low libido/low testosterone (personal update)

[Smartalk]

Adrenal Fatigue test are done on your saliva and taken over a 24 hour period to evaluate your bodies natural circadian levels. Blood tests do not detect this the same. as saliva.

I natural rhythms were totally out of sync and highly elevated the doctor in question put me on DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) what a difference it made plus I was taking Testosterone as well.

You need to have it check out with a doctor who specialises in this field, DON'T just go out and buy it (not available in the UK) only through registered pharmacists.

 

[Meniscus]

Hey Vince, thanks for taking the time to reply and offer your support. I appreciate it. At the risk of seeming ungrateful (I'm not) I'm about to make a bunch of excuses for my bad habits so I ask in advance for your patience and forgiveness.

Stress can be a libido killer and if you drink more than a couple of cups of coffee a day it's not good for your adrenal glands. My naturopath told me to cut it way down and my adrenals came back to normal.

Tell me more. Although my stress levels aren't nearly as bad as when this problem began, I do have a stressful job. I typically drink 2-3 cups of coffee and/or tea a day (sometimes more, sometimes less). I've tried t cut back but the problem is that a) I really like coffee and tea and b) I don't much care for other beverages.

If you smoke, you should quit. When I quit, my libido when through the roof.

I quit years ago.

If you can bring yourself to exercise, it would be the best thing you could do...

Yeah, I know. I'm not gonna do it. Many, many times over the years I've tried to get in the habit of exercising. I've never lasted more than a couple of weeks. I just can't seem to summon the energy/motivation/willpower/self-discipline--whatever it takes. At this point I've pretty much given up on trying.

The hardest thing about exercise is thinking you can't or don't have time.

Yeah but, see, I really don't have the time. I wake up at 6:40. I hit the "snooze" button until about 7:30. I get up, shower, dress, shave, and leave for work. I'm 5-15 min. late every day. I eat breakfast at work. I eat out for lunch almost every day, because I don't have time to make lunch in the morning (and I wouldn't know what to make anyway--I'm terribly uncreative about that sort of thing). Not only is eating out for lunch terrible for my wallet, it's terrible for my waistline (restaurant portions are too big, and it's not usually the healthiest food, anyway).

I usually work until 6 or 6:30. By then I'm hungry and tired. I suppose I could work out then, but that sounds awful. At that point, all I want to do is go home. Sometimes I have to go to the grocery store or run other errands first.

So I get home anywhere between 6:30 and 8:00. I may relax a bit (possibly by visiting lpsg) before making dinner. I may have a drink (beer, wine, scotch, martini) before and/or with dinner. Dinner is often not until 8:00, sometimes not until 9 or 10 (again, not good for my weight).

If I watch TV, I'm likely to fall asleep on the couch, wake up at 2:00 a.m., get up, and go to bed. If I do something mentally active (e.g., surfing the Internet), I'm up well past midnight, often until 2:00 a.m.

In either case, I don't go to bed properly until 2:00 a.m. So when my alarm clock goes off in the morning, I've had less than 5 hours of sleep, even though I may have had a "nap" on the couch before going to bed.

Then the vicious cycle begins again.

I know I need to go to bed earlier, get up early, eat healthier, and exercise. I don't know how to do it.

Once you start and keep at it for a month, it becomes routine and even addictive.

Everyone says that. I've never been able to stick with it long enough to find out if it's true.

Going for a short run in the morning energizes my whole day and I sleep more soundly.

When I'm driving to work in the morning I always see people out running or walking their dogs. I always wonder what those people do for a living.

It's well known that even moderate exercise boosts the endocrine system. I'm surprised (or maybe not) that your doc hasn't put you on a program.

I've had 4 doctors in the past 8 years, not because I choose to change doctors but because they keep leaving the area. Every doctor I've had has asked me if I exercise and I say no. They've all suggested that exercise would be really beneficial for me, but they've never pushed the issue. I think they can tell from my attitude that I'm not going to do it.

Those Androgel paks really work don't they? I tried one of my brother's and I was unbelievably horny and tense for a few hours.

What did you do that for? And why is your brother taking Androgel? Maybe feeling "unbelievably horny" is the effect Androgel has on someone who doesn't really need it. In my case, I felt the effects relatively slowly, after taking it for a couple of weeks. I feel that my libido is approaching "normal" (for me). If I started feeling excessively horny I'd probably wonder if I should reduce my dose.

 

[Dave NoCal]

Meniscus, this is definitely progress and I am truly happy for you. You clearly know some of the life changes you could make to enjoy greater physical, and probably emotional, well-being. If your life chioces are having you feeling this way at thirty-seven, where will these choices get you by age fifty-seven?

Still, you commented that the reason for your low testosterone levels are unknown and my take is that your life-style is not enough to account for them. I have written before that I have Lyme disease, which is endemic in your part of the country, and can say that Lyme can really disrupt hormonal status. I am in contact with a lot of Lymies and can say that I know of no males, age sixteen to sixty, who have tested with mormal levels of testosterone. My urologist, who is at UCSF, believes that the Lyme has infected or in some other way disrupted my pituitary gland because hCG brought my testosterone levels up into the 400s from the 200s.

If you have become multi-symptomatic over the last several years, this might be worth investigating even though all the controvery surroundig Lyme makes getting evaluated and treated quite a challenge. I will post a list of symptoms that many people with Lyme have quite a few of. At the time of diagnosis I had about thirty. With gradual onset, my physicians and I had explained them away as "stress," advancing age, depression, hypochondria, asthma, chronic bronchitis, BPH....... With treatment, I am usually more or less sysmptomatic and went from having trouble walking uphill to building my own house.

Please think about this along with seriously considering lifestyle/health trajectory.

Dave

 

[Dave NoCal]

Please see my previous post.
Dave

DIAGNOSTIC CHECKLIST

LYME BORRELIOSIS DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA RELATIVE VALUE:
Tick exposure in an endemic region
1
Historical facts and evolution of symptoms consistent with Lyme
2
Systemic signs & symptoms consistent with Bb infection (other potential diagnoses excluded):

Single system. e.g. monoarthritis
1
Two or more systems. e.g. monoarthritis and facial palsy
2
Erythema migrans, physician confirmed
7
Acrodermatitis Chronica Atrophicans, biopsy confirmed
7
Seropositivity
3
Seroconversion on paired sera
4
Tissue microscopy, silver stain
3
Tissue microscopy, monoclonal immunofluorescence
4
Culture positivity
4
B. burgdorferi antigen recovery
4
B. burgdorferi DNA/RNA recovery
4


DIAGNOSIS
Lyme Borreliosis Highly Likely
7 or above
Lyme Borreliosis Possible
5-6
Lyme Borreliosis Unlikely
4 or below



I suggest that when using these criteria, you state Lyme Borreliosis is "unlikely", "possible", or "highly likely" based upon the following criteria"- then list the criteria.


SYMPTOM CHECK LIST

This is not meant to be used as a diagnostic scheme, but is provided to streamline the office interview. Note the format- complaints referable to specific organ systems are clustered to better display multisystem involvement.

NAME_______________________________________DATE__________________

RISK PROFILE (PLEASE CHECK)
Tick infested area__
Frequent outdoor activities__
Hiking__
Fishing ___
Camping ___
Gardening ___
Hunting ___
Ticks noted on pets ___
Do you remember being bitten by a tick? No__ Yes__ When? _________
Do you remember having the "bull's eye rash"? No__ Yes__
Any other rash? No__ Yes__
Have you had any of the following? (CIRCLE ALL YES ANSWERS)
1. Unexplained fevers, sweats, chills, or flushing
2. Unexplained weight change--loss or gain
3. Fatigue, tiredness, poor stamina
4. Unexplained hair loss
5. Swollen glands: list areas_______________________________
6. Sore throat
7. Testicular pain/pelvic pain
8. Unexplained menstrual irregularity
9. Unexplained milk production: breast pain
10.Irritable bladder or bladder dysfunction
11.Sexual dysfunction or loss of libido
12.Upset stomach
13.Change in bowel function-constipation, diarrhea
14.Chest pain or rib soreness
15.Shortness of breath, cough
16.Heart palpitations, pulse skips, heart block
17.Any history of a heart murmur or valve prolapse?
18.Joint pain or swelling: list joints________________________
19.Stiffness of the joints, neck, or back
20.Muscle pain or cramps
21.Twitching of the face or other muscles
22.Headache
23.Neck creeks and cracks, neck stiffness, neck pain
24.Tingling, numbness, burning or stabbing sensations, shooting pains
25.Facial paralysis (Bell's Palsy)
26.Eyes/Vision: double, blurry, increased floaters, light sensitivity
27.Ears/Hearing: buzzing, ringing, ear pain, sound sensitivity
28.lncreased motion sickness, vertigo, poor balance
29.Lightheadedness, wooziness
30.Tremor
31.Confusion, difficulty in thinking
32.Diffculty with concentration, reading
33.Forgetfuiness, poor short term memory
34.Disorientation: getting lost, going to wrong places
35.Difficulty with speech or writing
36.Mood swings, irritability, depression
37.Disturbed sleep-too much, too little, early awakening
38.Exaggerated symptoms or worse hangover from alcohol

 

[midlifebear]

Your testicles may, indeed, be a bit smaller after beginning testosterone therapy. After all, one of their main jobs has been eliminated: the production of testosterone. It's important to note that testosterone therapy carries many of the same risks as those who take steroid injections for severe allergies, lupus, and any number of autoimmune diseases. After a while, the endocrine system can become completely fucked up -- permanently. Therefore, it's VERY important you have a board certified endocrinologist watch over you and take regular blood tests to watch your progress.

Another thing to worry about is, since you're so young, is to begin having a PSA test along with your regular blood panel work. Testosterone therapy can trigger earlier than expected problems with your prostate. Testosterone replacement therapy can lead to developing prostate cancer years before a person normally would think it possible. This is also a well-known side effect of growth hormone injections and the steroids weight lifters use to bulk up their muscle mass. Just as long as you are aware of the risks and insist that your physician include a PSA test (even though you're not yet 40) is serious advice. They can nip the PC if caught early and save your prostate, then start you back on testosterone replacement therapy. Once you're clear of the cancer.

 

[MC1000]

Glad to hear you are finally getting help and it is working for you. I've been on Test replacement therapy now for little over 4 years. Within a few days I started seeing the same results you have, but it took about 4 to 5 months before I started to notice a real difference. I had been treated 10 years for depression. Once I got my T levels back up over 700 I was able to quick the anti-depression! My sex drive and stamina is back to a level I have not seen since my early 20's (I'm 47 now). The biggest thing I have noticed is an improvement in memory and clarity of though, and over all sense of well being. I was worried too about testicle shrinkage, but as of yet have not noticed any change in size. However, they do hang really low all the time now and they never did before. Just one word of warning. With the gels it is VERY easy to transfer T to other people. I was extremely careful while on the gels. Immediately washed hands after application, always kept my arms and sholders covered, and always showered before bed. I had a 3 year old son and wife to worry about. Six months in my son began to have some anger issues. As a precauction we had his T level tested. Total T level was 5.5 times higher than acceptable and free T was 3 times! I immedately switched to shot. Son's retest in 4 weeks and at 8 weeks showed normal levels. His anger issues went away too. We don't know if the T transfer was the cause of his issues (roid rage) or just odd timing, but at any rate that kind of exposure over a longer period of time could have been reaaly harmful. Anyway be careful. Transfer can happen easily, and it can be very harmful to others, espicallly young children and pregnant women. Keep us posted on your progress!

 

[MC1000]

To answer you questions as to why you levels are low....it could be a combination of many factors. Most common causes are stress or being overweight if you are under 50. Others can be medications, caffeine, too much physical activity (exhaustion), malnutrition, not enough physical activity, trauma to testicles, infections, sleep apnea, and the list goes on and on. Then there can be issues with thyroid, hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenals, and more. Then sometimes it is low and the cause is never known. Mine is due to a pituitary tumor and being overweight. What I am trying to say is if you have no other major symptoms and you respond well to the Test Replacement Therapy, don't get too wrapped up in trying to find the cause. Just find a good Endo who is willing to take into account how you FEEL and not just your test result numbers. It may take a little bit of searching, but they are out there. If your are unhappy with your treatment go online and search for testosterone replacement therapy and you'll find a few doctors keep popping up, Dr. John Crisler of Michigan, Dr. Shippman, Pennsylvainia I think, and Dr. Marino. If nothing else they all offer interesting info on our condition. Good Luck!

 

[Meniscus]

Hey Dave, thanks again. Although I have some of the symptoms of Lyme Disease (arthritis, neck pain/creaking/cracking, stiffness and soreness, heart palpitations, plus a few others), I've always assumed that that's what I get for being out of shape. My doctors are aware of all these symptoms and have never suggested Lyme Disease; they occasionally prod me to take better care of myself. They've said something very similar to what you said: "If you feel this way now, imagine how you're going to feel when you're 50-something." Heck, I don't think I'd even turned 30 yet before the first time I heard that from a doctor. I wish that were motivation enough, but it's not.

midlifebear, thanks for the scary information. I sincerely hope that the doctor who thinks I need TRT knows what he's doing. It seems to me that whether or not I continue with the TRT (as with any medical treatment), I'm taking a risk. Either I take the treatment and risk shrinking my balls and fucking up my endocrine system, or I don't take treatment and risk going through the rest of my life not only without a libido, but without any passion, excitement, or enthusiasm. At this point, I'm choosing to try the therapy and closely monitor the effects. So far, so good.

I've also got an appointment with a psychotherapist to make sure that there aren't any psychological issues at play. I've made no secret to my doctors that I've got a whole host of fears, doubts, anxieties, inhibitions, and regrets. But who the hell doesn't? When I was younger, I never expected my life to turn out like this, and I'm not quite sure how I got here. Decisions that seemed like a good idea at the time didn't pay off as well as I would have liked. Living life cautiously (fearfully?) may have kept me safe, but also kept me from exploring other options.

But my situation is hardly unique. At least I'm not trapped in a bad marriage or with a bunch of kids I never wanted. On the other hand, I'm alone and have no immediate support system. (If I were married and my partner were financially stable, I'd quite my job and take some time off until I found a better one. Maybe I'd even go back to school.)

MC1000, currently I live alone, so for the time being I don't have to worry about tranferring the T to other people. If/when that ever changes, I'll worry about it then. I'm glad to hear that TRT helped with your depression. My doctors tell my I'm dysthymic (i.e., I have chronic, low-grade depression). If I were to self-diagnose, I'd add anhedonia (i.e., the inability to experience pleasure). Unfortunately, I've had Bad reactions to every anti-depressant I've tried.

However, although I've had short bouts of depression before my libido problems began, the dysthymia started about 8 or 9 months after the libido problems began, and the anhedonia began a few months after that. I'm hoping that with TRT, the various depression symptoms I've been experiencing will decrease. Add to that psychotherapy and/or other lifestyle changes, and maybe I can't start feeling good again.

<Sigh> I feel like I'm whining too much, but don't judge me too harshly by what I've written in this thread. Y'all are seeing the worst side of me. I normally hold in all my negativity and try to be pleasant and interesting.

 

[SpeedoMike]

let me add a bit more to the discussion.

I have disabling depression/atypical bipolar disorder and have been on medication for many years. I'm not very responsive to antidepressants. it's very important to have a psychiatrist handle those meds. I also have a therapist who is able to notice trends in my behavior, which I often don't, and make the psychiatrist aware of them.

You and i are together on exercise. even my M.D.s have agreed there has been no noticeable improvement in my health from exercise. I've never had an endorphin rush in my life.

I assume you have been regularly tested for diabetes. it accounts for many of the symptoms you exhibit.

we won't discuss my libido...

 

[midlifebear]

SpeedoMike:

You're brave to "come out" about your depression. You get major points for that one. However, I really feel for you if you've never had an endorphin rush from steady cardio exercise. The carrot that keeps me still running five+ miles every other day is the fact I'll be rewarded with an elevated state of awareness that can sometimes last for an entire afternoon, if I'm lucky. I'm probably "addicted" to the sensation because I often dream of running when I sleep. My heart goes out to you guys.

Sr. Meniscus:

I didn't mean to add unnecessary alarm to an already bad situation. Just make sure you have your PSA levels checked along with everything else, even if your endocrinologist doesn't think it's necessary. A rise from 1.1 to 2.3 or 3.something is a good sign to have yourself checked for PC. It's reasonably easy to cure without major surgery, chemo and or radiation if caught in the early stages of Stage 1. So don't lose too much sleep over it.

For some reason (most likely genetics) when I turned 17 I could no longer get near horses, cats, practically all animal fur (except, oddly, dogs) and developed asthma. My GP would regularly give me Kenalog injections during the year which magically eliminated all my allergies and the asthma. But now it's well-documented that the steroid injections (Kenalog is a brand name) were artificially pumping my body full of stuff that my entire endocrine system wasn't creating enough of. Turns out that after a while the adrenal glands sort of quit working all together, shutting down production because they receive signals from the body that there's no need to produce natural steroid-like hormones because the body has too much artificial stuff flowing through the blood stream. Then the pineal gland starts behaving in a similar way and all Hell breaks loose. Fortunately, an endocrinologist found me in his waiting room one day and was able to stop any prolonged bad effects in my early 30's by weaning me off of the stuff. I now just avoid horses, cats, etc., and all those things that trigger allergic reactions and asthma. Medical science is leap years ahead regarding hormonal replacement therapy these days than it was back in the 1970's. It sounds like you know what you're doing. Best of luck and success.

 

[deww1011]

MC1000 thanks for sharing. What you said about memory and clarity hit hard. Fatigue and the inability to remember words and things that i can see but not say are right on with me. For years i have been tired and sleep poorly. Lately i get agitated and a sense of uncomfortableness for no real reason. Libido down , but i'm not overweight or in awful shape because of my work. I look bloated at times, figured it was age (42) and wondered if it could be adrenal or testosterone related. Sister had thyroid cancer and other sibling had low thyroid levels for a while. For years i was like a manic depressive, big outbursts of energy followed by major fatigue. Lately there are no outbursts of energy just tired. I guess time to do something. Thanks everyone

 

[Bbucko]

I've been on injectable TRT for a little over seven months, every two weeks. About ten years ago I used the gel, but can't say it ever did much for me. The shots, however, are amazing.

I gained twenty pounds, usually feel great, and wake up with morning wood for the first time in...forever.

It was one of the best decisions I've ever made. For me it was a combination of nearing 50 (just turned 49) and half a life living with HIV.

All the advice you've received here is excellent, my friend. Let us know how you progress.

 

[Dave NoCal]

So, Meniscus, how many of the thirty-eight do you have?
Dave

 

[Meniscus]

So, Meniscus, how many of the thirty-eight do you have?
Dave

Well, let's count.

3. Fatigue, tiredness, poor stamina (I have low-energy, but not so bad that I can't work 8+ hours a day.)
7. Testicular pain/pelvic pain (on and off for many years, but hasn't bothered me for the past 2 or 3 years)
11.Sexual dysfunction or loss of libido
13.Change in bowel function-constipation, diarrhea (This was a big problem a few years ago, but has gotten better. I got diagnosed with IBS.)
15.Shortness of breath, cough (on and off for several years, hasn't been a problem for a while)
16.Heart palpitations (There's a long story behind this.)
18.Joint pain or swelling: list joints (bursitis in my left hip)
19.Stiffness of the joints, neck, or back (arthritis in neck; neck and shoulders always stiff & sore)
20.Muscle pain or cramps (occasionally)
23.Neck creeks and cracks, neck stiffness, neck pain
24.Tingling, numbness, burning or stabbing sensations, shooting pains (yes a few years ago, but not so much in recent years)
26.Eyes/Vision: double, blurry, increased floaters, light sensitivity (floaters and blurry vision that's not completely correctable with glasses)
32.Diffculty with concentration, reading (sometimes)
36.Mood swings, irritability, depression
37.Disturbed sleep-too much, too little, early awakening (too little)

Let's see, how many is that...15. Is that a lot? I'm still doubtful that these things are an indication of Lyme Disease. All of these symptoms developed at different times, seemingly independently, and seem more likely to be explained by age, heredity, lack of exercise, eating habits, lack of sleep, and other bad habits on my part.

 

[Meniscus]

SpeedoMike, thanks for sharing your story. I wish you all the best as you continue to battle your depression and bipolar disorder.

You and i are together on exercise. even my M.D.s have agreed there has been no noticeable improvement in my health from exercise. I've never had an endorphin rush in my life.

No, neither have I. Is that unusual? I read somewhere just recently that it's normal to initially feel crappy when you start to exercise, especially if you are just starting an exercise program, but if you can work past that, then you start feeling good. I've never been able to reach that point where I start feeling good. Whenever I exercise, I start to feel lousy pretty quickly, and the longer I go, the worse I feel. If I push myself too far, it can take days to recover.

I assume you have been regularly tested for diabetes. it accounts for many of the symptoms you exhibit.

Yes, I've been checked several times for diabetes, thyroid problems, and heart problems.

Again, best of luck to you.