low libido/low testosterone (personal update)

[Meniscus]

There have been several threads on this forum about low libido, low testosterone, and testosterone replacement therapy.

As I stated in those threads, my libido went away about 2.5 years ago (approx. July 2006). At first I thought it was stress. After that stressful period ended, I waited patiently for my libido to come back. It didn't. Finally, in Spring 2007, I told my doctor what was going on. He checked my testosterone level (355) and declared them normal.

I kept complaining, and about a year later, he tested my levels again (304) and referred me to an endocrinologist.

It tooks months to get an appointment to see the endocrinologist. After 3 appointments and lots of tests (testosterone, estrogen, estradiol, cortisol, ACTH, growth hormone, etc., etc.) he declared everything to be normal and sent me back to my regular physician. This time the blood samples were drawn at 7:30 a.m., when hormone levels are at their highest. (Previously they had been drawn late morning/early afternoon.) This time, my testosterone was 460.

Today I saw my new regular physician. (My old physician left the practice.) My new physician is a gay man who is a specialist in men's health and gay health issues, has a background in psychiatry, and formerly taught at Harvard Medical School.

He disagreed with the endocrinologist and said that my T levels are quite low for a man my age. He essentially agreed with what Dave NoCal said in this post...

http://www.lpsg.org/57168-young-low-libido-has-happen.html#post941715

...that having a T level within the normal range, which is quite broad, doesn't mean that they are normal for ME. He said if a man has symptoms of low testosterone, he probably has low testosterone (for him) and that if we had a record of my T levels before my libido went away, they would probably have been a lot higher than what they are now; what is normal for me could be as high at 800 or 900.

So I start testosterone replacement therapy tomorrow.

I'm hopeful yet cautious. I want the TRT to work, but I'm worried that it won't.

 

[SpeedoMike]

trust your MD and hang on a little longer for the results. no need to fret.

 

[kaczynski]

I actually went through a very similar experience recently but opted not to receive the treatment because I'm nervous about the negative side effects.

 

[Dave NoCal]

Meniscus,

First of all, I LOVE BEING RIGHT!

Congratulations on perservering. What type of replacement are you going to be using? Gel? Injections? Or maybe he is trying the pituitary stimulus route by using hCG.

My guess is that you will get a quick positive response, especially from gel as it gets right into your system. However, some guys don't respond well to gel for reasons that are not clear. Shots are pretty reliable but sometimes need scheduling adjustments to minimize the highs and lows. Gel, when it works well most closely mimics natural rhythms but some don't like having to apply every day, waiting for drying time, and avoiding getting it on others. It is also more expensive. With shots, some guys get dosed every two or even three weeks. This is far from optimal but done on the premise that it minimizes doctor visits. With the shots, half life is six days, more or less, so self-administered smaller doses on a weekly basis works out pretty well.

I've used all three approaches and find T shots on a weekly basis most convenient but like the way I felt on hCG the best.

I wish you every success in this and, again, congratulations on sticking to your guns.

Dave

 

[D_Portelay Porquesword]

Hang in there Meniscus. I hope everything goes very well for you.

 

[Meniscus]

Thanks, guys.

Dave, in answer to your question, we're going try gel first, assuming my insurance covers it. (I won't know until I go to the pharmacy tomorrow to pick it up.) If it's not covered we'll try something else, depending on what my insurance covers.

My doctor said I should see fairly quick results, and told me to pay attention to my moods and to notify him if I experience mood swings, particularly feelings of anger/aggression, and to watch out for testicular shrinkage. If either of those things happen, it could be an indication that the dose is wrong or that TRT is not right for me.

I wish you every success in this and, again, congratulations on sticking to your guns.

Well, several times over the past couple of years I've come close to giving up and resigning myself to a life without passion or pleasure, and I probably would have if it hadn't been for you and other guys on this forum sharing their stories of experiences very similar to mine, including how they eventually found a treatment that worked for them. Saying "thanks" doesn't seem like enough, but thanks!

I can't get too excited yet, though. I still don't know if it's going to work. But even if it doesn't, I appreciate the support.

 

[B_pinoyurge]

maybe you have to be conscious of what you eat

 

[Dave NoCal]

It is going to work. It may take some fiddling, but it will work.
Dave

 

[Eisenhower]

Man, keep us posted on your journey. I'm in much the same situation and I had a urologist and endocrinologist tell me I was "fine" with testosterone scores of 235 the first time and 434 the second. I'm 37, the same as you. I finally found a true hormone specialist but had to travel to CA to see him. He's diagnosed me with "Adrenal Fatigue" and nutritional deficiencies, so we're working on it but he says he might want to do Test Replacement in the future.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[fak_et]

If your hormones are out of whack and you get your TRT optimized (may take some time to get dosage, application, dosage, and the kinks worked out), you will feel like superman again.

I had low test for a little while but mine went back to normal eventually. and i can tell you it was a world of difference between a low number (very low edge of normal) and a high number which im back to now.

 

[STYLYUNG]

I have been on testosterone injections for over fourteen years, At first the injections were every month. Then the time was reduced to every twenty-one days. Now the injections are every fourteen days, and have been for the past year or so. Mood swings? I'm extra happy when a hand-job is necessary to reduce my libido. I have been "extra happy" about three times this week. I shouldn't admit to my age---but I will. My eighty-ninth birthday comes up in May of '09. Testosterone injects plus a five mg. pill of cialis every four days really works wonders! Thus my user-name; stylyung.

( Some pesonal history if you question my age: Signed up for social security in 1938, age 18. Entered the Army at age 21 for WW2 in early 1942, served four years. From Normandy in France following that guy Patton part way to Adolph's haus in Austria May 7, 1945. One of a few that came home still a virgin---no STD worrys either.)

 

[D_Odipherous Pitts]

Everyone is different. We are not all the same. Yet Doctors try to fit us into "average" values and can't seem to understand that we are individuals and what is average to you may not be average to me.

I always had a VERY high libido until I started approaching 50 and then I started to notice a rapid decline. When I was younger I would fuck a knot hole in a tree if it looked good!

When I went for my yearly physical a few years back I discussed the situation about my concern of low test levels with my doctor and he said it didn't look like I suffered from low testosterone but he would check my blood levels for it.

The "average" for my age was something like 275-750. I was 1009! WTF? What was it when I was 21? 5000? If I was over 1000 and felt a big drop MY normal average must have been well over 1000. The next year it dropped to 900.

I started TRT and it has helped, although I am not using a lot it does help me to feel normal or above "average" for me.

nuff said...

 

[ZDong]

I had a similar problem early last year and it turned out to be related to my taking Propecia. I'd been on it for a six months and my interest in sex was fading a lot.

Finally I checked with a doctor who ran a bunch of tests and found my T counts were low. He told me to hop off Propecia for a while. He said that some men just don't do well with that particular drug and that if taken too long it can really put a long-term damper on your fun.

I stopped right away. It took about a month before I started feeling some sparks of interest again, and about three months before I was back to my normal self. We retested and my levels were back on track. So I had to make a decesion on the supplement. Finally, I came to the conclusion that I'd rather be Captain Picard with an erection than Captain Comeover without one.

Obviously your situation is more serious than mine was, but I share just in case anyone is on Propecia and has been wondering why they've lost interest. I'm not saying that Propecia is bad (I'm not a doctor), and I'm not saying that just because you have a low libido and you're on Propecia that it's the problem. I'm just saying that Propecia doesn't seem to be a good fit for everyone.

Good luck to you during this!

 

[Eisenhower]

I second that. I was on Propecia for a year and a half in my late 20s and it started impacting my ability to get an erection. I had to stop taking it. My urologist told me based on the number of men he sees who have problems with Propecia, the reported "1 to 2%" of men suffering sexual side effects is drastically understated. Propecia is targetted at messing with your hormones, and it does it all too well. For me, I wouldn't touch the stuff with a ten foot pole (or even an 8 inch one)!

 

[Meniscus]

Hey guys,

Thanks for sharing your stories and for offering your support. I haven't been ignoring your responses, but I wanted to wait to post again until I had something meaningful to report.

I've been using Androgel for 3 weeks now. For the first couple of weeks, the only change I noticed was that I was waking up with erections, not just in the morning, but whenever I fell asleep (e.g., if I nodded off at night watching TV, I'd wake up with a big boner). I still didn't have any desire for sexual activity, but I took it as a good sign.

A week ago today I was just hanging out at home, watching TV, and I found my mind wandering. I don't even know what thought triggered it, but my penis started to stir and I felt a familiar tingling in my balls. Subconsciously, I reached down and gave myself a casual rub. This went on for a couple of minutes before I even realized what was happening.

I wasn't sure if I should try masturbating or not. I didn't want to rush myself. But the sexual tension continued to increase and it was like my penis was saying, "Hey! Pay attention to me." So I did.

It was far from the best orgasm in my life, but it was good, and it was the most satisfying orgasm I'd had in a long time. It felt good to feel that way again. Over the past week, I've realized that what I've been missing these past couple of years wasn't just the sexual feelings that lead up to orgasm, but the calm feeling of blissful relaxation that comes afterwards.

Later that day I went to the local gay bar, and found myself getting turned on by watching two guys kissing. That was fun.

In general, I'm finding myself more responsive to various forms of stimuli, not just sexual. I'm not sure how to explain. Throughout the day, I feel subtle physiological changes in response to my thoughts, feelings, and things happening externally. For example, when I'm pleased to see someone, my body responds. Throughout the day, I feel these little electro-chemical surges in response to various stimuli. I hadn't realized that those kinds of feelings were missing until I started having them again.

Some, not all, of these feelings are in my genitals. It's weird feeling all this motion in your pants when you're not used to it. My penis swells up from time to time, in response to various thoughts, feelings, and memories. My scrotum is busy, too, contracting and relaxing and often feeling sort of sensitive and tingly (a familiar feeling that often presages horniness.)

I'm trying not to rush things, but I've masturbated several times over the past week. My erections are strong, my stamina is good, my ejaculations are probably a little bit stronger than they used to be, and overall it's very pleasurable--it's exciting again.

I don't feel like superman, but I never did before, either. I've always been kind of a mellow, low-energy kinda guy, and that hasn't changed. I don't feel any desire to start working out (although I should) or to run marathons or anything like that. I don't expect my belly to disappear and big muscles to start popping out, at least not without me putting some extra effort in (you know, diet & exercise--blech). But I do feel like I'm on my way to being my old self again.

One concern I have is that my testicles do seem a little smaller. But I'm not sure that they are really smaller, or if it's just a perception. Knowing that it's a possible side-effect, my mind could be playing tricks on me.

I have a follow-up appointment with my doctor in a couple of weeks, at which time we'll check my T levels again. I'm not optimistic enough to think that my problem is solved and everything will be fine from now on, but I'm hopeful that we're on the right track and that I'll see continued improvement with this treatment. Wish me luck.

 

[Meniscus]

Man, keep us posted on your journey. I'm in much the same situation and I had a urologist and endocrinologist tell me I was "fine" with testosterone scores of 235 the first time and 434 the second. I'm 37, the same as you. I finally found a true hormone specialist but had to travel to CA to see him. He's diagnosed me with "Adrenal Fatigue" and nutritional deficiencies, so we're working on it but he says he might want to do Test Replacement in the future.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Someone else here suggested to be that my adrenal glands could be "burned out" so I asked the edocrinologist about that. He did test my cortisol and a bunch of other stuff. After the first test, my cortisol levels were high, so they did some additional tests looking for Cushing syndrome, but everything came back normal.

Given that I do have a stressful job, and over the past few years have weathered several periods of chronic high stress, I can't help but to wonder what role, if any, stress plays in all of this.

It's still a mystery as to why my body isn't producing enough testosterone on it's own. Although I'm glad the TRT seems to be working so far, I'd rather not need it at all. I'd rather find out why my body isn't producing enough T, and cure that. Alas, medicine doesn't seem to have advanced that far yet.

 

[Meniscus]

...My eighty-ninth birthday comes up in May of '09. Testosterone injects plus a five mg. pill of cialis every four days really works wonders! Thus my user-name; stylyung.

Wow, more power to you. It's a bit off-topic, but what amazes me most is that a man your age has a computer and knows how to use it, to the point of finding and participating in online communities like lpsg. My parents, who are in their 60s, still have trouble with the basics, like e-mail. They have some difficulties reading the text on screen, but they also have trouble making sense of all the graphics, links, and "buttons." (Hell, even I have trouble with that sometimes.)

I'm curious about what a guy your age makes of a forum like this. I can't imagine my parents or grandparents understanding it at all. I think a lot of young people assume (sometimes correctly, sometimes not) that their elders are too conservative and old-fashion to understand currently trends and innovations, especially things like online communities, Internet porn, and cyber-sex. What do you think of all that?

 

[vince]

A couple of thoughts occurred to me reading your thread.

Stress can be a libido killer and if you drink more than a couple of cups of coffee a day it's not good for your adrenal glands. My naturopath told me to cut it way down and my adrenals came back to normal.

If you smoke, you should quit. When I quit, my libido when through the roof.

If you can bring yourself to exercise, it would be the best thing you could do. I really notice a difference between being exercising and not. The hardest thing about exercise is thinking you can't or don't have time. Once you start and keep at it for a month, it becomes routine and even addictive. Going for a short run in the morning energizes my whole day and I sleep more soundly. It's well known that even moderate exercise boosts the endocrine system. I'm surprised (or maybe not) that your doc hasn't put you on a program.

Those Androgel paks really work don't they? I tried one of my brother's and I was unbelievably horny and tense for a few hours.

 

[2322]

And another thing. Low normal is not normal! If you ever get a low normal result, get therapy or go elsewhere to get it. Low normal has been the biggest joke in secondary hypogonadism since they coined the term.

 

[Bullyfit]

Glad to see you didn't give in to the doctors order of nothing wrong. It happened to me as well. No that you have this but-there is a condition called andro-pause- which is like menapause that women have. It can happen at any age-just like all the past posts mention we all have a different "normal". It's when the male body stops or doesn't produce as enough hormones for our body. You can google it for further info. I have been on Test injections for about two years as well as hcg because my boys got a little smaller. I had never lost my sex drive but I was exhausted over nothing and just felt not right. Had changed my diet and did all kinds of natural things, but sometimes science has it's place for health. It's important for men to make sure that our hormones are on the right levels-especially our testoserone-it help rebuild muscles including the heart muscle. I feel awesome and can cut glass with my cock!!! Keep UP the good work and watch what you eat.