Love In The Time Of Consent

Scarletbegonia

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A Slate advice column reminded me of a conversation I had with a dear friend.
He was talking about being on a date with a mutual acquaintance, and at a stoplight, asking if he could kiss her.
This was a romantic obviously into each other date.
It occurred to me, no one has ever asked if they could kiss me. It was all reading the vibe. I have been (sort of) asked if a hug can go on.
Now, he’s in LA, known in entertainment, and has good reasons to make sure no one ever accuses him of anything.
And, I guess it got filed under “has to live as if his life will be on the front page.”

So I’m wondering, do you ask? Been asked?
Still reading the moment?

How do you navigate the first lip lock?

Slate link
A Woman Says I “Assaulted” Her After Totally Normal Dating Behavior. Did I?
 
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Good post, SB. Hope it generates discussion.

In the time I've been single, I think I've been asked more often than not. I prefer it, as it seems polite/respectful, but I also want to leave room for spontaneous moments. My most recent first kiss was the latter... he was moved to want to kiss me by something I said and he went for it. It was really genuine and authentic... and I had just shoved a bite of chocolate cake in my mouth so it was kinda funny, too.

If a guy asks, it provides me an opportunity to frame what kind of kiss I'm open to. I can say "a small one", or "I was wondering what your lips would feel like" or "I thought you'd never ask!"

I've had times where dudes totally misread me or didn't care to do a vibe check. If that happens, I usually just turn my cheek. NBD. If he gives me grief about it, then it IS a big deal because he's showing that what he wants is and will always be more important than my boundaries and that's the end of that. I don't give grief back, I'm just done. If the opportunity to say so comes up, I'll take it. It's pretty damn funny when I get called a prude by these dudes because I don't usually kiss on the first date. Ok, pal... you go ahead and think that.
 

Sagittarius84

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I was dating my wife as issues of consent were being discussed mainstream widely, but prior I had already adopted a policy of letting the woman make the 1st physically intimate move...I understood the romance and spontaneity factor, but I weighed that against all of the other factors that could put her or me in a bad space and figured it was more worth it for her to risk a bit of her pride then for me to possibly fuck up my reputation.
I dont advise it to most men because reality dictates that most women arent going to make the 1st overt move, but its the mutually safest construct, and personally I think a lot more indicative of the womans attraction to the man than if she simply allows or accepts a kiss.
 

Scarletbegonia

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As much as I dislike modern interpretations of “chivalry” and the images that go with it, hand kissing might need to return. Both ways, either party could instigate.

I once instigated with a kiss on the cheek. I’m short, usually the guys are not, so imagine Tigger bouncing up. Or at least in pointe shoes.
He was a co contractor, we were struggling to get a stage put together during a thunderstorm. We’d flirted, gone to breakfast post shows in a group, and basically had been sort of wondering where it could go for a couple years.
He got this spacey look in his eyes and asked if I wanted to go for a drink.
He had resting asshole face, so I thought I’d blown it, before he spoke.
 
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I've never been outright asked if it was ok to kiss me, that I can remember. I have had a guy say he wants to kiss me before leaning in, I guess that's a way of giving the opportunity to say no without asking.

For the most part though we've just naturally been on the same wavelength
 
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Sagittarius84

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Eh, either party can instigate now, I dont think simply changing the action is going to bring about any equity, nor quell too many fears about how consent can play into the matter, at least as far as men are concerned in dealing with women. Our instigation into kissing or any type of romantic physical contact, even without legal consequences is always going to carry a higher risk of violating some subjective sense of consent as opposed to our women counterparts'. Granted I dont exactly lament this, I do think far too many men are willfully ignorant to reading social cues that lead up to this behavior, but id be lying if I didnt identify a twang of resentment in myself in hearing women's reasons for not initiating such things when they have objectively a lot less tolose by doing so.
Fortunately however, puberty(though late as it was) was good enough to me that despite the numbers against me i was able to be with a woman that overtly made her sexual intentions clear before me, and had no issue with initiating romantic physical contact 1st.
 

DiamondJoe

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Yes and no... it depends on the situation and the person, particularly if they're new I might ask...

But then there's the frisson of excitement when the conversation falters, the two of you are close and... oh, is this the moment where one of us makes a move...?
 
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longstroke7

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It never hurts to ask. Before I put my dick in anyone I always make sure we are on the same page. The last thing I would ever want to do is force someone into something that they aren't into.
 
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DiamondJoe

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It never hurts to ask. Before I put my dick in anyone I always make sure we are on the same page. The last thing I would ever want to do is force someone into something that they aren't into.

^ this.

I cannot find myself sexually aroused by a person who's not into it/me. I like to think that I'm a good judge of this and would never force myself on anyone but it doesn't hurt to ask, "Is this ok?"

And not just at the start... with a new partner in particular, with whom you are unacquainted with their body and boundaries, it pays to just stop every once in a while and just check they're still onboard with you contorting their body or whatever you might be up to in the throws of passion.
 
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longstroke7

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^ this.

I cannot find myself sexually aroused by a person who's not into it/me. I like to think that I'm a good judge of this and would never force myself on anyone but it doesn't hurt to ask, "Is this ok?"

And not just at the start... with a new partner in particular, with whom you are unacquainted with their body and boundaries, it pays to just stop every once in a while and just check they're still onboard with you contorting their body or whatever you might be up to in the throws of passion.

Yeah, it's not particularly sexy but a small whisper in her ear about how she's feeling or if she's OK is what I do.
 

Scarletbegonia

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Yes and no... it depends on the situation and the person, particularly if they're new I might ask...

But then there's the frisson of excitement when the conversation falters, the two of you are close and... oh, is this the moment where one of us makes a move...?

Frisson is such a good word choice. Delightful.
I adore those almost-dorky moments where the vibe is getting read and questioned. Good stories come of that, no matter if moves get made or not. Better stories come from a goof that gets to follow through anyway.

For those who have same gender moments and opposite gender moments, is there a difference if you are both the same gender?

(Everyone) is there a difference if the encounter is intended in some way to lead to more than a one off?
 
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I couldn't reply to this due to where it was posted, but:
at about 3:15 in, the woman suggests that a man get affirmation that what they're doing is what she wants vs. her saying no. Ya don't have to depend on the other partner mashing the brakes if you ask if it's ok to step on the gas.

When I saw that portion of the clip, my initial thought was that if a guy said "do you want to do this? Does this seem like a good idea to you?" to me and I wanted to, I'm probably going to jump his bones big time. It shows respect and a willingness to be vulnerable for my benefit. Both are a big deal to me and will invite reciprocation (which will be for his benefit). If you make that check-in with me, I'm going to be far, far, FAR more willing to trust you enough to explore my boundaries. Curious if others feel the same.
 

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If you make that check-in with me, I'm going to be far, far, FAR more willing to trust you enough to explore my boundaries. Curious if others feel the same.

Yes, I completely agree with you. To me, it's a necessary step that one of us has to take. Many would think it would be awkward or even negative to the moment but here's the thing: If the moment is right, that check-in isn't awkward at all. It can be another step in the rise of delicious tension between you. Sometimes, it can be incredibly hot escalation as those defenses are voluntarily relinquished.
 

WilliamG

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In my younger days... And I would do it today. My wife still remembers it. I turned toward her with my hand on her hips and said, 'I'm going to kiss you (gotta say it with confidence)..." I waited for her to give a little smile and head tilt, and I moved in. Funny thing is I got it from a movie (don't remember the name). It seemed like a cool way to "make that initial move". With a little finesse, it's a safe approach. Be prepared to stall or stop. If you've decided to kiss her, hopefully you've taken the time to read her at bit.

BTW... True story, I met a much older woman one night. I was maybe 22 she was easy 40. I told her I was going to kiss her. She replied, "And then fuck me...". That was when I discovered the older woman thing...
 

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If I were a man, I'd be afraid out of this life of making the first move! I think I'd wait for written consent.
 

steve2727

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When I kissed people for the first time, I always felt there was a non verbal 'asking' step, i.e when you lean towards them, pause, and wait for them to meet you the rest of the way, if they break eye contact, say something or do pretty much anything else, you've misjudged the moment. I'd never just pile straight in.

Or can that initial lean be seen as pressuring / not cool without prior consent now?

Empathy & emotional intelligence have always been things I've had to work on, and I always thought that knowing when the moment was right to kiss without having to outright ask was a way to showI at least had some clue.

Hopefully it's not something I'll have to worry about but would be interesting to know if that's not the right way to think about it any more
 
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Mule

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Personally I think that you can ask without asking, @steve2727. However, it does require the necessary sensitivity to the reaction. The recipient of your eye contact and body language must have an easy way out: If you're using a non-verbal ask, you must provide many options for a non-verbal "no" and listen when it is given. Any doubt at all: Stop.