by both world and historical standards. We are not doing so well as Germany, but better than Ireland, which has slipped from best country in the world to live to merely 5th place. Incidentally, the UK is 26th. Germany 10 and US 4. The numbers suggest that money is not the most important issue.(http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR_2010_EN_Complete.pdf}

No, the dire predictions for the UK have not yet arrived. Current government spending levels have staved off the effects of the recession for the moment as they were intended to do. So people have not felt an effect. There may yet be one. The property crash hasnt happened yet. It might. it might not. It will not help to prevent it if we do not accept that what young said is correct. This country has been held back from the Irish abyss by low interest rates. Opinion is divided over whether government cutbacks have boosted the irish recession, and over whether government continuing to spend has held off economic collapse in the UK.