Love and Envy

[D_Tim McGnaw]

OK so we're used to thinking of love and hate as being related, but I want to know if its possible to both love someone and feel intense envy of them simultaneously and if doing so is healthy.

I have a close friend from school, put simply he is one of the most beautiful human beings, both physically and by nature, I have ever met, and I've met a lot of beautiful people.

We lost contact for a few years after we left school and only bumped in to each other accidentally about 9 years ago and since then we've become really good friends. He's a year younger than me and in school he wasn't out, while I pretty much spectacularly was. After we'd rekindled our friendship he admitted to me (much to my enormous chagrin) that at school I'd been a huge influence on him and my confidence about my sexuality had helped him come to terms with his own and given him the courage to come out. Needless to say I was enormously flattered and embarrassed.

Years have passed, and his beauty and charm and attractiveness have only grown, he's one of those people who literally magnetizes whole rooms of people, and when ever we are in each other's company we have wonderful times and I treasure the time we do have together because he works abroad and we see each other infrequently these days.

A couple of years after we'd reconnected we had one particularly debauched weekend on the town together and ended up sharing a bed in a hotel, we didn't shag, I think because we were both uncomfortable with what that might do to our friendship, but there has always been an undertone of sexual tension between us, which I (due to my personal hangups about my appearance) have never quite been able to believe is real or as significant as some have suggested. We've never talked about it seriously, though we joke about it a lot.

I do however feel intense envy sometimes of just how truly gorgeous he is, I can't help it, no matter how much I rationalise it, and no matter how I tell myself it's about my own insecurities, it just lurks there still. It makes me annoyed with myself, because I have envied almost no one else all my life, despite not being terribly enamoured of my appearance I am extremely pleased to be me and I love my life and am a confident and self assured person but this one person in all the world makes me envious and horny at the same time and it pisses me off that I envy him his physical beauty, because he's actually so so so much more than that.

Is it possible to really love a person (platonicly or not) and yet at the same time envy them intensely sometimes? Is it healthy? Or does this situation in my life more likely stem from me secretly kicking myself that me and this guy never fucked? It's actually really conflicting, and it bothers the hell out of me. He posted pics of himself and his hot new BF on FB the other day and instead of being pleased to see my mate having fun, all I could do was fixate on how great his abs looked and how sexy he looked sitting by some fountain in spain and just feeling shit because I wont (being totally honest) ever look that hot.

God I hate actually writing that, but it's true. It makes me seem so shallow and shitty. Grrrrrr, I actually love this guy (as a friend) and I really do treasure him as a person.

 

[HiddenLacey]

Nope! I do not think you are swallow or shitty. My best friend is one beautiful rocking witch! She can walk into a room and all eyes are on her. She can be charming and an outright witch and still have people eating out of her hand.

I envy her to an extent. I realized along time ago. We are both beautiful. You put us side by side and we are mirror opposites in almost everyway. Neither of us is really any less attractive, we are just different. It is perfectly normal to envy someone. I stare at other women and become hung up on something about their body I wish I had. It is human nature in my opinion.

Do not feel guilty. You seem like a strong, independant man. You know who you are. Stare at the hot mans body, envy his charisma. At the end of the day your still you and that's pretty special!

 

[B_subgirrl]

Nope! I do not think you are swallow or shitty. My best friend is one beautiful rocking witch! She can walk into a room and all eyes are on her. She can be charming and an outright witch and still have people eating out of her hand.

I envy her to an extent. I realized along time ago. We are both beautiful. You put us side by side and we are mirror opposites in almost everyway. Neither of us is really any less attractive, we are just different. It is perfectly normal to envy someone. I stare at other women and become hung up on something about their body I wish I had. It is human nature in my opinion.

Do not feel guilty. You seem like a strong, independant man. You know who you are. Stare at the hot mans body, envy his charisma. At the end of the day your still you and that's pretty special!

I can never say stuff as sweetly as submissivegirl so I'll just say 'What she said'.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Nope! I do not think you are swallow or shitty. My best friend is one beautiful rocking witch! She can walk into a room and all eyes are on her. She can be charming and an outright witch and still have people eating out of her hand.

I envy her to an extent. I realized along time ago. We are both beautiful. You put us side by side and we are mirror opposites in almost everyway. Neither of us is really any less attractive, we are just different. It is perfectly normal to envy someone. I stare at other women and become hung up on something about their body I wish I had. It is human nature in my opinion.

Do not feel guilty. You seem like a strong, independant man. You know who you are. Stare at the hot mans body, envy his charisma. At the end of the day your still you and that's pretty special!

You're really lovely, thank you :redface:. It just kinda eats at me a bit, because I think envy does have a slightly negative taint to it, something I feel bad about. I feel like I should be happy for him and that should be it, there shouldn't be this part of me that's happy for him and also pissed for me. How selfish is that?:frown1:

 

[HiddenLacey]

You're really lovely, thank you :redface:. It just kinda eats at me a bit, because I think envy does have a slightly negative taint to it, something I feel bad about. I feel like I should be happy for him and that should be it, there shouldn't be this part of me that's happy for him and also pissed for me. How selfish is that?:frown1:

Yes, but though you may envy him, are you not still happy for him as well? My boyfriend just bought a new truck! I envy it, but I'm still happy for him. I don't need a new vehicle but I'm still envious!

Don't be so hard on yourself:wink:

 

[B_subgirrl]

You're really lovely, thank you :redface:. It just kinda eats at me a bit, because I think envy does have a slightly negative taint to it, something I feel bad about. I feel like I should be happy for him and that should be it, there shouldn't be this part of me that's happy for him and also pissed for me. How selfish is that?:frown1:

It's completely normal and okay to feel envious hilaire. Really :smile:. The important part is that you do actually feel happy for him.

 

[Corius]

My roommate in college was drop-dead, movie-star gorgeous. I was in awe of his physical beauty and delighted to discover he slept in the nude: I promptly retired my pajamas to the drawer. We were soon bonded lovers and remained so for more than two years. We not only enjoyed sexual communion we talked about it and a host of other things. I made no secret of the fact that his presence aroused me sexually and in other ways. He was a fantastic dancer and as such very popular with the girls. He was a bit envious of my easy ways in conversation with the ladies/ they fascinated him and scared the shit out of him too. You call it envy, but you could just as well call it admiration. I was immensely complimented that theis gorgeous fellow came to have the hots for me as I had the hots for him. He was a sexual innocent when I first met him, but by the end of our relationship he was a very enthusiastic, competent, lover. He married but was soon divorced and for many years blamed himself for his inabitlity to be a happy conventional husband.

In this world persons see themselves in relationshp to others in different ways. I take it a my mission to assure others that they are important persons to me. I like the definition of love as "the settled disposition to seek the good of the other for the sake of the other rather than one's own good.," Do this and you will often discover that the loved one is similarly disposed to you; it is a win-win arrangement.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Yes, but though you may envy him, are you not still happy for him as well? My boyfriend just bought a new truck! I envy it, but I'm still happy for him. I don't need a new vehicle but I'm still envious!

Don't be so hard on yourself:wink:

It's completely normal and okay to feel envious hilaire. Really :smile:. The important part is that you do actually feel happy for him.

Do you think the sexual tension is magnifying how I'm reacting to this?

 

[B_subgirrl]

Do you think the sexual tension is magnifying how I'm reacting to this?

Definitely! Your attraction to him probably means that you magnify his best qualities. You may also be channeling any frustration about wanting and not having him into envy.

 

[HiddenLacey]

Do you think the sexual tension is magnifying how I'm reacting to this?

Yes! My pervy opinion is that you guys should become *closer.* But I understand about perfection being alittle scary! I think the fact that you obviously seem to want him is clouding your views on how you see him. Almost like you are elevating him to the *untouchable* state. NOBODY is that special, unless you are talking about yourself.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Definitely! Your attraction to him probably means that you magnify his best qualities. You may also be channeling any frustration about wanting and not having him into envy.

The frustration thing I definitely get, it's like I'm kicking myself for not taking the opportunity when I had it to be with the hottest guy I know, who bonus! Is a fantastic person too. The thing is I just know it would screw our friendship up if we ever did anything, and I've always been slightly unwilling to believe he's attracted to me sexually even though I see signs of it which I wouldn't even think twice about if it were another guy. I mean it's easy enough to mistake Bromance for something more sexual.

Yes! My pervy opinion is that you guys should become *closer.* But I understand about perfection being alittle scary! I think the fact that you obviously seem to want him is clouding your views on how you see him. Almost like you are elevating him to the *untouchable* state. NOBODY is that special, unless you are talking about yourself.

Yeah I suppose there's more than a bit of that going on, me not wanting to mar perfection or worse be disappointed if the sex wasn't up to much. :tongue:

 

[B_subgirrl]

The thing is I just know it would screw our friendship up if we ever did anything, and I've always been slightly unwilling to believe he's attracted to me sexually even though I see signs of it which I wouldn't even think twice about if it were another guy.

Why would it change your friendship? You might actually find out that you're perfect for each other.

 

[HiddenLacey]

How do you know he doesn't feel the same way? From what you are saying he looks up to you! Now he has a boyfriend. You should feel it out if he becomes free again. I'm off for the night! Goodluck to you

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Why would it change your friendship? You might actually find out that you're perfect for each other.

Well that would seem logical, and I can see myself falling for that hook line a sinker, but right now I'm seeing someone kinda regularly and I think I should be focused on that :tongue: I mean I'm still a healthy gay man so I'm still sexually attracted to other guys sometimes, but I don't think what me and my friend have could be parleyed in to a really healthy committed relationship, we're too alike. Codependency and mutual reinforcement of our worst traits would ensue I suspect. :tongue:

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Do you love him, or are you in love with him?
If it's the latter, I see no contradiction between that condition and feeling envy with regard to aspects of his being.
As a matter of fact, I think feeling envy and certain insecurities are almost defining characteristics of being in love.
To be in love is to want a great deal back.
To love is to have far fewer (largely unconscious) demands.
Love itself creates a sense of wholeness and self-sufficiency.
But no matter, hil.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being in love, if that's the case here.
And any envy you sense should not trouble you.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

How do you know he doesn't feel the same way? From what you are saying he looks up to you! Now he has a boyfriend. You should feel it out if he becomes free again. I'm off for the night! Goodluck to you

I guess I just love being friends so damn much! I know that sounds like a good basis for a relationship, but I tend to think being BFs includes something more than just being great friends, and I'm not willing to be with a guy just because we're great friends and he's sexy as hell. I know how weird that sounds. :tongue: Plus like I say atm I'm not really on the market either.

 

[B_subgirrl]

Well that would seem logical, and I can see myself falling for that hook line a sinker, but right now I'm seeing someone kinda regularly and I think I should be focused on that :tongue:

Hee, hee. Yeah, you probably should. :smile: Maybe if you are ever both footloose and fancy free . . .

I mean I'm still a healthy gay man so I'm still sexually attracted to other guys sometimes, but I don't think what me and my friend have could be parleyed in to a really healthy committed relationship, we're too alike. Codependency and mutual reinforcement of our worst traits would ensue I suspect. :tongue:

Don't try to talk yourself out of it!

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Do you love him, or are you in love with him?
If it's the latter, I see no contradiction between that condition and feeling envy with regard to aspects of his being.
As a matter of fact, I think feeling envy and certain insecurities are almost defining characteristics of being in love.
To be in love is to want a great deal back.
To love is to have far fewer (largely unconscious) demands.
Love itself creates a sense of wholeness and self-sufficiency.
But no matter, hil.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being in love, if that's the case here.
And any envy you sense should not trouble you.

That's just it, I do love him, but I know neither of us is in love with each other (we'd have told each other years ago if that were the case), if we had sex I don't think that would magically change and I think it would spoil our friendship.

The envy is normal I know, but it just feels wrong maybe as I say because it's such an unusual feeling for me. I genuinely can't recall feeling this kind of envy of anyone else ever. :redface:

 

[TheRob]

I know that is is possible, I cannot verify that it is or is not healthy