lpsg

[Max]

I was about to express my concern about the way lpsg.org has been going -- but when I logged on I saw that (as usual!) I was very late ... and a whole lot of people had got ahead of me.

I am one of the long-standing members here ... in fact along with one or two others like Donk an early migrant from the old large penis forum. I know this doesn't give me any particular status as someone whose opinions matter, but I am going to express them nevertheless:

The usual danger of a forum like this is that it falls prey to competitive bragging, show-offs, name calling, size queens (of both sexes) and the like; this is what happened to the old 'large penis forum'. But it has never happened here -- although there have been several occasions when someone has overstepped the bounds, on the whole the good sense of the vast majority of the members has dealt with it.

Keeping the forum on track has been achieved mostly by the simple expedient of ignoring someone who tries to stir up trouble or who posts something offensive -- I think this is the better way of handling it, though I can accept there may be some occasions when censorship has to be excercised. I think we can rely on Mark for that.

In logging onto this forum I accept that there will be some things here that may offend me, or that depict a life style I couldn't myself condone or accept. The net is very hard to police in this way; the only way is for me to ignore them.

My concern recently has been very different from most of the anxiety I have seen expressed in the last 24 hours. I take the view that the fundamental raison d'etre of lpsg is to help very well endowed guys deal with the challenges of having an oversized penis, and maybe to enjoy its advantages even more (and likewise for the partners of such men). As a young guy I could have been helped enormously by this forum and the advice offered here ... and I continue to post here only because I feel I might on the odd occasion be able to help meet this goal ... and to read the posts because maybe I still have something to learn .

But recently, in logging on ... and using the last 25 posts facility as I do because of time pressures, it seems to me that hardly one post in 50 or even in 100 would genuinely offer any help or encouragement or new ideas to someone who really needs lpsg.org. You have to wade through a whole heap of other stuff to find it.

I know that the cameraderie is important .. and the good supportive fellow feeling of a group of cyber friends; but I get the feeling that some newcomers may wonder what on earth all this is about .. a "party" which they have accidentally interrupted, and they may feel a little uncomfortable about joining, or a place with a real focus on issues to do with having a large penis. We've even had whole series of posts about the number of posts different members are chalking up ... What in the end can be the value of that ???

This may sound a typical rant from a middle-aged guy -- it is! --- but as Monstro (I think) rightly implied in a post near the end of the thread in "etc etc" .... internet dramas aren't worth it. Lpsg.org doesn't matter at all in itself ... what matters is that people get the help and ideas they need.

Rant over.

 

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wvalady1968: I understand now.

 

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jumbo747jet: I couldn't have said it better myself and I totally agree with the very insightful and important post made by Max.

 

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norseman: Hey Max,

Thanks for logging in after the 'tempest in the teapot" incident.
I started a thread under "Meet and Greet" a day or so ago that began to address the issue you've brought up by asking "Are we all posted out?" because I too saw a whole bunch of stuff going on that seemed to have nothing to do with LPSG. I thought perhaps we had said all there was to say, so the board had disintegrated into a social club of random topics. The thread didn't get much play. Perhaps no one wanted to hear it.

If I follow the list of those who went away in a huff correctly, perhaps the problem has solved itself. I don't have any axe to grind with any of them, but it will be interesting to see if things get back "on track".

Norse

 

[bartonside]

Bravo Max! It needed saying as I find many of the topics of minimal interest. Also quite a lot of recent topics are, in fact, going over well-trodden ground. But I think that the number of members and the quantity of topics does show that there is still plenty of life in the board yet. It is by turns fascinating, stimulating and occasioanlly irritating but there is usually something interesting to read each day.

 

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Donk: If anyone could give a brief summary of what exactly has transpired over the last 24 hours that apparently has now led to the establishment of a competing board, I would appreciate it. I know that whatever issues are involved are not something that came up overnight, but it appears that things have come to a head while I wasn't looking. I pretty much check in on this board daily, but it has gotten so active that I can't keep up with all the threads and intrigues.

 

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H8Monga: Isn't one of the old LPSG boards still operational? I remember seeing someone posting a link to it and the posts were recent as of that time I checked it. The world is being taken over by LPSG's! Pretty soon it'll be like The Temptations where Otis sues any of the former members who uses the Temptations name without clarification.

 

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9cyclops9: Donk,

It is not a competing board. None of us want any bad feelings one way or the other. And several of us still post on both boards. No competition, at least none on the other site. There still seem to be some harsh feelings on this board though

John

 

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joe22xxx: For me this forum has been very helpful. I've met & talked with a few members online. As a guy who is 22 & who has not talked to many people about my size, I find that the lpsg is a place where I have more questions than answers. I try to contribute where I feel I can, but for most of the time I'm asking more questions because I'm not sure about some of these issues.

 

[13788]

View_From_Below: [quote author=Donk link=board=meetgreet;num=1068043927;start=0#5 date=11/05/03 at 20:28:24]If anyone could give a brief summary of what exactly has transpired over the last 24 hours that apparently has now led to the establishment of a competing board, I would appreciate it....[/quote]

I second the motion. I was away on business for three days. Now I feel as though I've come in at the intermission of an obscure play, and having missed the first act, I have no idea of what has brought the plot to this juncture. Could a remaining mod perhaps summarize? Paul? DMW? Hapi?

As to Max's point about the recent significant growth of in-group clubbiness--the change IS disturbing, boring, and, I would think, exclusionary to newcomers. And not on topic. Max is right.

VFB

 

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Donk: [quote author=9cyclops9 link=board=meetgreet;num=1068043927;start=0#7 date=11/05/03 at 23:05:49]Donk,

It is not a competing board. None of us want any bad feelings one way or the other. And several of us still post on both boards. No competition, at least none on the other site. There still seem to be some harsh feelings on this board though

John[/quote]

My real question is what the heck has been going on around here. Not really whether people consider the new board to be competing or not. Posters keep alluding to a recent controversy in a way that assumes everyone already knows what has happened without explaining what's going on. It's really maddening.

 

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mindseye: [quote author=Donk link=board=meetgreet;num=1068043927;start=0#10 date=11/06/03 at 05:22:08]

My real question is what the heck has been going on around here. Not really whether people consider the new board to be competing or not. Posters keep alluding to a recent controversy in a way that assumes everyone already knows what has happened without explaining what's going on. It's really maddening.[/quote]


Donk, you asked for a rundown of events yesterday, and I was hoping someone a little more neutral than me would have answered. Since that hasn't happened, here's (as fairly as I can come up with) a chronology:

---

October 29 approximately mid-day​

(I don't have the exact date becase the original posts were deleted.) A member of LPSG, who uses the handle HUMONGOUS, posted a number of fictional stories online that were lifted, verbatim, from another website. (I didn't see any stories myself, but I've been told one of them involved a donkey.) At least one of these stories bore notice of copyright. Some people objected because of the content of the stories, some objected because they were posted without crediting the original author, some objected because the sheer number of stories was excessive.

October 30, 12:32 am EST​

Mark e-mails me to ask for a change to the code that would permit a moderators-only board. I made the change that morning, and replied to him that I had done so.

October 30-November 3​

Over the next few days, the moderators wrestle with the issue of how to handle HUMONGOUS -- there was a lot of discussion about the fact that his stories involved bestiality which no one seemed thrilled to have in LPSG, and there was a lot of discussion over whether moderators had a responsibility to block the posting of copyrighted content.

Unfortunately, HUMONGOUS himself wasn't responding very maturely to any of these ideas, telling moderators to "get a life", flooding their inboxes, etc. His childish attitude made a win-win resolution increasingly untenable.

November 3, 12:35 am EST​

Seemingly without prior consultation with Mark, Maximillian compiles a "Terms Of Service" contract from other contracts that he's found on the internet, and through Sammygirly shares it with the other moderators. This contract categorically restricts all sorts of material, from "perjury" to "material that is protected by trade secrets" to "bestiality". There is no explicit mention anywhere in the document of stories involving minors, but there is a catch-all provision that bans posts that are "deem[ed] objectionable by the owners" [plural his, not mine].

Over the course of the day, some moderators praised the TOS. A few, including myself, objected to it.

November 3, 7:18 pm EST​

Mark thanks the moderators for their concern but states that the LPSG will not adopt a TOS contract. "[A] TOS would imply a legal contract between me and anyone who uses the message board. No thanks."

Over the next three hours, a few moderators attempt to circumvent the "contract" nature of the original Terms of Service while still preserving its intent. As an example,

[quote author=gigantikok link=board=moderators;num=1067838238;start=0#14 date=11/03/03 at 16:28:30]I am just making "sticky" posts in my two sections. It isn't an official TOS, but I want to give people the heads up about plagiarizing and nude photos. I won't tolerate it.[/quote]

November 3, 10:28 pm EST​

Mark states his position more fully: " I absolutely hate censorship. Stories about bestiality are allowed. In fact, stories about ANYTHING are allowed here. If you don't like what someone has posted, you have as much of a right to tell them how you feel as that person does to post his or her fantasies or stories. [... If] you don't feel comfortable being a part of a message board that allows complete freedom of expression, then you should probably find other ways to spend your free time."

November 4, 10:04 pm EST​

Less than 24 hours later, Maximillian takes Mark up on his suggestion. Over the course of the night, a few posters join him.

From that point on, the discussion has taken place out in public.

---

Edited to correct a date.

 

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jumbo747jet: This is a hard nut to crack  

Considering the large number of members we now have at this site, it's no surprise we all don't share the same views and opinions.  In fact, I am glad we don't, as the site would be terribly boring if we did.

One thing I would appreciate though, would be if posts could be posted under the correct headings. Fiction under fiction and subjects that don't quite fit in under any other heading, under et cetera.

I hope nobody will feel forced to leave the site in the future and that more new members find the site as informative and useful as I am sure most of us already do.

Peace

 

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awellhungboi: That's a very cogent description of a lot of what's been happening, mindseye. The whole thing is like Rashomon, though--many different interpretations. I don't know. Here's my side.

Friday, I'm surfing the board, chatting with Paul. I venture into the Fictitious Stories section for the first time in a while. I stumble upon the story Bingo's Buddy. "Gross there's a bestiality story!" I exclaim. Over the course of discussion I say, "Do you guys need a f.s. moderator?" Paul (I'm paraphrasing) says, "Sure, go for it, I'll suggest it to the other mods, you send a message to Mark." I send a message to Mark, "Do you want a moderator for F.S." "Sure, thanks," is his (paraphrase) reply. The other mods welcome me.

I delete Bingo's Buddy and the donkey thread. I post 'guidelines.' I ask Mark if there's anything he wants me to add or delete from the guidelines. He says they're fine, and thanks me (I have the IM still).

Then, like mindseye says, Sammy posts TOS. I have nothing to say about them, figuring it's Marks decision whether he wants to implement such a thing. I really don't care one way or the other. Meanwhile, in another thread Nony suggest I should lock the guidelines thread, since it's prompted some discussion, and create a new set of guidelines as a locked sticky topic. Pliant, eager to please dumbass Monstro says, "Sure, I'll do that," just trying to be part of a unified front as a moderator, never dreaming that Mark and Mindseye might see this as an attempt to circumvent their veto of the TOS (and I didn't even realize they probably thought that until this post by mindseye.). Duh. I don't think Nony meant it as a circumvention either, either, but she'd have to address her motivations herself. Again, I had no opinion on the TOS, pro or con, I leave the legal stuff to the pros.

Mark (evidently, since he hasn't spoken about this) gets mad, posts his "Bestiality is okay" post that we're all familiar with. Pliant, eager to please dumbass Monstro says, "Okay," sends Mark an IM saying, "Do you want me to delete the guidelines?" Mark says, "Yes, please do." I do. (again, paraphrasing, but that's the general tenor of the conversation.)

Sunday night I go to bed at 10:00 thinking everything's fine. I check the board when I get up. The sturm und drang has started. I try my best to quell any problems, and calm everybody down. It doesn't work. I apologize for a variety of different things, and in an attempt to please everybody, end up pleasing no one. Pliant eager to please Monstro writes this post and needs a valium. Looks like I picked the wrong month to give up snorting glue.

In all seriousness I'm upset about the whole thing. I just wanted to help out, give something back to the site.

 

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mindseye: Thanks for adding that. I knew you and Mark had exchanged some private messages, but I wasn't privy to their contents.

 

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Tender: [quote author=Monstro link=board=meetgreet;num=1068043927;start=0#13 date=11/06/03 at 08:01:22]That's a very cogent description of a lot of what's been happening, mindseye.  The whole thing is like Rashomon, though--many different interpretations.  I don't know.  Here's my side.

Friday, I'm surfing the board, chatting with Paul.  I venture into the Fictitious Stories section for the first time in a while.  I stumble upon the story Bingo's Buddy.  "Gross there's a bestiality story!" I exclaim.  Over the course of discussion I say, "Do you guys need a f.s. moderator?"  Paul (I'm paraphrasing) says, "Sure, go for it, I'll suggest it to the other mods, you send a message to Mark."  I send a message to Mark, "Do you want a moderator for F.S."  "Sure, thanks," is his (paraphrase) reply. The other mods welcome me.

I delete Bingo's Buddy and the donkey thread.  I post 'guidelines.'  I ask Mark if there's anything he wants me to add or delete from the guidelines.  He says they're fine, and thanks me (I have the IM still).

Then, like mindseye says, Sammy posts TOS.  I have nothing to say about them, figuring it's Marks decision whether he wants to implement such a thing.  I really don't care one way or the other.  Meanwhile, in another thread Nony suggest I should lock the guidelines thread, since it's prompted some discussion, and create a new set of guidelines as a locked sticky topic.  Pliant, eager to please dumbass Monstro says, "Sure, I'll do that," just trying to be part of a unified front as a moderator, never dreaming that Mark and Mindseye might see this as an attempt to circumvent their veto of the TOS (and I didn't even realize they probably thought that until this post by mindseye.).  Duh.  I don't think Nony meant it as a circumvention either, either, but she'd have to address her motivations herself.  Again, I had no opinion on the TOS, pro or con, I leave the legal stuff to the pros.

Mark (evidently, since he hasn't spoken about this) gets mad, posts his "Bestiality is okay" post that we're all familiar with.  Pliant, eager to please dumbass Monstro says, "Okay," sends Mark an IM saying, "Do you want me to delete the guidelines?"  Mark says, "Yes, please do."  I do.  (again, paraphrasing, but that's the general tenor of the conversation.)

Sunday night I go to bed at 10:00 thinking everything's fine.  I check the board when I get up.  The sturm und drang has started.  I try my best to quell any problems, and calm everybody down.  It doesn't work.  I apologize for a variety of different things, and in an attempt to please everybody, end up pleasing no one.  Pliant eager to please Monstro writes this post and needs a valium.  Looks like I picked the wrong month to give up snorting glue.

In all seriousness I'm upset about the whole thing.  I just wanted to help out, give something back to the site. [/quote]

Monstro
dont feel bad,
its nothing you did
nothing you didnt do.
and nothing you could of done.
sounds to me like you are just doing what you thought best.
i think its all just out of hand. and yes itll blow over and hopefully things will be normal again.
probably several people here, that only get one side or bits and pieces, ect and then others think who knows what and it all falls apart.
thats what happens when we jump too fast, assume things, and have poor communication.
now we just have to decide who is staying or going, appoint some new mods if needed, and what not.
sort it out and go from there.
takes some time,,,
but i dont think anyone has did anything wrong, and especially not on purpose. no one seen this coming really until it snowballed...
:-*
Tender

 

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awellhungboi: Thanks Mindseye and Tender!

You're right. This too shall pass!

 

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mindseye: [quote author=Monstro link=board=meetgreet;num=1068043927;start=0#13 date=11/06/03 at 08:01:22]... never dreaming that Mark and Mindseye might see this as an attempt to circumvent their veto of the TOS.[/quote]

I've already discussed this in IM with Monstro, but I wanted to clarify it publicly, because this isn't the first time there's been some confusion on this point.

I have no direct role in policy decisions on LPSG. The veto was Mark's alone.

I'm in a unique position on LPSG because (as far as I'm aware) I'm the only person besides Mark who has access to administrator-level commands. In fact -- I don't have access to these commands from the 'mindseye' account -- there is a separate account that I use when I access the administrative commands; Mark knows the password to the account and he can change it and lock me out any time he chooses.

I work with the site in a technical capacity only. Bug fixes, new features, patching security holes, periodic backups -- that sort of thing. I don't perform 'interpretive' administrative tasks like deleting offensive posts, warning users, etc. I've left those tasks solely to Mark and to the administrators he's chosen. I'm far too opinionated, vocal, and abrasive about policy issues (and lots of other issues too) for that type of role.

I've had a lot to say on this matter, but my opinions carry no more weight than yours or anyone else's.

 

[Pecker]

(((((((group hug))))))))

 

[13788]

mm5166: I just want to say that when I asked a question once, I had a quick response that went to the point. Maybe it's because we are getting old timers, and our problems have been resolved. Therefore, a community sense often arise after a board has served his primary function. People will start to talk about day to day things (of course, this board has a freedom of speech that you can't have at many other places because this is an "adult" board in a sense).

Just have a moderator to be on the checkout for Trolls is all I ask.