loving a gay daughter

[bottombuddy]

We had the same thing happen in our family. My brother ran off and hasnt come back in almost 7 years. I dont know if my parents would handle it the same way again, but it does make me think about how i would handle it with my daughter and how not destroy the relationship over it.

how are your parents feeling now and do they wish to make contact with their son..surely they must?

 

[B_cigarbabe]

Living in Oklahoma (aka the bible belt) has nothing to do with it. That doesn't automatically make people stupid. My Mom was a devout christian, and fairly innocent of "the ways of the world". She was old when I finally came out to her, and she would have seemed to be a prime candidate for not understanding. But she was intelligent enough to understand that I was the same person whom she had loved for the previous 30-something years, and that she didn't "make any mistakes" with me that she didn't make with her other children. She understood when I told her it was not a choice, but just a part of who I was. She accepted me, without question, and never compared it to anything like a drug addiction. This was in Arkansas, just as much bible belt as Oklahoma.

Of course parents don't want their children to deal with hardship every step of the way; but being gay is not a character flaw. The character flaw is with the parent who cannot accept their own child for something beyond that child's control.

Drug addiction is a horrible thing, but it is a choice to take that first drink or snort that first line. Addictions can be overcome. Sexual orientation (contrary to claims by Exodus) cannot be "cured" and is intrinsic.

P. S. njqt, I love ya, but trying to quote your posts is a nightmare.

I love ya' DC,you always put things in perspective,simply!
I just don't get you people saying, that you would be so insulted,to have your sexuality, be compared to drug addiction.There isn't any comparison,clearly.
Your sexuality isn't a choice,and although I did choose to initally
try drugs,anyone who thinks I chose to be addicted,just doesn't have a clue.Whether your child is a drug addict or gay,wouldn't you love them regardless,of their issues at any given moment?
Not accepting your child because of some percieved flaw,is just ignorant.
Qualifying your love for your kids, well something is wrong. That is beyond ignorant. IMO.
cigarbabe:saevil:

 

[hotbtminla]

I started pulling quotes because so much of the sentiment I feel has been eloquently stated above, and in a better way that I could have. But then It would just have been one hella long post, so I'll just add my 2 cents ineloquently and write my one hella long post. I gotta stop doing that.

First I want to shake the hand of Mr. Ed in Mass. Because, really that is what it's all about. You are a gentleman, sir.

Granunification... it's obviously a difficult situation. But I do think it's important to focus on the fact that your mom says that she loves your sister no matter what.

For many people unconditional love can only ever be granted to their child. Both of my best friends have two kids each. Their love for them is unconditional and unquestionable and I see it every day. They love their wives too, but that's definitely conditional. :wink: Over Christmas the topic came up, "what would you do if X turns out to be gay?" and so forth, and their reactions were the same, in fact one of them went so far to say "What do you mean what would I do? He's my only son, and I love him more than anything. I want him to happy. I want him to be successful in a career that he enjoys. I want his life to be full of good people, joy, and adventure. I want him to fall in love with someone he wants to share his life with and have them join our family. And if that other person is another guy... well then I'll have somebody to shoot hoops with while he's redecorating the rec room." That last bit was said with a wink of course. But when asked what he would do if his son came out to him, the only thing that came to mind was, "I would tell him I love him. And I would tell him how proud I am of him to have the guts to tell me, because that's a scary, scary fucking conversation to have with a parent."

I realize we're talking about different generations and different cultures. My friend the dad is in his mid-30s and we live in LA, and our extended "family" of orphans came here from all over the country but tend to share the same pragmatic, liberal point of view on certain subjects. We also have a lot of gay and bi people in our lives, so for us it isn't weird.

But for a lot people in other parts of the country it is weird, and not being exposed to it makes it foreign. And because there is so much hostility toward gay people in this country (especially in the Bible Belt) I think any parent would be scared for their child. A good parent wants to nurture their child and protect them from things that could harm them. Knowing that their child has "chosen" a lifestyle that could make them at best a pariah and at worst a target for discrimination or violence is very upsetting. Even parents that understand it's not a choice aren't offered respite, because they might feel guilty for wishing their child was something they aren't simply so they don't have to go through the hardship they're likely going to face.

Defense mechanisms are what they are. For example, I almost always laugh or make inappropriate jokes during stressful or somber situations. Sometimes this adds some much needed levity, other times it lands like an anvil dropped through a piano.

Yes, I think your mom's comparison of a gay daughter to a drug addicted daughter was tactless and inappropriate, and I could see why your sister was offended. And not being there, not knowing the kind of person you mother is, take my comments with a grain of salt. But I think she was trying to wrap her brain around an unexpected piece of news and said something boneheaded in an attempt to underscore the important thing she was saying, which was that she loves your sister no matter what. Does she need to go get some counseling to help her adjust? Probably. Boneheaded comments come from ignorant people and douchebags. It doesn't sound like your mom is a douchebag. If she's interested in educating herself about gay life, gay issues and so forth in order to deepen her relationship with her daughter, then she should go for it. The love it there, its just the understanding that needs some work.

I also think your sister may be blowing things out of proportion. Because plenty of times, with that generation, that conversation goes much, much worse. Plenty of times it ends quickly and you get thrown out of the house. My dad didn't speak to me for 6 years after I told him. Her mom actually told her she loves her, albeit in an ass-backward kind of way. She should give her another chance, because you only get one mother. If its a lost cause move on, but I don't think this sounds like a lost cause.

 

[DC_DEEP]

<...>
Over Christmas the topic came up, "what would you do if X turns out to be gay?" and so forth, and their reactions were the same, in fact one of them went so far to say "What do you mean what would I do? He's my only son, and I love him more than anything.

QFT. More on that in a moment...

I realize we're talking about different generations and different cultures. My friend the dad is in his mid-30s and we live in LA, and our extended "family" of orphans came here from all over the country but tend to share the same pragmatic, liberal point of view on certain subjects. We also have a lot of gay and bi people in our lives, so for us it isn't weird.

But for a lot people in other parts of the country it is weird, and not being exposed to it makes it foreign. And because there is so much hostility toward gay people in this country (especially in the Bible Belt) I think any parent would be scared for their child.

But still, I think the "different generation and different culture" is just an excuse, and underscores the fact that such conditional love for a child really is not love at all. If my Mom, coming from the background and generation she did, could accept me, I don't really see how any other parent would have such a difficult time with it.

Back to the first part of the quote: I can't wrap my brain around the concept that any parent could honestly say to a child, "For the last 20 years, you have been the light of my life, and I have loved you more than life itself; you have always made me proud, and you were one of the most honorable people I've ever known. But since you told me yesterday that you are gay, I have decided to rescind my love for you, turn it off like a light switch. You are disgusting and I hate you."

I know that's not what the OP posted, and it wasn't really directed at him or his mother, but that kind of thing happens all the time. If someone can turn it off like that, was it ever truly love to begin with?

 

[Osiris]

Yeah, mom was wrong, but if she was like my family, it's understandable. Also, if your mother watches television, two themes recur in stories involving "comnig out":

1. The person coming out worries that their family will no longer love them.
2. The family is usually depicted as hateful and miguided only to wake up and accept and love the person by the end of the story.

Your mom's comparison was VERY misguided, but for depression era babies like my folks, completely understandable as they think "being gay" is more a choice than a way of life. That sounds odd, but I think you know what I mean.

This brings back memories of when my older brother came out.

My very worldly mother (she had an assistant in her office who was a crossdresser and we had several gay neighbors, so she is no stranger to the culture) was at a loss for words. Telling my brother she loved him unconditionally and leaving it at that. Later between the two of us she would stand in our living room window gazing blankly out at the snow saying "Why would he do this? Did me leaving your father cause this?"

Now flip to my man's man, bible thumping Southern Baptist raised, Catholic convert father. He pretty much said the same thing to my brother my mother had said, but later that afternoon, he retreated to his house and cried proclaiming "I must have been a rotten father to him." He had his faults with my brother, but they did not make him who he was.

Seeing all this and knowing they truly loved my brother, I was terrified to have my talk with him.

I think I was the only one who took the honest road. I took my brother and his boyfriend to lunch (neutral ground). I told them what I felt honestly:

"Brother, I love you and like you a lot. Phil, I like you a lot too. You AND Phil I don't know about because it is foreign to me right now. Yes I know gay people, but it is different seeing this from the guy who dated women in high school and snuck dad's Playboys. It is kind of a shock in some ways. Plus now the family is trying to marry me off at 17 because of your coming out, so there is a lot of pressure on me. I hope you two aren't mad at me for being honest about being uncomfortable right now, but I am sure in time I'll get used to it. I just want you to know I don't hate you, I need to do some adjusting on my part with your help. I may ask stupid questions, but it's so I can accept and understand you as a couple."

My brother actually hugged me and said, "If the folks could have been that honest, I would have understood."

I'm just glad my kids will know their uncle in his true self from day one and they won't have the stumbling block we did. They can love their two uncles without any odd feelings. Just like their dad loves them now.

 

[D_Chaumbrelayne_Copprehead]

This just occurred to me. Maybe Mom is trying to make sense of it, and is thinking about stuff that other people might want to do or feel urges for that she doesn't. I just jumped to MY judgment that Mom thinks being hooked on female muff divers is addictive like drugs can be.

 

[Lex]

My sister is a homosexual. Recently my mom told her that she loves her no matter what, but wishes that she weren't gay. She compared the situation to drugs... If a loving mom has a child who is a drug addict, then they still love that child, but of course they wish for them not to be on drugs. My sister did not accept what my mom said to her, and they got into a huge fight that most likely damaged their relationship forever.

Any insight?

I have had pretty much the same experience with my father once I came out to him. No one can ever express the pain that a parent's rejection (And this WAS a rejection) can cause. Half-assed acceptance IS rejection by default.

...
The majority of homosexuals have had family members make these kind of comments. Our parents are of a different generation and lets face it, want grandchildren. ...

Some gay men and women HAVE children. I do. So, having grandkids was not the issue for my dad. It's not so simple as having kids--many gay men and women do just that.

You do seem to be missing the point that she did say she would love your sister no matter what. I think this is should be focused on more than anything said out of ignorance.

You seem to be missing the point and the mom's statement basically said--I wish you were not who you are, but since I had you, I will love you. Her daughter can't change the fact that she is gay. Many parents internalize "fault" when they are told that a child is gay. This should not result in a rejection of the child.

QFT. More on that in a moment...But still, I think the "different generation and different culture" is just an excuse, and underscores the fact that such conditional love for a child really is not love at all. If my Mom, coming from the background and generation she did, could accept me, I don't really see how any other parent would have such a difficult time with it.

Word. My mom always told me--"My love for you is infinite and unconditional." When I told her I was gay, she told me that she accepted the challenge of loving me MORE to make up for the fact that much of the world would reject me.

 

[SilverSoldier]

I didn't choose my orientation, which technically is bi. I'm in a gay relationship, so now that makes me gay. I was married for 24 years.

It would have been so much easier just being hetero. All my life dreams were about being a "normal" husband and dad. We went to church, we wanted to be the average American family. Being anything but hetero was a HUGE risk, a huge draw back, bringing shame, retribution, vengence, hatred, prejudice, persecution, etc.

I did not choose to be bi. It's been a horrific inconvenience. Church people have already burned me to hell. I lost friends and family. But having gone through all of that, I have regained a huge number of wonderful people in my life, including my two adult kids, family, and new friends.

My kids have accepted me for who I really am. I have accepted them for who they really are. They are fabulous human beings.

What I think is sad is that so many people believe the sexual preference is a choice like taking drugs. That's such a horrible comparison and has nothing to do with the subject.

While I feel sad for your sister and mother that their relationship is now damaged, I feel hopeful that you will be there for her. Unconditional love is just acceptance. That's all. Love without judgment. Love without conditions of behavior. If your sister is a good person, which I'm sure she is, then there is no reason why she shouldn't be loved and adored by everyone. Hopefully your mom will see that in time.

I wish you and your family well.

 

[DC_DEEP]

I didn't choose my orientation, which technically is bi. I'm in a gay relationship, so now that makes me gay. I was married for 24 years.

It would have been so much easier just being hetero. All my life dreams were about being a "normal" husband and dad. We went to church, we wanted to be the average American family. Being anything but hetero was a HUGE risk, a huge draw back, bringing shame, retribution, vengence, hatred, prejudice, persecution, etc.

I did not choose to be bi. It's been a horrific inconvenience. Church people have already burned me to hell. I lost friends and family. But having gone through all of that, I have regained a huge number of wonderful people in my life, including my two adult kids, family, and new friends.

Thanks, SilverSoldier. This is the part that so many bigots just don't get. It isn't a choice. Why in the world would anyone choose such a difficult path?

I actually had one of those "hateful-churchy-types" ask me when & why I chose to be gay. She just about shit her granny-panties when I turned the question back on her, and asked her when she made the conscious decision to be straight, rather than gay. She gave me a shocked look.

"I've always been straight."
"Bingo. I've always been gay. I didn't make a choice, any more than you did."
"Well, you choose to act on it, and it's wrong."
"I have no intention of living my life alone just because you say I should."
"You could always marry a woman."
"So could you."

That ended the conversation.

 

[Northland]

My sister is a homosexual. Recently my mom told her that she loves her no matter what, but wishes that she weren't gay. She compared the situation to drugs... If a loving mom has a child who is a drug addict, then they still love that child, but of course they wish for them not to be on drugs. My sister did not accept what my mom said to her, and they got into a huge fight that most likely damaged their relationship forever.

Any insight?

Comparing sexuality to drug addiction is nuts. They are different animals entirely. As to the possibility of the two mending the relationship, only time will tell.

For myself, my sexuality was not an issue for most within the family. The only exception was my mother. Hers was not in an open disapproval or anger. Instead, she just cut me off. My phone calls were short-she would always have something to do- this from a woman who rarely left the apartment. Through another source (my beloved grandfather), it was revealed that she had major concerns.

Firstly, she thought she had made this happen through various methods-moving me as a baby from one country to another, seperating me from my father at that time, even the time she became angry and tied a kerchief on my head when I had lost my hat. It was an extensive list, which included not allowing me to play little league baseball. I had to explain to her, that, no, as powerful as she wanted to be, I had always desired men.

Secondly, she was concerned of how others would react to me and what would be my lot in life. She sensed that the world was strongly against men who didn't marry and make children. And how would the world react to me, as a man who also sought the companionship of women? If it was only men, then blah, blah, blah,blah... But women too? I would surely be deemed worse than even the terrible man who had a 'person change'-her term for a gender/sex change. In her way of thinking (and she voiced it) I would become a beggar in the street to get food, clothing or shelter and constantly be under arrest. Even my college education did nothing to stop these thoughts.

Thirdly, she was upset at the reflection which this would have upon her-she was a wee bit narcissistic. Her friends would blame her and then abandon her if I were to become involved with a man. Of course when I was in my teens and got a girl pregnant she had those same concerns- as I said, she was a bit narcissistic. In retaliation I showed up at my brother's wedding with a man (my brother and his bride knew this would happen and had no issue with it). My mother pursed her lips at the reception and glared at me. Everyone else greeted me and my boyfriend warmly.

Eventually, we learned to get along again, although it was never perfect-then again, it never had been that wonderful. Hopefully your sister and mother will fare better and repair the tear that this has caused.

 

[Bbucko]

All this talk about generational differences is more than a little disingenuous, I think. The Stonewall Riots happened in 1969: nearly fifty years ago.

Oklahoma or not, how far under that rock can one live for fifty years and not have at least heard that gay men and women have picked up a smidgen of self-esteem in the intervening time?

I came out gradually in my teens, beginning in 1975. By the time I told my mom in 1977 (at the age of 17), her first response was: "Do you think I'm blind?"; if not exactly cheerful and embracing, she was at the very least pragmatic and realistic.

As the eldest of three, and her only son, her response to my coming out was pretty predictable, and after a brief discussion everything was more or less accepted.

But for my sister, who is two years younger than I, the reaction was very different. When my sister came out bisexual (but predominantly lesbian) in the early 80s, my mom acted as if she'd been hit with a hammer, and it took years before she could embrace reality with the same pragmatic attitude.

My father, who was very much the quarterback/fratboy stereotype (and extremely conservative politically) never had any issues with either one of our comings-out, much to his credit.

 

[lafever]

My sister is a homosexual. Recently my mom told her that she loves her no matter what, but wishes that she weren't gay. She compared the situation to drugs... If a loving mom has a child who is a drug addict, then they still love that child, but of course they wish for them not to be on drugs. My sister did not accept what my mom said to her, and they got into a huge fight that most likely damaged their relationship forever.

Any insight?

I'd be happy if my daughter turned out gay, i know she'd be takken care of. Plus, i would't have to clean my guns everytime she brought another boy home.
chris

 

[B_CarmenSS]

It was tough for my dad to accept it, but i was always daddys little girl, so he wasnt like mad at me or yelling at all, it was just hard for both of us, cause my mom had just died and I didnt know how she would stand on the issue.. but now Im with a guy, so my dad's ecstatic, and leland and my dad hang out all the time, im happy the only two men in my life get along so well, I just wish they didnt play golf so much, its so boring..zzzzzzzzzzzz, lol.

 

[DC_DEEP]

All this talk about generational differences is more than a little disingenuous, I think. The Stonewall Riots happened in 1969: nearly fifty years ago.

Right again, Bbucko. And even beyond that, the other point I've been trying to make about the "generational difference" argument is that there are many from "that generation" and from very sheltered, religious backgrounds, who use their noggins and understand. There are others from nearly identical backgrounds who just close their eyes, grit their teeth, stamp their feet, and scream, "I'll never accept it."

I think it's within anyone's ability to accept their homosexual children. I just think that too many aren't willing to.

 

[JustAsking]

There are some wonderful thoughts expressed on this thread. Mine is not so wonderful, I think.

I am afraid that the mom is a victim of everything that is bad about religion. Living in the Bible belt, there is a good possiblity that her opinion about homosexuality is based on the teachings of her religion. If it is a fundamentalist or even just a conservative Christian church that she goes to, she has been pretty much indoctrinated into thinking that homosexuality is unnatural, against God's will, and completely a matter of choice.

The mom's analogy to drug use is the biggest giveaway. The saddest thing is that within Christianity, which teaches unconditional forgiveness, sects can form that hold a legalistic and ignorant form of morality over and above every other value.

According to the Good Samaritan parable, Jesus' position on this is that the unclean, unholy, Samaritan terrorist's act of compassion trumps the attempts of the holy men to maintain their moral purity without question.

So this is not just a case of an older generation's response to this issue. That gayness is only a choice, and a sinful one at that, is actively being taught aggressively to each new generation that grows up under Christian fundamentalism.

Fortunately, this is not the case in most of the mainstream Christian denominations.

 

[DC_DEEP]

But still, JA, that's just an excuse. That's why I used my Mom as an example - because she did grow up in fundamentalist baptist doctrine. She simply chose not to accept what the church taught her about homosexuality, because she knew me better than that. I even asked her about that very issue once. She told me,

"I know the bible is supposed to be inerrant, and the word of god. But there must have been some things put there by man, because I know you are good, and I know that god would not have created you to be something he despised."

 

[NCbear]

Often, we come out after having grieved the losses implied. That process can take a long time. To expect parents to immediately be at the place it took so long to arrive is not realistic or fair. I think the bigger question is whether Mom wants her daughter in her life. If so, she will have to work on understanding and tact and it could take several years. It did with mine. She may also need to reach out in some way.
Dave

I'm 38, about ready to turn 39, and it took my mother 20 years--from when I told her I'm gay the summer after I turned 18 until about 6-7 months ago--to even consider welcoming my partner into the family.

She's not fully there yet, but at least the door is now open. Maybe being estranged from every one of her children because of her (in general) bad parenting has made her realize that she needs to be receptive when one of her children wants to reach out, emotionally, to her.

NCbear (who has one gay brother and two straight ones, both of whom tend to approach heterosexuality a bit oddly--one, though a complete antisocial geek, goes through women like I go through Kleenex, while the other, who's effeminate as hell but more conservative than, say, Dick Cheney, married a neoconservative home-schooler and has had SEVEN children with her)

 

[DC_DEEP]

NCbear (who has one gay brother and two straight ones, both of whom tend to approach heterosexuality a bit oddly--one, though a complete antisocial geek, goes through women like I go through Kleenex, while the other, who's effeminate as hell but more conservative than, say, Dick Cheney, married a neoconservative home-schooler and has had SEVEN children with her)

"Dudes, it is SO cool! My dad's doing my teacher!"