LPSG Members, is THIS law "RACIST"

Rikter8

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I didn't have a lot of money when I was having babies, and it really GALLED me to sit in waiting rooms with females who were getting their babies FREE, while I had to pay taxes AND more hospital fees than I could afford.

I have nothing against Latinos, as I know and have worked with many fine people. But I have everything against the INVASION (and rape) of our tax funded institutions and the sheer amount of crime that is perpetrated by the children of the illegal immigrants.

Before you judge our reaction to the invasion... live a little in our shoes...

Maybe you should come on over here and SEE our school districts getting utterly TRASHED by the sheer volume of kids who don't speak English, whose parents can't/don't help them in school, and who turn entire neighborhoods into gang-ridden slums.

Maybe you should SEE hospitals going broke and closing down because they were glutted by illegals who did not pay for services rendered.

Unless you live here and have experienced what the fuck is going on, don't judge our attempts to protect ourselves. It's about schools, hospitals, and the safety of our own children!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldnt agree with this more.
If they dont have a work permit, or an identification of some sort and contribute to the community that they are working in, then ship them back!
 

snoozan

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I didn't have a lot of money when I was having babies, and it really GALLED me to sit in waiting rooms with females who were getting their babies FREE, while I had to pay taxes AND more hospital fees than I could afford.

These services are available to anyone with financial need, and the income requirements aren't all that stringent. If you couldn't afford medical care, you could have looked into getting state aid. With that said, anyone who makes less than 40-50K a year reaps more benefits dollar-for-dollar than they put in. In this light, the vast majority of Americans are on welfare.

One of the fallacies of the illegal alien debate is that they take from the government but give nothing back. The truth is, they are being exploited by us more than the other way around. They make a lot of money for the places they work who would not be able to stay in business if they had to pay Americans. Illegal immigrants put product into the economy that otherwise would be very expensive or unavailable to the rest of us. Their willingness to accept low wages and shitty conditions is what allows you to eat all the organic produce you want at affordable prices.

These people are putting money into the American economy for nothing close to a living wage doing work that no one else will do. We should be ashamed of ourselves, not kicking them out for trying to do what any one of us would do-- provide food and opportunities for our family.

I have nothing against Latinos, as I know and have worked with many fine people. But I have everything against the INVASION (and rape) of our tax funded institutions and the sheer amount of crime that is perpetrated by the children of the illegal immigrants.


Are you telling me that, statistically, illegal immigrants and their children are responsible for a large amount of criminal activity in the US? Even in LA, do your research on who is perpetrating crimes. By and large, it's Americans, not children of illegals.
Maybe you should come on over here and SEE our school districts getting utterly TRASHED by the sheer volume of kids who don't speak English, whose parents can't/don't help them in school, and who turn entire neighborhoods into gang-ridden slums.

And this is only done by illegal Mexicans, right? You know, if I didn't know you were talking about Mexicans, I'd think it was 1964 in Alabama.

I've known my share of immigrant children, and to a one, they learned English very quickly, most in under a year. I don't think immigration status has anything to do with parents not doing homework for their kids or creating and being members of a gang. This is more a function of poverty, and is just as or more prevalent among American citizens.

Maybe you should SEE hospitals going broke and closing down because they were glutted by illegals who did not pay for services rendered.

Or are they being shut down because they are bureaucratic top-heavy institutions who are battling with market forces and insurance companies to pay all the administrative staff and not the physicians? How many uninsured Americans don't pay their bills? It seems like this particular problem is with the healthcare system and it's not going to be fixed by getting rid of illegal Mexicans. There are major problems in healthcare all over the US, including areas with little to no illegal immigrants.

Unless you live here and have experienced what the fuck is going on, don't judge our attempts to protect ourselves. Fuck the land! It's about schools, hospitals, and the safety of our own children!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are Mexican immigrants everywhere. It's not just LA.

The truth is, the people that are responsible for both exploiting Mexican illegals and for perpetuating this system are NOT the illegals, but the employers who knowingly employ them and perpetuate a system where only hiring undocumented workers for nothing wages works. They are the ones you should be angry at, not the people who are doing what most of our ancestors did-- came to the US to have opportunity for their children. I really don't get the hatred for the immigrants and not for the companies and individuals who are ultimately responsible for it.
 

davec94

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why shouldn't people born in the US get citizenship, even if illegally? When they reach voting age they will have lived in the country just as long as anyone else born 'legally'...
Is it just as a deterrent against people coming over to have babies? Last i checked your population growth rate wasn't that high anyways...
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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Lets hear the solution. Or would you have to take a side?

Having an opinion on an issue doesn't mean that you have to believe you live in a binary world and must therefore pick a side. I know this is hard for you to wrap your head around.

As for solutions... it's not going to be one. Some things that I would support would be tougher border security, crackdowns on these so-called slave labor rings and on human smugglers operating around the border, a recognition that the immigrant workers already in the USA represent a valuable part of the country and our economy and greater efforts to integrate them. Much of the solution has to do with changing attitudes.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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why shouldn't people born in the US get citizenship, even if illegally? When they reach voting age they will have lived in the country just as long as anyone else born 'legally'...
Is it just as a deterrent against people coming over to have babies? Last i checked your population growth rate wasn't that high anyways...

People born in the US are US citizens. People DO come here to have babies in part for that reason.
 

Not_Punny

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Snoozan -- the answer is YES YES YES.

Come visit and see for yourself. And bring your kid -- to send him to a decent school, you have to take a second job to pay for a private school, or you have to move to a neighborhood that no one can afford to live in.

LA is 47% Latino, and many neighborhoods look like a third world country. Racism? Heck, blacks are an endangered species in LA because the Latino gangs have it "out" for them. Innocent babies are murdered on a regular basis.

Oh yes, we have a LOT of racial problems here. And almost all of them are Latino gangs.

PS: We were middle class and "made too much money" to qualify for any help. I wasn't working when pregnant so we didn't have any second income to help out.
 

D_N Flay Table

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Having an opinion on an issue doesn't mean that you have to believe you live in a binary world and must therefore pick a side. I know this is hard for you to wrap your head around.

As for solutions... it's not going to be one. Some things that I would support would be tougher border security, crackdowns on these so-called slave labor rings and on human smugglers operating around the border, a recognition that the immigrant workers already in the USA represent a valuable part of the country and our economy and greater efforts to integrate them. Much of the solution has to do with changing attitudes.


part of the problem is they feel they do not have to acclimate.
 

Osiris

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How sad that you people agree it's ok to remove a group {Latinos}, from existence,I didn't see that this law was geared toward illegal russians,chech's or any other group of illegals or anyone else,specifically.
Except those who are of latin descent.
cigarbabe:saevilw:

There in lies the tragedy. There are bigger offenders than the Latino community, yet it is going to be the Latino community that pays the highest price.

I'm not here for all of that...

Living up north,Ive heard of these organizations...

But I don't know what they entail...

If it is anything like the kkk,or those pride worldwide type of groups...

Leave me out of it.

Nuff' said.:cool:

AMEN SISTER!

Good post,

I think the big difference in the immigration of today and that of the past is the cost and strain of the social safety net. Before the cost of a poor immigrant to our country was little to nothing (theoretically lower wages) but now the cost is substantial. The benefits of living here are high and a huge expense to the tax payers.
Inscription on the base of the statue of Liberty:
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)

We need to change this inscription. It’s not true and hasn’t been true for at least 80 years! We don’t want your country’s unskilled, uneducated, losers, dregs, diseased, convicts, etc. We grow plenty of our own and don’t need to supplement their numbers.

I agree. We are becoming the "World's Penal Colony." Here is the even funnier part of this. The Latino community isn't the worst when it comes to the crime aspect. The Russian community is taking that illustrious title right now. I am also sure there are others too.

It's totally about racism.

That isn't how it starts, but it does eventually get twisted into a race issue. It usually happens the moment the legislation goes public.
 

snoozan

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I see what you're saying, but I wonder if the problem is less about immigration and more about the abject poverty that illegal Mexicans live in because they are an exploited class of people.

I admit it, if I lived in the LA you described, I'd just leave. I know for most people it's not that simple-- hell, I am trying to move 30 miles away and it's a hardship, but that would seem to be the only option, and I'd be very bitter about it.

To some extent, yes, you have to hold individuals responsible for their own actions. But you also have to deal with the root problem, which lies squarely in the court of those responsible for the system supporting illegal immigration and substandard wages.


Snoozan -- the answer is YES YES YES.

Come visit and see for yourself. And bring your kid -- to send him to a decent school, you have to take a second job to pay for a private school, or you have to move to a neighborhood that no one can afford to live in.

LA is 47% Latino, and many neighborhoods look like a third world country. Racism? Heck, blacks are an endangered species in LA because the Latino gangs have it "out" for them. Innocent babies are murdered on a regular basis.

Oh yes, we have a LOT of racial problems here. And almost all of them are Latino gangs.

PS: We were middle class and "made too much money" to qualify for any help. I wasn't working when pregnant so we didn't have any second income to help out.
 

Rikter8

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You know....the problem being discussed, is much larger than just mexican immigrants....
I think Racist is too strong of a word to describe what we are speaking of.
Throw the race card out of it - because it doesn't belong in this deck.
At least from what I'm speaking - it doesn't matter where they are from or what race. Plain and simple, if they don't live here and contribute to society as a whole, then they should NOT be able to reap the benefits of those who put them in place, and are continuing to support them.

Years ago, the system was different. People were different.
The US has become an overcrowded, overworked and underpaid society, and with many american born folks out of work, there's bound to be some animosity. (And lets face it - we are spoiled and we want money)

Will you see some Preppy white boy or girl out in a field picking potatoes?
Hell No.
Will you see immigrant workers picking -sure. But they need to pay taxes on their wages and be EXCLUDED from the american Social Security plan.

The main issue is thousands "Jumping the fence" just so they can come here, sit on their ass, have 10 kids to get a raise on the SSI check.
C
 

Not_Punny

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Even if illegal immigrants are an "exploited class" -- you still have to remember that the neighborhoods "invaded" by the immigrants did NOT ask for or invite the immigrants. And the invasion resulted in a very un-American standard of living for millions of bona fide Americans.

Here's a comparison:

Chinese people, for example, are "exploited" all the time to provide cheap labor so that we can buy things here in the U.S. at low prices (and so that corporations such as Nike, Walmart, etc. etc.) can make huge profits.

The difference is that Chinese laborers don't crowd our schools or crowd our hospitals.

Certain counties in America are "paying hell" so that all America can have cheaper this or that...

And that's not right.

But this is part of a bigger problem in America -- see my "Morality is the Mortality of America" thread.
 

SpeedoGuy

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I'll believe America is serious about cracking down on illegal immigration when I start seeing business and farm owners going to jail or seriously fined for knowingly hiring illegal aliens. Start with the agriculture industry in the southwestern states. Right now, the paltry consequences of hiring illegals is treated by business as just another labor cost. Ignored, in other words.

Until serious consequences happen, its mostly just talk.
 

snoozan

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Even if illegal immigrants are an "exploited class" -- you still have to remember that the neighborhoods "invaded" by the immigrants did NOT ask for or invite the immigrants. And the invasion resulted in a very un-American standard of living for millions of bona fide Americans.

I see your point, I really do. However, as uninvited as these immigrants are, if companies would not willingly and preferentially seek them out to perform labor at substandard wages, the impetus to come here would be reduced greatly, if not eradicated. People in desperate situations do desperate things. I see the illegal immigrants as being more desperate and less greedy than the employers that are getting rich on the backs of people doing backbreaking labor for little money.

[quote}Chinese people, for example, are "exploited" all the time to provide cheap labor so that we can buy things here in the U.S. at low prices (and so that corporations such as Nike, Walmart, etc. etc.) can make huge profits.

The difference is that Chinese laborers don't crowd our schools or crowd our hospitals.

Certain counties in America are "paying hell" so that all America can have cheaper this or that...[/quote]

I'm a big proponent of bringing manufacturing back to the US for many reasons, one of which is having to pay laborers decent wages and not have to work in sweatshops. I'm a huge hypocrite because I buy a lot of cheap junk myself that I don't need, but in an ideal world, we would have less stuff that is better quality made by people who aren't being exploited. One of the obvious solutions to making this work is to increase the amount of automation in manufacturing processes.

What you bring up about the Chinese not crowding our schools and hospitals brings up an interesting moral dilemma. Morally, is it worse that we exploit the Chinese and give them no opportunity to reap the benefits of the society they are helping build than having illegal immigrants physically here so they can at least reap some of those benefits? In that light, I'd rather have them here where they have at least some opportunity.

I understand your frustration, but I don't think anything is going to stop illegal immigreation until we stop companies from hiring illegal workers at substandard wages so they can more easily line their pockets. If there were no jobs to come here to, people wouldn't come. As it is, for every illegal we deport there are 5 more willing to risk coming.

But this is part of a bigger problem in America -- see my "Morality is the Mortality of America" thread.

I like that thread. I agree with a lot that you have to say.

I'll believe America is serious about cracking down on illegal immigration when I start seeing business and farm owners going to jail or seriously fined for knowingly hiring illegal aliens. Start with the agriculture industry in the southwestern states. Right now, the paltry consequences of hiring illegals is treated by business as just another labor cost. Ignored, in other words.

Until serious consequences happen, its mostly just talk.

I agree 100% with this.
 

Principessa

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Snoozan -- the answer is YES YES YES.
Come visit and see for yourself. And bring your kid -- to send him to a decent school, you have to take a second job to pay for a private school, or you have to move to a neighborhood that no one can afford to live in. This is not news to me. It's the same way in NYC, Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta, pretty much every major city nationwide and their surrounding suburbs. :mad: West New York, NJ has long been a popular place to settle for Cubans. For the last 10 years West New York, NJ has had more Cubans in it than Cuba! :eek: That ain't right.
LA is 47% Latino, and many neighborhoods look like a third world country. Racism? Heck, blacks are an endangered species in LA because the Latino gangs have it "out" for them. Innocent babies are murdered on a regular basis. Damn! A brotha' can't catch a break anywhere any more! :mad::frown1:

Oh yes, we have a LOT of racial problems here. And almost all of them are Latino gangs. Eeekk that's an odd concept to me! :eek::confused:

PS: We were middle class and "made too much money" to qualify for any help. I wasn't working when pregnant so we didn't have any second income to help out.[/quote]

part of the problem is they feel they do not have to acclimate.
Of course not we make it too damned easy for them! :mad:


There in lies the tragedy. There are bigger offenders than the Latino community, yet it is going to be the Latino community that pays the highest price. That's because they are the ones that sneak in illegally in the largest numbers. There are other nationalities that arrive here illegally as well but they actually try to assimilate.
I agree. We are becoming the "World's Penal Colony." Here is the even funnier part of this. The Latino community isn't the worst when it comes to the crime aspect. The Russian community is taking that illustrious title right now. I am also sure there are others too. The Russian mafia as well as the organized crime gangs from Eastern European countries are HORRIBLE! They pretty much own Brighton Beach, NY. My Aunt Louise used to live on one of the few good blocks left in northwest Philadelphia. She moved to Georgia 2 years ago, after living in Philly, for over 50 years soon after the Russians moved in across the street. Crime not only went up in the neighborhood after their arrival. There were incidents of people pets missing then being found tortured and dismembered. :frown1: They broke the stained glass windows that were original to her turn of the century home. All of this could have been isolated to the 2 crazy families that moved across the street from her. But I think not. :mad:
 

Mr. Snakey

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Here I am again,
Playing the RACE CARD

I saw this article while looking at the news feeds,
and I wanted to post this to the group.

Is this "Ethnic Cleansing"???

Oklahoma's Governor Brad Henry has signed a sweeping immigration Reform bill: House Bill 1804, that its sponsor believes will go a long way in dealing with the illegal alien problem in the state.
House Bill 1804 was passed by overwhelming majorities in both the House and Senate of the Oklahoma Legislature. The measure's sponsor, State Representative Randy Terrill, says the bill has four main topical areas: it deals with identity theft ; it terminates public assistance benefits to illegal; it empowers state and local police to enforce federal immigration laws; and it punishes employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens.
Oklahoma is no longer "O.K." for illegal aliens, Terrill observes. "When you put everything together in context," he contends, "the bottom line is illegal aliens will not come here if there are no jobs waiting for them, they will not stay here if there is no government subsidy, and they certainly won't stay here if they know that if they ever encounter our state and local law enforcement officers, they will be physically detained until they're deported. And that's exactly what House Bill 1804 does."
The Oklahoma legislator is pleased the bill he sponsored into law was signed by Governor Henry and believes it will go a long way to curb t he illegal immigration problem in the state. "I would remind people that states are separate sovereigns in our federal system," T errill points out. "Anyone who doesn't understand that needs to go back and take an American federal government class in college," he says.
As a result of that sovereignty, the Oklahoma lawmaker insists, "We have as much right - in fact, I would argue, a responsibility - to protect our tax payers against that sort of egregious waste, fraud and abuse as the federal government should have a responsibility to protect that international border, but doesn't do that."
Terrill says as long as the federal government refuses to do its job of protecting the international borders of the United States, states like Oklahoma must take action to deal with the problem that is costing taxpayers in the state $200 billion a year in public benefits, law enforcement costs, and other resources.



Challenge Filed To House Bill 1804

KOTV - 10/15/2007 4:36 PM - Updated 10/16/2007 10:55 AM
There are developments in the fight to stop Oklahoma's new immigration law. The National Coalition of Latino Clergy filed a federal lawsuit on Monday to stop House Bill 1804 from going into effect next month. The lawsuit challenges the constitutionality of the new immigration law. That new law makes it illegal to transport or house illegal immigrants. It also blocks illegal immigrants from getting jobs and public benefits.
Leaders with the National Coalition of Latino Clergy call the law racist. They believe it targets Latinos in Oklahoma.
Those leaders had strong words for the people behind the immigration law and the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office.
"The sheriff of Tulsa County is guilty of ethnic cleansing and I can tell you very clear, that we will continue pursuing to find the reasons why these people have committed these atrocities against our Latino community,” said Rev. Miguel Rivera with the National Coalition of Latino Clergy.
The law is supposed to go into effect November 1, 2007.
Coalition members hope to have their case before a judge before the law takes effect.
Watch the video: Challenge Filed To House Bill 1804
Isnt it time for a new hobby? Arent you late for a meeting or rally?
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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DJG, you say that all we have to do is go to L.A. for a week to see how bad it's gotten. I've been to L.A., incidentally, and San Diego, but what are we going to see when we get there? If we visit for a week, I don't think we're going to see the inside of a welfare office. We're not going to see any slave laborers. We're not going to visit the mayor's office and look at municipal expenditures that go toward undocumented immigrants. I highly doubt we'll see any instances of gangs of Mexicans raping children, is that something you see every week?

So, leaving the media out of it, which you can see everywhere anyway, what is the staggering evidence of how "bad" it is that would be evident after a week in L.A.? Lots and lots of brown people, right? Are you going to take us to the mall or McDonald's and point: "hey! look! see! they're all brown!!!" What other evidence? Billboards written in Spanish? Heavens no!

There are some good reasons to try and control the flow of immigrants into the country. Not so many good reasons to cut off the flow, or to forcibly expel those who are already here, but to control the flow- yes, there are good reasons. The problem with this debate is that while lip-service is paid to these good ideas, that's all it is. It's still about racism. That's the only reason people care about the issue and get emotionally invested in it. There are light-skinned English-speaking gangs, pedophiles, tax evaders, law-breakers, welfare abusers, alcoholics, etc. But you can't whip a mob into a fervor over that. You can't get an entire nation angry at one group of people if the only thing that group of people has done is one of the above, except perhaps for the pedophiles. That's what this is all about. What sells. Mob mentality. What you can exploit to get the most people charged up about. and the answer to that? Target a group of people generally disliked. It worked for the Nazis. That's why the comparison to ethnic cleansing is fair. Even if our methods aren't as brutal, it's still a debate tainted by racism and by political aims.

The issue is important to a lot of people because a lot of people don't like speaking Spanish at McDonald's. When it's not outright naked racism it is attitudes, opinions and concerns or frustrations flavored and informed by racism. Politicians pick up on the fact that the issue is important to some people, and exploit that. Fox News plays it up to be a bigger issue than it actually is, because their politicians are now running on this issue. They sow fear and paranoia and contempt to make their position stronger. They work the mob and count on the fact that these people that they've made upset are going to go to the polls and vote for them. Meanwhile they probably don't actually plan to do anything because most hispanics are conservative and vote Republican. but that's kinda beside the point. They're only making this an issue to get votes, and their media stooges are only too happy to oblige them. They have to use high-minded language when talking about the issue or they're going to get gunned down, but really deep down they have to know what they are doing. Hate, fear, racism are all such common tools of the trade in politics it's a complete cliche now. You just have to call it something else. Feign indignation over how tax dollars are being spent to help Mexican mothers in America give birth, while meanwhile we're spending billions upon billions of dollars overseas in Iraq.

They use the same exact cynical approach when it comes to gay marriage. Once every two years, all of a sudden and out of the blue, gay marriage becomes a huge threat. All of a sudden it's all over the news again and it's destroying homes and families again. The conservative pundits out there stir up the fag-hating and the ew-butt-sex-is-icky feelings in their base, get them good and angry about this, make it out to be some huge important issue because they know they'll get that mob to the polls to vote for them. They win the election, go to Washington, collect their corporate payoff and start thinking about their next campaign.

Nothing meaningful is done, and no intelligent progress is made in any of these debates. The fear and hate mongers get elected to office by all the racists and homophobes who go to the polls to make their voice heard, and then are promptly ignored until it's election season again.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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part of the problem is they feel they do not have to acclimate.

Don't you think that nightly news stories ::cue dramatic end-of-the-world music:: that imply that all immigrants are pedophile murdering gang-banger terrorists who hate America and just want to steal our tax money can make it difficult for them to acclimate?

Also... it doesn't happen overnight. They will acclimate if we let them. They will change, and the country will change, just as we have always done. Like Card said in his article, "[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Our culture has always tolerated thousands and millions of people who spoke other languages and clung together in memory of the old country. And then, a few generations later, we were all Americans together."

Expecting this change, not in a few generations, but immediately after they cross the border, is a little unreasonable.
[/FONT]
 

Not_Punny

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NIC -- maybe the point isn't being made clearly enough.

This is a situation that can't be TRULY seen or experienced until unless you have school aged children, or you need to go to an emergency room. THIS is where the the problem comes to a head.

Hundreds of schools are jammed with kids that don't speak English well or at all and/or have parents that don't speak English. These kids do NOT have the necessary infrastructure to assimilate into the California school system. But worse -- many of the middle and high schools are plain, flat out UNSAFE. And I mean REALLY, REALLY unsafe.

I own a great house in North Hollywood. But can I live there? NO!! I'm renting somewhere else (for much more money) because of the schools! Unbelievable, terrible, flooded schools. UNSAFE! Gangs! Gahhhh!

And honestly, please do NOT desperately need to go to an Emergency room in the middle of the night... they're packed.

I couldn't care less about the language barrier at McDonalds. At least you probably won't get shot.

The problem is that we don't have the infrastructure to accommodate them scholastically, medically and welfare-wise.

If we were smart, we'd spend money to actually ASSIMILATE them.