Madonna and her 'Celebration'

[D_Dick_Dock_Doe]

pah...lol

as a personality, icon, and a former great pop star? yes, she is absolutely still relevant.

as a maker of great pop tunes and worthwhile music?

not even close.

While I agree with Oh_Yeah that like/dislike of music and art is completely subjective, to write of one of the greatest pop music artists/entertainers/icons of the 20th/21st centuries as no longer relevant seems a bit off-base and smacks of personal disdain for said artist. It is a well-known fact that American mainstream radio - owned by HUGE corporate conglomerates - plays music based on corporate playlists and what "research" and "focus groups" tell them is "hot" or "relevant." Mainstream radio doesn't give a rat's ass about giving bands and artists equal time, or giving listeners a chance to make up their own minds about songs. They make up listeners' minds for them. This is the sad state of American music. MUCH of this behavior, IMO, is what leads people to think that Madonna is no longer relevant. Her music continues to be great pop music. Why does she continue to sell-out concert venues all over the world? The U.S seems to be the one place where success has recently eluded her.

Everyone is free to like or dislike an artist. But to say that Madonna is not talented or no longer relevant seems to me to be based on nothing but personal bias. I may not like Mariah Carey, but she has an incredible voice. I may not care for much hip hop, but I would never say that someone was "irrelevant" just because I didn't care for his or her music. Personally, I think a lot of people slag off on Madonna because it's the "cool" thing to do.

 

[D_Stanford Dedwillie III]

She's got the brains of a poussin and the morals of a slut!....

Slut [noun]: women who celebrates her sexuality

Nothing wrong with sluts, bro.

 

[SilverTrain]

While I agree with Oh_Yeah that like/dislike of music and art is completely subjective, to write of one of the greatest pop music artists/entertainers/icons of the 20th/21st centuries as no longer relevant seems a bit off-base and smacks of personal disdain for said artist. It is a well-known fact that American mainstream radio - owned by HUGE corporate conglomerates - plays music based on corporate playlists and what "research" and "focus groups" tell them is "hot" or "relevant." Mainstream radio doesn't give a rat's ass about giving bands and artists equal time, or giving listeners a chance to make up their own minds about songs. They make up listeners' minds for them. This is the sad state of American music. MUCH of this behavior, IMO, is what leads people to think that Madonna is no longer relevant. Her music continues to be great pop music. Why does she continue to sell-out concert venues all over the world? The U.S seems to be the one place where success has recently eluded her.

Everyone is free to like or dislike an artist. But to say that Madonna is not talented or no longer relevant seems to me to be based on nothing but personal bias. I may not like Mariah Carey, but she has an incredible voice. I may not care for much hip hop, but I would never say that someone was "irrelevant" just because I didn't care for his or her music. Personally, I think a lot of people slag off on Madonna because it's the "cool" thing to do.

Where's that "eating popcorn" emoticon again?

 

[SilverTrain]

While I agree with Oh_Yeah that like/dislike of music and art is completely subjective, to write of one of the greatest pop music artists/entertainers/icons of the 20th/21st centuries as no longer relevant seems a bit off-base and smacks of personal disdain for said artist. It is a well-known fact that American mainstream radio - owned by HUGE corporate conglomerates - plays music based on corporate playlists and what "research" and "focus groups" tell them is "hot" or "relevant." Mainstream radio doesn't give a rat's ass about giving bands and artists equal time, or giving listeners a chance to make up their own minds about songs. They make up listeners' minds for them. This is the sad state of American music. MUCH of this behavior, IMO, is what leads people to think that Madonna is no longer relevant. Her music continues to be great pop music. Why does she continue to sell-out concert venues all over the world? The U.S seems to be the one place where success has recently eluded her.

Everyone is free to like or dislike an artist. But to say that Madonna is not talented or no longer relevant seems to me to be based on nothing but personal bias. I may not like Mariah Carey, but she has an incredible voice. I may not care for much hip hop, but I would never say that someone was "irrelevant" just because I didn't care for his or her music. Personally, I think a lot of people slag off on Madonna because it's the "cool" thing to do.

Doh, double post.

 

[SilverTrain]

Slut [noun]: women who celebrates her sexuality

From Merriam-Webster's (slut - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)

1 chiefly British : a slovenly woman
2 a : a promiscuous woman; especially : prostitute b : a saucy girl : minx
— slut·tish \ˈslə-tish\ adjective
— slut·tish·ly adverb
— slut·tish·ness noun
— slut·ty \ˈslə-tē\ adjective

 

[D_Dick_Dock_Doe]

HAHA! There's nothing to argue. You either like someone or you do not. I just don't get why people tend to be so bitchy about Madonna. As Ali G said "I still DEFINITELY would."

 

[Flashy]

: a saucy girl

don't be saucy with me Bernaise

 

[Flashy]

While I agree with Oh_Yeah that like/dislike of music and art is completely subjective, to write of one of the greatest pop music artists/entertainers/icons of the 20th/21st centuries as no longer relevant seems a bit off-base and smacks of personal disdain for said artist. It is a well-known fact that American mainstream radio - owned by HUGE corporate conglomerates - plays music based on corporate playlists and what "research" and "focus groups" tell them is "hot" or "relevant." Mainstream radio doesn't give a rat's ass about giving bands and artists equal time, or giving listeners a chance to make up their own minds about songs. They make up listeners' minds for them. This is the sad state of American music. MUCH of this behavior, IMO, is what leads people to think that Madonna is no longer relevant. Her music continues to be great pop music. Why does she continue to sell-out concert venues all over the world? The U.S seems to be the one place where success has recently eluded her.

Everyone is free to like or dislike an artist. But to say that Madonna is not talented or no longer relevant seems to me to be based on nothing but personal bias. I may not like Mariah Carey, but she has an incredible voice. I may not care for much hip hop, but I would never say that someone was "irrelevant" just because I didn't care for his or her music. Personally, I think a lot of people slag off on Madonna because it's the "cool" thing to do.

obviously, you did not read my previous post, regarding my like and appreciation for her early music.

but yes, as an artist and a musician, she is indeed irrelevant these days...much the same as Pink Floyd is, Jimmy Page is, Smokey Robinson is.

that does not mean that they are not great or disparage what they once were...it is merely a fact.

my "personal disdain" of MAdonna has only to do with the absurd personality and charicature she has turned herself in to, not the once great music she produced 20 some years ago.

and just because you sell out concerts does not mean the music you are making today is still relevant.

as evidenced by the fact that The Rolling Stones are still touring, the Eagles tour, etc.

i am curious...at MAdonna's shows, how many of her old hits does she play?

would people go see her show if she did not sing one sing written pre-2003?

would i go to a Stones show if they announced they were not going to play a single song written before 1985? Hell no.

people are going for nostalgia, not for the new music.

same as people who still go to Barbra Streisand shows.

and yes, Madonna is just like that. no longer artistically relevant...but relevant to people who want to celebrate what she produced in the past.

*NOSTALGIA*

why the hell did the Spice Girls sell out their little reunion? Are they still artistically relevant? Was there some catchy new tune, that had everyone shrieking "Girl Power"?

of course not.

nowhere did i say that Madonna was "not talented".

i said she was no longer artistically relevant, which she isn't. i said she produced great pop music, and i listed a huge list of songs of hers that i enjoyed very much in the 80s, and still do when i hear them.

so you can take your allegations of "personal bias" and throw them out the window, and actually read what people say.

 

[D_Stanford Dedwillie III]

From Merriam-Webster's (slut - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)

1 chiefly British : a slovenly woman
2 a : a promiscuous woman; especially : prostitute b : a saucy girl : minx
— slut·tish \ˈslə-tish\ adjective
— slut·tish·ly adverb
— slut·tish·ness noun
— slut·ty \ˈslə-tē\ adjective

I don't have a problem with either definition:wink:

 

[D_Dick_Dock_Doe]

obviously, you did not read my previous post, regarding my like and appreciation for her early music.

but yes, as an artist and a musician, she is indeed irrelevant these days...much the same as Pink Floyd is, Jimmy Page is, Smokey Robinson is.

that does not mean that they are not great or disparage what they once were...it is merely a fact.

my "personal disdain" of MAdonna has only to do with the absurd personality and charicature she has turned herself in to, not the once great music she produced 20 some years ago.

and just because you sell out concerts does not mean the music you are making today is still relevant.

as evidenced by the fact that The Rolling Stones are still touring, the Eagles tour, etc.

i am curious...at MAdonna's shows, how many of her old hits does she play?

would people go see her show if she did not sing one sing written pre-2003?

would i go to a Stones show if they announced they were not going to play a single song written before 1985? Hell no.

people are going for nostalgia, not for the new music.

same as people who still go to Barbra Streisand shows.

and yes, Madonna is just like that. no longer artistically relevant...but relevant to people who want to celebrate what she produced in the past.

*NOSTALGIA*

why the hell did the Spice Girls sell out their little reunion? Are they still artistically relevant? Was there some catchy new tune, that had everyone shrieking "Girl Power"?

of course not.

nowhere did i say that Madonna was "not talented".

i said she was no longer artistically relevant, which she isn't. i said she produced great pop music, and i listed a huge list of songs of hers that i enjoyed very much in the 80s, and still do when i hear them.

so you can take your allegations of "personal bias" and throw them out the window, and actually read what people say.

Whoa...did I hit a nerve? I DID read your stuff before...and I happen to disagree with you. That's what a debate is. You may not have said Madonna was "not talented," but your disdain - and yes, it is disdain - for her implies such. It's very easy for people who aren't in the spotlight to pass judgment on others. It's one of America's favorite pastimes. What some may see as an "absurd personality" or "caricature" (I spelled it right for you) can be seen by someone else as a person who happens to live their life in the spotlight. What would people think about you or I if we lived our lives so publicly?

As for being relevant, the whole idea of "relevance" in the American pop music landscape is completely ridiculous when what is considered "relevant" is already decided for you before you get a chance to hear something.

Sorry, bro, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. No harm done.

 

[D_Percival Puddleford Pukehorn]

On the album, I agree...although the track Frozen was extraordinary, and the video wasn't too shabby either.

.

actually looking back that video is alright. even the video director Chris cunningham stated that the video didn't turn out the way he wanted it to mainly because of madonna's need to control it. he figured she's a performer and wants to perform while he was thinking of doing something else. He also stated he won't work with her again and never has.

 

[D_Mansworthy Meatwrench III]

At her age, you gotta do whatever you can to make some bucks.

Knowing her, the next phase will be called "Streetwalker".
After all, she used to do it for free en masse, no reason she can't get paid for it.

She is as relevant to the world as the Clap & Dripping Dong.
Not to mention Trench Foot.
Meaning, she is always there, burning and itching.
All the time, making me start bitching.

She is like a sore peter.
You can't beat it.
Etc., Etc.
I hope she makes a ton of money.
That way, she will shut the hell up.
Here's to you, Madonna!

 

[Flashy]

Whoa...did I hit a nerve? I DID read your stuff before...and I happen to disagree with you. That's what a debate is. You may not have said Madonna was "not talented," but your disdain - and yes, it is disdain - for her implies such. It's very easy for people who aren't in the spotlight to pass judgment on others. It's one of America's favorite pastimes. What some may see as an "absurd personality" or "caricature" (I spelled it right for you) can be seen by someone else as a person who happens to live their life in the spotlight. What would people think about you or I if we lived our lives so publicly?

As for being relevant, the whole idea of "relevance" in the American pop music landscape is completely ridiculous when what is considered "relevant" is already decided for you before you get a chance to hear something.

Sorry, bro, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. No harm done.

indeed, a debate is a debate...that does not mean you have the right to lie about what someone said which yes, hits a nerve. your sheepish half/pseudo admission that you were wrong and lied about me saying she was "not talented", you then turned into a diatribe about the implications of what i *DID* say in your attempt to get out of your error (or lie)


nowhere does my "disdain" for the obnoxious persona she cultivates say anything about her talent nor does it imply it....especially considering i said this:


her music was really excellent in the 80s through early 90s...probably the highest quality pop there ever was...but like almost all musicians, you can only maintain your highest quality music for perhaps a decade or so.

i always look back on her early stuff fondly, as it reminds me of my earliest girlfriends, who all loved her back then...

borderline
burning up
lucky star
like a virgin
holiday
Angel
material girl
over and over
into the groove
gambler
crazy for you
dress you up
who's that girl
Open your heart
true blue
La isla bonita
where's the party
live to tell
cherish
express yourself
deeper and deeper

those are all fun, great pop...that is an incredible amount of great tunes for one artist


----

there is no implication whatsoever...you have just chosen to use it that way. since you already lied about me saying she was not talented, when i said no such thing.

frankly, saying someone's was "really excellent" and "probably the highest quality pop there ever was" then listing 21 songs that i stated was excellent and looked back fondly on, and were "an incredible amount of great tunes for one artist"

says quite the opposite.

unless "excellence, highest quality, fun, great, incredible" are the words you would use to imply that the person who created them was "not talented"

disagree all you want, but you lied about what i said, then tried to turn my dislike for her persona, into a treatise on fame, and then attempt to twist it into me "implying" she was not talented, which was the initial lie you chose.

as for your childish and pedantic spelling correction of me typing too quickly to proofread:

i suppose or "caricature" (I spelled it right for you)

if you want to play that obnoxious game, fine...

http://www.lpsg.org/69330-pitbull-the-rapper-bulge-post2338430.html#post2338430

"pitbull" and "represent" (I spelled them right for you...or were you just being "hip" with the "z" in "repreZent")

 

[NovaBone]

I think her album "Bedtime Stories" was way underrated and many are unfamiliar with it. She collaborated with Babyface to create a smooth, sexy and solid album. To this day, it's one of my most played CDs . And I own LOTS of CDs!

 

[D_Percival Puddleford Pukehorn]

Bad girl is her BEST video in my opinion. too bad it wasn't included in the celebration video compilation:

YouTube - Madonna - Bad Girl

 

[Bbucko]

Madonna rescued pop music for me from her first song. She pulled me from my post-punk pose and, by the time Like A Virgin came out, she was the undisputed queen of her medium.

That medium, more than her music, was video. If her songs were occasionally (if not generally) flaccid, her videos were always cutting edge. I think MTV owes her for their success in turning what could easily have been a fad into a generation's television of note. Her ability to both define and transcend the 3-4 minute music video will probably be her most important legacy.

In the late 80s I had a roommate who wrote his master's thesis about her and her influence over pop culture generally. Nothing seemed to be beyond her abilities. After the singular success of Desperately Seeking Susan, her movie career hit the skids. I never understood how someone who can come across so well in music videos can be such a horribly, profoundly shitty actress. Her only other cinematic work worth mentioning, Evita, is kind of a 2+ hour long video, too.

I was living in Paris when Justify Your Love came out. Despite being banned on MTV, it was shown by request on an after-school call-in request show on France's channel 4. I never really understood why it was considered obscene: cheeky, sure but obscene never.

I still have my copy of her book Sex, which needed to be advance-ordered at the time. I remember being both enthralled by the concept and disappointed by the lack of homoerotic imagery. It's still an odd thing to have. It's too graphic for most coffee tables but not explicit enough to be porn.

Erotica was the last CD of hers I bought the moment it came out, and I still consider most of it to be a masterwork (Fever I can live without; she doesn't do covers well at all). Life pressed on, I developed other circles of friends, and Madge seemed just a little old-hat on one hand and churlishly provocative on the other.

Ray of Light was something of a renewal for me. It was both very Madonna and very new at the same time. I had a car copy and a house copy. It was one of the first CDs that I burned into a computer. But her follow-ups were pedestrian. Music was only good for the acoustic stuff; American Life was dreadful.

Confessions On The Dancefloor actually lived up to the hype and defines a very specific period and mindframe in my life: newly single after almost ten years. It hasn't aged wll for me, but maybe that's because I'm reminded a bit too much of the mistakes I made at that time. Hard Candy was just lifeless. I feel bad for anyone who actually bought a copy.

Her whole London period will be something quickly passed over, I think. Whatever the good she may have gleaned from her marriage to Guy Ritchie (at the very least her sons Rocco and David), she seemed to be to be fundamentally unsatisfied and in search mode; I don't think she was ever really at home there.

I gonna bet that she still has at least 20 years of career left. You can count on more surprises, more drama and more Madge.

 

[D_Dick_Dock_Doe]

indeed, a debate is a debate...that does not mean you have the right to lie about what someone said which yes, hits a nerve. your sheepish half/pseudo admission that you were wrong and lied about me saying she was "not talented", you then turned into a diatribe about the implications of what i *DID* say in your attempt to get out of your error (or lie)


nowhere does my "disdain" for the obnoxious persona she cultivates say anything about her talent nor does it imply it....especially considering i said this:


her music was really excellent in the 80s through early 90s...probably the highest quality pop there ever was...but like almost all musicians, you can only maintain your highest quality music for perhaps a decade or so.

i always look back on her early stuff fondly, as it reminds me of my earliest girlfriends, who all loved her back then...

borderline
burning up
lucky star
like a virgin
holiday
Angel
material girl
over and over
into the groove
gambler
crazy for you
dress you up
who's that girl
Open your heart
true blue
La isla bonita
where's the party
live to tell
cherish
express yourself
deeper and deeper

those are all fun, great pop...that is an incredible amount of great tunes for one artist


----

there is no implication whatsoever...you have just chosen to use it that way. since you already lied about me saying she was not talented, when i said no such thing.

frankly, saying someone's was "really excellent" and "probably the highest quality pop there ever was" then listing 21 songs that i stated was excellent and looked back fondly on, and were "an incredible amount of great tunes for one artist"

says quite the opposite.

unless "excellence, highest quality, fun, great, incredible" are the words you would use to imply that the person who created them was "not talented"

disagree all you want, but you lied about what i said, then tried to turn my dislike for her persona, into a treatise on fame, and then attempt to twist it into me "implying" she was not talented, which was the initial lie you chose.

as for your childish and pedantic spelling correction of me typing too quickly to proofread:

if you want to play that obnoxious game, fine...

http://www.lpsg.org/69330-pitbull-the-rapper-bulge-post2338430.html#post2338430

"pitbull" and "represent" (I spelled them right for you...or were you just being "hip" with the "z" in "repreZent")

I can't believe we're arguing back and forth about this. I'm sorry you see my interpretation of your various remarks as me attempting to "lie," and my response as an "attempt to get out of (my) error." As for my spelling, mea culpa. You got me on the spelling of "pitbull." You are hereby a better person than I am.

I really don't understand your attitude. I apologize if I gave you the wrong impression. I was simply trying to engage you in a conversation and to try and draw out what, I believe, is often an unfounded disdain for Madonna held by many people...specifically in the U.S. Perhaps I went about it in the wrong way. That said, there's no reason to get nasty and accuse me of lying.

 

[D_Percival Puddleford Pukehorn]

Madonna rescued pop music for me from her first song. She pulled me from my post-punk pose and, by the time Like A Virgin came out, she was the undisputed queen of her medium.

That medium, more than her music, was video. If her songs were occasionally (if not generally) flaccid, her videos were always cutting edge. I think MTV owes her for their success in turning what could easily have been a fad into a generation's television of note. Her ability to both define and transcend the 3-4 minute music video will probably be her most important legacy.

In the late 80s I had a roommate who wrote his master's thesis about her and her influence over pop culture generally. Nothing seemed to be beyond her abilities. After the singular success of Desperately Seeking Susan, her movie career hit the skids. I never understood how someone who can come across so well in music videos can be such a horribly, profoundly shitty actress. Her only other cinematic work worth mentioning, Evita, is kind of a 2+ hour long video, too.

I was living in Paris when Justify Your Love came out. Despite being banned on MTV, it was shown by request on an after-school call-in request show on France's channel 4. I never really understood why it was considered obscene: cheeky, sure but obscene never.

I still have my copy of her book Sex, which needed to be advance-ordered at the time. I remember being both enthralled by the concept and disappointed by the lack of homoerotic imagery. It's still an odd thing to have. It's too graphic for most coffee tables but not explicit enough to be porn.

Erotica was the last CD of hers I bought the moment it came out, and I still consider most of it to be a masterwork (Fever I can live without; she doesn't do covers well at all). Life pressed on, I developed other circles of friends, and Madge seemed just a little old-hat on one hand and churlishly provocative on the other.

Ray of Light was something of a renewal for me. It was both very Madonna and very new at the same time. I had a car copy and a house copy. It was one of the first CDs that I burned into a computer. But her follow-ups were pedestrian. Music was only good for the acoustic stuff; American Life was dreadful.

Confessions On The Dancefloor actually lived up to the hype and defines a very specific period and mindframe in my life: newly single after almost ten years. It hasn't aged wll for me, but maybe that's because I'm reminded a bit too much of the mistakes I made at that time. Hard Candy was just lifeless. I feel bad for anyone who actually bought a copy.

Her whole London period will be something quickly passed over, I think. Whatever the good she may have gleaned from her marriage to Guy Ritchie (at the very least her sons Rocco and David), she seemed to be to be fundamentally unsatisfied and in search mode; I don't think she was ever really at home there.

I gonna bet that she still has at least 20 years of career left. You can count on more surprises, more drama and more Madge.

wow very well said!

I also do think that we have a lot to see from Madonna in the future. I don't think 20 years but at least 10. :wink:

I began to write her off by the time she did bedtime stories/evita thinking that she can't possibly push this any further and then voila she has!

I think she'll be more successful as a film director. Perhaps an oscar nod maybe in the best director category?? who knows.

As for her music, i do wish she'd give up the pop candy shit. I mean she's not 25 anymore! And those new songs Celebration and revolver are horrible! I'd like to see her do a more mature pop record possibly produced by someone like Rupert Hine. Either that or a more avante-garde record which I feel it's in her! I mean check out songs like Paradise not for me and mer girl....utterly brilliant!

 

[whatireallywant]

Everyone is free to like or dislike an artist. But to say that Madonna is not talented or no longer relevant seems to me to be based on nothing but personal bias. I may not like Mariah Carey, but she has an incredible voice. I may not care for much hip hop, but I would never say that someone was "irrelevant" just because I didn't care for his or her music. Personally, I think a lot of people slag off on Madonna because it's the "cool" thing to do.

I've seen this too. I see this with other pop artists too. I joke about losing indie cred because I also like Lady Gaga and Justin Timberlake. As for Madonna, I like some of her songs and not others. I love "Ray of Light" and the fast dance songs like that. I also loved "Vogue" and "La Isla Bonita". I liked "Borderline" and "Lucky Star", not quite as much but still liked them. I absolutely HATE "Papa Don't Preach". I didn't like "Material Girl" either - however, after reading a book of "Misheard Lyrics", I can listen to the song with a big smirk on my face, but please don't ask me to explain why I have a smirk on my face if I hear the song at work! (I work in retail now and we have background music, and yes, sometimes "Material Girl" does play in the background...)

The particular lyric mishearing: The actual lyric goes something like "If he can't raise my interest I'd better let him be". The MISHEARD lyric goes "If he can't raise nine inches I'd better let him be". :biggrin1: (Obviously not safe for work! ha ha...) I had to leave the bookstore where I was looking through the misheard lyrics book that contained that - I was keeling over laughing!

I've also been talking lately about Madonna being 50 and her boyfriend being 22. THIS 46 year old woman is LOVING that! :biggrin1:

Slut [noun]: women who celebrates her sexuality

Nothing wrong with sluts, bro.

QFT!!! :smile: Sluts are just people who have more sex than you do.

 

[798686]

My "personal disdain" of Madonna has only to do with the absurd personality and caricature she has turned herself in to, not the once great music she produced 20 some years ago.

I agree. I personally would like her to go through a more upmarket, grown up phase. Do some classy music in her own style - not pandering to what she thinks current trends are - plus work on her voice a bit. She could definitely do with going into a more sophisticated, less trashy mode.

I'd like to see her do a more mature pop record possibly...either that or a more avante-garde record which I feel it's in her!

Yup, that's my feeling too. Quality mature pop, maybe produced by Trentemoller, with an introspective, futuristic (and possibly edgy) feel.