Made in China? - US Unemployment projected above 8% thru 2014

[B_curiousme01]

I decided to put this here instead of the political thread because I am hoping we can have a discussion on our collective purchasing power, how we got here and how to bring it home instead of another heated political finger pointing thread. I do point out a few "political" considerations at the end simply to try and put into perspective where we've spent most of our money.

I recently decided to buy locally produced products whenever possible after going to the store to buy my hubby some socks, boxer briefs and a new ball cap. The first four stores had these items. Almost ALL of them were made in China. A few from Pakistan and India. I finally found one manufacturer who makes socks here. No luck on the ball cap orundies. I refused to buy them. We went to buy a compass this past Saturday and every one was Made in China!

Curious as ever, I began looking at all the things in my house and guess what? China's taken over my closets, drawers, kitchen, basement, etc! I'm shocked! I think of all my holiday Dollar Store trips and cringe. I think of them making products with toxic materials that we all gobbled up. Even some of the sheet rock they exported to us was toxic to breathe in!!! It took people getting sick in their own homes to even discover it.

What happened to Made in America? Why don't we make ANYTHING anymore? Is it too expensive for someone to operate a manufacturing business? Have we decided to just buy as cheaply as possible for every item we purchase so we can buy more cheap stuff? Honestly, I have so many "things" in my house that I don't really need. I have to admit I have some I've never used and only bought them because they were on sale for cheap. Why do I really need plastic Easter Egg's????????

Almost ALL the Back to School stuff has MIC stamped all over it. Check it out.

With our unemployment problems, I would hope more people will begin to look at where and what we are really doing by blindly purchasing products. I don't know about China's presence in Europe, but I cannot help but wonder if it's the same there.

I did some stats on the Worlds Largest Militaries. Guess who's numero uno? The UK doesn't even make the Top 10!

They also own 40% of every American dollar.

We really need to take notice of what we're doing to ourselves and the potential outcomes. We don't our government to create legislation about whatwe purchase. We each can choose to spend wisely at least. I hope!! Sorry for the uber long rant too. I got carried away, as usual.

 

[ChicagoWuff]

I have given up on buying Made in the USA, after it took 2 years to give up on a toaster and I had to buy one second-hand. At this point, Made in the USA is my first choice and my second choice is anywhere that is NOT China. Usually, this means I'm paying a premium or am forced to buy things online, but I'm willing to do these things, because I believe in quality goods made by a well paid, skilled workforce.

That being said... If you buy a $20 toaster which was Made in China? The retailer bought it from their distributor for about $10. The distributor bought it for about $7.50. And the manufacturer only paid about $2.50 to have it made in China, whereas making the same toaster in the U.S. would have run about $10, sold to the distributor for $30, the store for $60 and you for $120. The design and marketing, the websites and every other aspect of that toaster was, most likely, Made in the USA. It's just the toaster itself which got outsourced to a country which is willing to destroy their environment and take advantage of their workforce, to save us a few bucks.

 

[Charles Finn]

this is why I now shop for food at Kroger or Meijer this is why I shop at thrift stores and why I collect old media and old players we used to make things to last generations but we can do it again
I do look for the made in America stamp

 

[EagleCowboy]

The reason that everything is Made In China, is because US businesses get huge tax breaks/incentives to outsource things outside the US. Plus, labor is much cheaper elsewhere than paying some fat, lazy, American big $$$ to do the same job here. And we let Congress tell us what we want instead of telling them what we want. Maybe we should outsource their jobs!! LOL

I also refuse to buy things not made in the US if I can keep from it. There is a website that has a list of products still made in the US. Whirlpool being one of them in Tulsa. But to get those, you have to specifically order it from that factory. My biggest beef is that the products made here in the US, the quality isn't much better than China. And there's NO excuse for that!

I could go on and on, but there's only so much internet space!

 

[EagleCowboy]

I have given up on buying Made in the USA, after it took 2 years to give up on a toaster and I had to buy one second-hand. At this point, Made in the USA is my first choice and my second choice is anywhere that is NOT China. Usually, this means I'm paying a premium or am forced to buy things online, but I'm willing to do these things, because I believe in quality goods made by a well paid, skilled workforce.

That being said... If you buy a $20 toaster which was Made in China? The retailer bought it from their distributor for about $10. The distributor bought it for about $7.50. And the manufacturer only paid about $2.50 to have it made in China, whereas making the same toaster in the U.S. would have run about $10, sold to the distributor for $30, the store for $60 and you for $120. The design and marketing, the websites and every other aspect of that toaster was, most likely, Made in the USA. It's just the toaster itself which got outsourced to a country which is willing to destroy their environment and take advantage of their workforce, to save us a few bucks.

WHEEL BEARINGS!
The simple wheel bearing for your car. They look innocent enough. But have you ever wondered just how sinister that little rolly-thingy is to you?

Let's say you have an 03 Dodge 3500 dually and the front wheel bearing goes out. China can make that wheel hub assembly for less than $2. Then you add shipping and a supplier. Now you're up to $4. If you buy it direct from a supplier, you might get it for $200. But that supplier is going to sell it to a retailer like your friendly neighborhood major big box parts store for $100 because they buy heavy volume, then the parts store sells it to you for $400 with a 1 year warranty. this puts you back on the road and you're all happy, right? But are you really happy?

So who really benefits? Not the American people who could build a better bearing with high quality and desperately need the jobs! It's the executives that benefit. All because they shipped your jobs overseas, which means higher profit for the company, which means higher pay for the executives because they found a way to drastically cut costs while drastically increasing profits, ALL AT YOUR EXPENSE!

From a business standpoint, it's actually great! Short term anyway. when you purposely remove your fellow countryman's job and give it to someone overseas, then you literally expect and demand that that same countryman buy from you, to keep you in the lifestyle and income to which you're now accustomed, but he can't because he now has no job, isn't that like shooting yourself in the foot?

 

[B_curiousme01]

Another thought that just came to mind reading CharlesFlynn's grocer choice and EagleCowboy's point of the tax incentives etc. we give away like crazy to every country but our own makes me really scared at the thought of the majority of our food being imported from there in the future. Maybe not our generation, but it's certainly possible that it could be the outcome for our kids or grandkids at the rate we're going. We don't have very many famers anymore.

How scary would it be to find ourselves at the grocer one day and most of the food produced was Made in China?

Shudder.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Another thought that just came to mind reading CharlesFlynn's grocer choice and EagleCowboy's point of the tax incentives etc. we give away like crazy to every country but our own makes me really scared at the thought of the majority of our food being imported from there in the future. Maybe not our generation, but it's certainly possible that it could be the outcome for our kids or grandkids at the rate we're going. We don't have very many famers anymore.

How scary would it be to find ourselves at the grocer one day and most of the food produced was Made in China?

Shudder.

Wow, I don't understand why it's a problem that things are made in China, they just happen to dominate world manufacturing right now.

I certainly don't know why one would preference every other country before China when it comes to purchasing if a locally produced item isn't available.


I mean sure one tries to buy locally produced if one can, mostly because it's better for the environment, but if only Chinese produced is available that's certainly not going to stop me buying whatever the thing is.

As to issues around quality well that's down to national governments to insure there are effective trading standards laws and consumer rights and manufactured goods regulations to stop inferior quality or dangerous products (from where ever they happen to come from) from being sold in the first place.


If a top or good quality local product can't be found I don't care that much where the thing is from if it's made well and is of a reasonable price and wasn't produced by slave or child labour or under inhumane working conditions, and with that in mind there are a number of countries with far worse records than China.

I mean I might avoid buying Burmese long before I avoided buying Chinese.

 

[B_curiousme01]

I think you're very lucky in Ireland to be able to have a selection of local and forigen items to choose from. Our choices are either one or none. Basically.

It's not that I think it's terrible to purchase a foreign product, I think it's terrible that the vast majority of the products we purchase are foreign and we don't have any choice. Combined with our unemployment rate, I think it deserves purchaser consideration at the very least.

I am kinda wierd about China now though. The more I think of it, the more I'm wondering what all those body lotions, toothpaste, backspacks, pens and paper etc. are made out of/coated with that we carry around or use for personal hygiene. Or the "sippy cups" our babies use...

I'm just not confident enough in government to protect us before a problem is discovered. History shows people usually have to get sick before an item is taken off the shelf and recalled. Damage already done. We're going to have to make our own purchasing decisions. If enough of us choose to buy American, maybe we will create a few new manufacturing jobs and help next generation along the way.

 

[B_curiousme01]

Also Hilarie...I forgot to highlight to you that they have imported toxic products to us. I'd wager Ireland got/has some too. That, in itself, is enough to have a "problem" for me to not want to by Made in China.

 

[Countryguy63]

Another thought that just came to mind reading CharlesFlynn's grocer choice and EagleCowboy's point of the tax incentives etc. we give away like crazy to every country but our own makes me really scared at the thought of the majority of our food being imported from there in the future. Maybe not our generation, but it's certainly possible that it could be the outcome for our kids or grandkids at the rate we're going. We don't have very many famers anymore.

How scary would it be to find ourselves at the grocer one day and most of the food produced was Made in China?

Shudder.

Unfortunately, many of the pieces of produce are already just that...Chile (just one example) can produce, and export some foods cheaper than they can be grown here. That's not even taking into account, packaging, warehousing, and shipping costs that still are aded to the domestically grown foods.

It's not as widespread as non-food products, but it's there :frown1:

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I think you're very lucky in Ireland to be able to have a selection of local and forigen items to choose from. Our choices are either one or none. Basically.

It's not that I think it's terrible to purchase a foreign product, I think it's terrible that the vast majority of the products we purchase are foreign and we don't have any choice. Combined with our unemployment rate, I think it deserves purchaser consideration at the very least.

I am kinda wierd about China now though. The more I think of it, the more I'm wondering what all those body lotions, toothpaste, backspacks, pens and paper etc. are made out of/coated with that we carry around or use for personal hygiene. Or the "sippy cups" our babies use...

I'm just not confident enough in government to protect us before a problem is discovered. History shows people usually have to get sick before an item is taken off the shelf and recalled. Damage already done. We're going to have to make our own purchasing decisions. If enough of us choose to buy American, maybe we will create a few new manufacturing jobs and help next generation along the way.

Also Hilarie...I forgot to highlight to you that they have imported toxic products to us. I'd wager Ireland got/has some too. That, in itself, is enough to have a "problem" for me to not want to by Made in China.

Well to be fair, Ireland has never had much of a manufacturing sector, it's always been massively an net importer of manufactured goods. "Locally produced" to me of course includes Ireland, but in real terms that would mostly mean other neighbouring EU countries.


I think that's why nationalism plays less of a role in how I purchase; because Ireland simply doesn't have a dog in the hunt.

As to inferior products being imported from China, I'm sure it's happened here, though in common with most EU countries we have very strong laws and regulations which prevent that kind of thing from being very common.

Also tbh China has one of the top three most technically advanced manufacturing sectors. 20 or 30 years ago "Made in China" became synonymous with poor quality, these days they can out produce (in terms of quality) almost every other country on earth, they do in fact produce some of the worlds most technologically cutting edge products and a huge amount of the world's luxury goods are made in China to the highest standards.

Does China still produce vast quantities of junk? Yes. Unfortunately China's dominance of manufacturing and the poor quality of manufactured goods on sale in the US is a part of the price of capitalism, which is of course America's true religion. :wink:

 

[EagleCowboy]

The problem in the US is that we DID have everything here at one time. And it was made at good quality. Until the tax incentives came along to ship jobs offshore. Whoever came up with that is a traitor to the US.

Also tbh China has one of the top three most technically advanced manufacturing sectors. 20 or 30 years ago "Made in China" became synonymous with poor quality, these days they can out produce (in terms of quality) almost every other country on earth, they do in fact produce some of the worlds most technologically cutting edge products and a huge amount of the world's luxury goods are made in China to the highest standards.

But here's the problem. It was once US that held the top spot until the outsourcing. Then it was all outsourced to Japan which made the superior electronics (and still do) and they are our friends! Now even Japan is suffering from outsourcing to China by their own people just like the US is. The *ONLY* reason that China is the top dog now is because of outsourcing. And China hates the US and Japan still!

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

But here's the problem. It was once US that held the top spot until the outsourcing. Then it was all outsourced to Japan which made the superior electronics (and still do) and they are our friends! Now even Japan is suffering from outsourcing to China by their own people just like the US is. The *ONLY* reason that China is the top dog now is because of outsourcing. And China hates the US and Japan still!

OK, firstly, out-sourcing occurs because it's simply cheaper to produce something elsewhere. You live in a proudly capitalist country, a country which has used it's predominance to impose capitalism on the world; one of the basic principles of capitalism is that companies must produce at the lowest possible price and sell for the highest possible price consumers will pay. China simply produces things much more cheaply than the U.S. Tax incentives have almost nothing to do with it, and I'm almost certain U.S. tax incentives to out-source don't exist, they don't need to, simple capitalist economics would force U.S. companies to import Chinese manufactured goods anyway.

Secondly, asserting that China hates the U.S. is infantile. The Chinese government bailed the U.S. out to the tune of many many hundreds of billions of dollars when the U.S. economy hit the buffers in 2008.

In fact the Chinese are so heavily invested in trying to keep the U.S economy afloat that they recently issued statements chastising Congress for not effectively dealing with the current debt crisis in the U.S. It did so because if the U.S. economy fails China's economy will also take a massive hit.

Do you really think that if China hated the U.S. is would expose itself to such a vast risk? Surely it would ignore common sense and allow it's hatred to overrule basic economic prudence and simply have allowed the U.S.A. to go down the tubes ages ago, no?

Seriously, get real.

 

[B_curiousme01]

We actually need more capitalism here to pay for all the stuff we give away to "the" people, corporations, and other nations for one ideological reason or another. If we don't get it together soon, we'll end up in the same situation as many of the EU and other countries who have no money, no exports, no work, and LONG ass list of social progams that cannot be funded longterm. I don't understand how socialist programs have benefitted the people by bankrupting them!

As I am now on the China thing and cannot stop thinking about one thing after the other, I looked up defense and read that England has one battleship in the entire active Navy! WTF happened there?! The UK is surrounded by water. And super close to Russia!! The entire UE could be considered a sitting duck for any countries leader who is crazy enough to delcare war, shoot a nuclear weapon off or whatever - especially if they team up. It can happen without a warning. Remember Hitler? Wow! Peace on earth and all that is never going to happen. Any country who does not invest in protecting their people will obviously find themselves in a world of trouble one of these days and an instantly new way of life. Ugh.

We NEED to create manufacturing jobs and put our people to work.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

We actually need more capitalism here to pay for all the stuff we give away to "the" people, corporations, and other nations for one ideological reason or another. If we don't get it together soon, we'll end up in the same situation as many of the EU and other countries who have no money, no exports, no work, and LONG ass list of social progams that cannot be funded longterm. I don't understand how socialist programs have benefitted the people by bankrupting them!

As I am now on the China thing and cannot stop thinking about one thing after the other, I looked up defense and read that England has one battleship in the entire active Navy! WTF happened there?! The UK is surrounded by water. And super close to Russia!! The entire UE could be considered a sitting duck for any countries leader who is crazy enough to delcare war, shoot a nuclear weapon off or whatever - especially if they team up. It can happen without a warning. Remember Hitler? Wow! Peace on earth and all that is never going to happen. Any country who does not invest in protecting their people will obviously find themselves in a world of trouble one of these days and an instantly new way of life. Ugh.

We NEED to create manufacturing jobs and put our people to work.

This is just hilarious. I think imma leave this little conversation alone from now on. :biggrin1:

 

[Endued]

I had no idea Russia were going attack! This is most bothersome.

 

[B_curiousme01]

Any country can attack another in one way or another. If you think it can't or won't ever happen to yours, that's your decision. I used Russian military power was an example for Western Europe. I was just really surprised to discover the fact that the UK and other countries in Western Europe have minimun or no defense at all. A few have some nuclear weapons and that's it. Not one has an military force in the Top 10. Vietman is listed tho. Of course, it's the choice of the people to decide what is most important.

Anyways, I did mean for this to be about why nothing in my house is made in America and how I can change that through personal decisions and to see if anyone else has this concern. I just got thinking about the snowball effect and posted the thoughts as they came.

I'm out until Monday, so won't be able to reply until then, but do want to get it back on the original topic. We need to create jobs for our people. Who can we to do it without the governement involved?

 

[EagleCowboy]

OK, firstly, out-sourcing occurs because it's simply cheaper to produce something elsewhere. You live in a proudly capitalist country, a country which has used it's predominance to impose capitalism on the world; one of the basic principles of capitalism is that companies must produce at the lowest possible price and sell for the highest possible price consumers will pay. China simply produces things much more cheaply than the U.S. Tax incentives have almost nothing to do with it, and I'm almost certain U.S. tax incentives to out-source don't exist, they don't need to, simple capitalist economics would force U.S. companies to import Chinese manufactured goods anyway.

Secondly, asserting that China hates the U.S. is infantile. The Chinese government bailed the U.S. out to the tune of many many hundreds of billions of dollars when the U.S. economy hit the buffers in 2008.

In fact the Chinese are so heavily invested in trying to keep the U.S economy afloat that they recently issued statements chastising Congress for not effectively dealing with the current debt crisis in the U.S. It did so because if the U.S. economy fails China's economy will also take a massive hit.

Do you really think that if China hated the U.S. is would expose itself to such a vast risk? Surely it would ignore common sense and allow it's hatred to overrule basic economic prudence and simply have allowed the U.S.A. to go down the tubes ages ago, no?

Seriously, get real.

Dude, you're not an American, so you can't know all our business. HUGE tax breaks/incentives are given TO business to do exactly that. Outsource. And while you make a valid point that having something made much more cheaply in another country is the right business strategy, I can't argue that. But you can't expect and demand that the people you purposely put out of a job buy your product. And that's exactly what they do here. And when you don't buy it because you're broke, they want to whine and cry. Then you got big business bailouts, I.E. GM/Chrysler.

As for China, saying that they don't like the US isn't infantile. It's a fact. Pretty much the only reason they interact with US is for business. That's it. They're just trying to make money same as any other country.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

As for China, saying that they don't like the US isn't infantile. It's a fact. Pretty much the only reason they interact with US is for business. That's it. They're just trying to make money same as any other country.

You didn't say that the Chinese don't like the U.S. (though even that is debatable, especially since we're discussing 1.3 billion people) you said they hate the U.S. Those are completely different assertions. They imply completely different foreign policy objectives.


But like I say, I'm not really going tot take part in this conversation any more, because it's dived off the deep end into lunacy.

 

[Bbucko]

You didn't say that the Chinese don't like the U.S. (though even that is debatable, especially since we're discussing 1.3 billion people) you said they hate the U.S. Those are completely different assertions. They imply completely different foreign policy objectives.


But like I say, I'm not really going tot take part in this conversation any more, because it's dived off the deep end into lunacy.

IMO it started there