You're right, I should have said, straightforward rather than rigid. :wink:
:biggrin1:
I must say that degree of complete disclosure sounds like a form of hell to me, perhaps that shows me up for the selfish, secretive, emotionally unavailable prick I am :wink:,
It sounds like heaven to me! Definitely not selfish, secretive, etc on your behalf, just different. A kind of different I don't really understand :tongue:, but not necessarily bad.
but nonetheless I am who I am, and if my partner were unwilling to see that I need a small degree of psychological privacy no matter how much I love them and wish to share everything else about me with them then I don't think I could be in a relationship with them.
Ah see, it's the contract!! This is what I mean when I talk about a contract. The 'contract' is all about understanding and accepting what you've signed up for, living up to your end of the bargain, and not expecting the other person to change (although they inevitably will, just not in the ways you expect them to). It's not so much about some ideal, societal version of what is right or desirable, but a more personal sense of what is and isn't right for us. A person getting into a relationship with you needs to understand that you need psychological privacy, a person getting into a relationship with me needs to understand that I'm all about openness and sharing.
Oh don't get me wrong though, I'm not playing with definitions, cheating is cheating.
Except that not everyone agrees on what is and isn't cheating. I was just wondering if your psychological privacy theory impacted on how you personally saw it.
There's an intrinsic deal involved in this expectation of limited psychological privacy, and that is that you keep whatever you wish to keep private absolutely private. You must do everything in your power to keep it private and if you fail at that for whatever reason you need to be fully prepared for the consequences of failing to maintain your cordon sanitaire (so to speak).
That sounds like the kind of logic I would apply to it if I were to go in for the psychological privacy thing. Makes sense to me.
People cheat for untold reasons, and it's completely unreasonable to presume that anyone can maintain a spotless record of emotional or sexual probity over the course of a substantially long term relationship. If they do then you're fucking lucky, but I just don't believe it's the norm.
Some forms of cheating are deeply selfish, they aren't even about the person you happen to be cheating with. They're about something entirely personal and unrelated to anyone else or anything else. Sex is that deep rooted in our psychological makeup.
I totally agree with both these paragraphs, if you assume cheating to mean 'having sex with someone who is not part of your monogamous relationship'. I truly don't believe people evolved for very long term monogamy.
I DON'T agree if cheating is assumed to be 'breaking the rules of a contract (in my sense of the term) between you and another'. I believe it is possible for people to have long term relationships that do not include this kind of cheating, as long as the contract is appropriate and re-negotiable.
If you cheat and do everything in your power to keep it absolutely private and succeed in that and can cope (happily) with having secrets all your life, and you're partner is neither especially troubled or even aware that you may have one or two secrets nor ever troubled by your inability to maintain that absolute secrecy then I don't think you have done something which is objectively wrong.
I think this is a totally valid theory (sorry, brain not working and can't think of the word I want - theory will have to do), and I've known more than one person it would work for. Personally, I want to know! (No surprise there :tongue
. And not necessarily so I can end the relationship. There is a good chance I will be understanding about it, but I really truly do want to know. Apart from the fact that I just like to know stuff, I also feel that the person should give me the opportunity to decide if want to remain with them knowing that the contract has been broken. It may just be that the contract wasn't appropriate in the first place and that it needs re-negotiating.
I would have the same deal if I was ever to enter an open relationship. I wouldn't want to know all the little sexual details, but I'd want to know the basics - who, when, how often.
We're all human, we all do selfish and grubby things sometimes, anyone who says they never have is lying. The point is that you have to be able to do everything it takes for these selfish and grubby acts to effect no one but yourself. If you don't do that then you're an irresponsible and cruel, selfish, grubby pig. It's when your actions effect other people that your actions are fair game for moral judgement.
And since most people can't keep secrets terribly well (or don't even bother to try because their entire intention is to cause harm and hurt), and don't have the self discipline and regard for the feelings of those they love cheating is not to be recommended or excused.
Again, I agree, although I'm viewing it from a slightly different angle.
Thank you for explaining your view point further. I feel as though I have a better understanding of where you're coming from now :smile:.
if she finds out will she dump you?
you can philosophise on relationships if you like, guys, but that's the crux of the matter :tongue:
You sorta have a point there :biggrin1:.
