Majority of American Reject Theory of Evolution

[DC_DEEP]

Yes but don't forget you were once a single cell....and now you're full of shit too!!:tongue:

Actually, no, I was never a single cell; two at minimum (I didn't actually become me until both a sperm and an egg decided to jitterbug, right?)

 

[JustAsking]

Wierdly enough we were all talking about this at work the other day and concluded that in terms of dangerous religious nuttery the list goes as follows:
1. Christians.
2. Taliban muslims.
3. Everyone else except...
4. Buddhists.

In fact, how dangerous can a Buddhist fanatic be? "I will help you against your will!" "No, please have mercy on me oddly kind and helpful stranger!" :tongue:

Yes, Jesus said exactly the same thing. Take the Priest, Levite, and Samaritan in the Good Samaritan parable and replace them with two Fundamentalists of any religion (especially Moslem or Christian these days) and your Buddhist or even better, an Atheist. The moral of the story is that compassion (even without religion) is infinitely better than moralizing by-the-book religion (dangerous religious nuttery, as you say) for its own sake. Oh yes, for it to resonate properly in our time, consider half dead guy lying in the road to be gay.

If Jesus were around the water cooler with you guys at work during that conversation, he would buy you a drink and tell you that you just figured out all you need to know.

 

[dong20]

Actually, no, I was never a single cell; two at minimum (I didn't actually become me until both a sperm and an egg decided to jitterbug, right?)

Hmm....well as the male sperm fuses with the ovum to form a single 'new' fertilised diploid cell (zygote)....lets just say you are the combined product of a merger of two former cells......but you're still full of shit...:tongue: :biggrin1:

 

[madame_zora]

If Jesus were around the water cooler with you guys at work during that conversation, he would buy you a drink and tell you that you just figured out all you need to know.

JA, consider this a proposal of marriage.

 

[JustAsking]

JA, consider this a proposal of marriage.

I have to tell you I snore loudly, though. That's not a problem, right?

 

[madame_zora]

I have to tell you I snore loudly, though. That's not a problem, right?

Hmm, better think this through- I like you too much to smother you in your sleep.

 

[madame_zora]

Here's an interesting read- not all representatives of "the church" support fundamentalism, in fact here it is warned against:



http://www.livescience.com/othernews/ap_051103_vatican.html

 

[JustAsking]

Here's an interesting read- not all representatives of "the church" support fundamentalism, in fact here it is warned against:



http://www.livescience.com/othernews/ap_051103_vatican.html

MZ,
Yes indeed. As I said the other day, most of the world's Christians belong to denominations whose theology finds no conflict with science. For example,

Evolution and the Pope.

From the Catholic Catechism:

"The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies that have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers" (CCC 283).​

Episcopal Church's Catechism of Creation

Lutheran's Amazing Martin Marty. This is an interview in Tikkun magazine, a progressive Jewish periodical. If you want to hear how a modern and real Christian theologan thinks, read this interview.

Article by Dr. George Murphy, a Lutheran Pastor and a well known writer on science and religion. He has a Phd in Physics.

This list could go on and on. Not to upstage you Mme. Zora, but this is something I am passionate about. Thanks for posting that article. I just want people to see that its only those who have a very immature view of both science and religion that see any kind of conflict between the two. Oh yeah, the fundamentalists who just have simple minds to begin with also think there is a conflict.

In summary:
1) There is no controversy about evolution in the scientific community.
2) There is no controversy about evolution amongst the mainstream Christian denominations.
3) Only people who are ignorant about both science and religion think there is a controversy.

 

[JustAsking]

Oh yeah, I forgot:

Presbyterian Church on Evolution

 

[madame_zora]

Just asking, are you one of those nazi pinko fags? Are you sure you got your facts straight?

1) There is no controversy about evolution in the scientific community.

Well, aren't all scientists godless liberal heathens?

2) There is no controversy about evolution amongst the mainstream Christian denominations.

Lies!

3) Only people who are ignorant about both science and religion think there is a controversy.

Okay, I'll stop being retarded now. This last point needed to be responded to, as it sums up the truth about the world we live in. We have been tolerating and promoting ignorance in both realms for the last several years, and these are the results we've gotten. While most mainstream religous groups actually do believe in evolution, the fundamentalists are so fucking vocal, it's easy to believe that they are a majority, when they are not.

EVEN SO, even if they WERE a majority, why would it be okay to promote a flat-world theory? Why would it be socially necessary not to laugh in the face of a retarded idea? In my less than humble view, the degree to which we've become politically correct has acted to our severe detriment one too many times. No, sorry, evolution, relativity, gravity- these "theories" are scientific truths, plain and simple. How ANY sensible human being could deny evolution escapes me, ALL species evolve, what's so fucking tough about that?

Oh, I get it, these are the same imbeciles who believe God flies around the sky in a long robe and a white beard! Haha, if you had any respect at all for the God you claim to worship, don't you think it *might* be a good idea to figure out who or what he is? Or do you randomly go falling in love with people you know nothing about? Science shouldn't threaten your FAITH, but it sure does threaten your fantasies.

If I was interesting enough for people to still be talking about me 2000 years from now, I wonder how off-base the Madame Zora stories would be? I'm RIGHT HERE now and there are morons who don't understand a thing I say and question my gender. Poor Jesus, he doesn't stand a chance with the simple minded. They'd much rather believe the fantasies than take the time to try to comprehend what he did with his life, he was actually quite amazing, and being a MAN made it all the more so. Any of us could choose not to be over-fed, self-indulgent, self-righteous assholes- we just don't get it. He suggested we should be willing givers, love our brothers as ourselves (actually, he said that was his only commandment), care for the weak, and stop judging each other, lest God judge us by the same measure.

Does anyone understand that the personification of God exists in every religion, in terms and social context relevant to that society? Do you really think everyone else but you is wrong? Nonsense! Every culture searches for truth about our orirgins and the reason for our existance. These personifications exist to give us peace while we're sorting things out, it won't invalidate God to find out what he is! It will only make us MORE able to love our life and use it wisely. And as for the messiahs who have tried to bring us hope throughout the ages, nothing could invalidate the sacrifices they made to bring us further along in our understanding, even if they didn't each have it exactly right. They each added to our understanding of the world and offered us challenges to the conventional thinking of the time, and that's a beautiful thing. Jesus never wanted blind followers, he pleaded with us to open our minds, and our hearts to those who were suffering. He completely changed our paradigm about God- formerly viewed as an angry taskmaster. Perhaps the next messiah will have a few more things on the ball, and that's the way we grow. God knows we're not at a place where the majority are prepared to do their own thinking yet.

 

[JustAsking]

What she said. ^ ^ ^ ^

 

[JustAsking]

Just asking, are you one of those nazi pinko fags?

No worse. I am a Christian liberal. In Ann Coulter's economy, that might be worse than being gay.

 

[findfirefox]

No worse. I am a Christian liberal. In Ann Coulter's economy, that might be worse than being gay.

EVERYBODY RUN AWAY!

 

[SpeedoGuy]

Only people who are ignorant about both science and religion think there is a controversy.

And there we have it. Wingnuts everywhere are laboring mightily to spread ignorance and distrust in order to fabricate the impression that science is desperately hiding the fact that evolution has been discredited.

They've been suprisingly successful.

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

I bet Dawkins would call them "meme terroists".

 

[titan1968]

A sad, but true, commentary on the state of education in the U.S. system. Further, let us not forget that of the students who do graduate from high school, the U.S. students consistently turn in among the lowest test scores of all the industrialized nations. Rigor in academic subjects, particularly science, is so much higher in European and Asian school systems it should be a national embarrassment.

No wonder myths are debated here as if they are on equal footing with mountains of observable evidence.

SG

I believe in creation and evolution (I'm a Roman Catholic and biologist)-- both are not mutually exclusive. As far as I'm concerned, one cannot believe in one theory without believing in the other. Evolution cannot exist without creation-- they are two halves of one truth. We are conceived (i.e.created), we are born and we grow physically and emotionally (i.e. evolve).

I also believe that we should encourage people to read more-- there is so much out there! The more one reads, the more open one's mind becomes.

I have read that Canadians read a lot-- we are second only to Iceland, and do well in standardised tests. However, considering that a large segment of the Canadian population is functionally illiterate, there is plenty of work to be done.

If the present Canadian government (Conservative minority, pro-Bush), put as much effort in fighting illiteracy, poverty and global warming as it does in fighting 'terrorists', Canada would be a much better place to live in.

Titan1968

 

[JustAsking]

I believe in creation and evolution (I'm a Roman Catholic and biologist)-- both are not mutually exclusive. As far as I'm concerned, one cannot believe in one theory without believing in the other. Evolution cannot exist without creation-- they are two halves of one truth. We are conceived (i.e.created), we are born and we grow physically and emotionally (i.e. evolve).

Titan,
Yes, I think most of the mainstream denominations are with you on that in the form of what they call Theistic Evolution. This is why the last four Popes are quite content to find no conflict between science and religion. I believe as strongly in evolution as one means God has created the diversity of life as I believe in God's creating the universe from nothing (Big Bang as part of the process) as well as God's continual creative work in the universe.

My complaint is with the narrow fundamentalist idea of Creationism where a literal interpretation of Genesis replaces science. This is both really bad science and really bad theology.

As to your suggestion that Canadians might be more enlightened about this in general, perhaps due to reading habits, has some merit. I believe that unique events in US history have led to a long-time anti-intellectualism which now has acquired a lot of political power and a large influence over the public in general. I just finished a really good book called, American Theocracy, where the author implies that much of this is due to the Civil War and the way in which the South recovered by reshaping their society into a kind of ethnic group whose culture is very distinct from the North.

So although you can find similiarities in Conservative politics and thought between the US and Canada, there are unique aspects of it in the US that is causing this dis-Enlightenment phenomenom to a much larger degree in the US. Sadly, it may be leaking across the border and infecting Canadian conservatism. And there are signs that Australia seems to be a bit susceptible to it as well.

Allow me to apologize to the rest of the world for the fact that ignorance and supersition have become one of my country's chief exports to the rest of the world.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

So although you can find similiarities in Conservative politics and thought between the US and Canada, there are unique aspects of it in the US that is causing this dis-Enlightenment phenomenom to a much larger degree in the US. Sadly, it may be leaking across the border and infecting Canadian conservatism. And there are signs that Australia seems to be a bit susceptible to it as well.

Yes, sadly, I think that Canadian conservatives are savaged by a certain enchantment with their American brothers.

The current government, The Conservatives, was formed by the merger of the Reform Party and the Progressive Conservatives. There is no question that Reformers were more of an American right-wing political persuasion than Canadians at large, and even of the Conservative movement as a whole.

(Alberta, the birthplace of Reform, has often been called the most American province. For the sake of full disclosure, I should say I am an Albertan born, but somehow never infected.)

Unfortunately, the current leader, Stephen Harper, was a Reformer, and at least in past years has taken great inspiration from American Republicans, it seems to me.

But he's too intelligent to import that holus bolus from the States, because he knows that Canadians won't swallow it.

But the sense that his real program -- a very right-wing one -- is hidden and camouflaged gives no great comfort to more Liberal Canadians.

Harper said, years ago, you give us the government for five years and you won't recognize this country.

Fortunately, those words are easier to utter while in the political wilderness than when one's own hands hold the reins of power.

 

[dong20]

THIS JUST IN : DARWINS TURTLE DIES.....TAKES EVOLUTION SECRETS TO GRAVE....AUTHORITIES SUSPECT CREATIONISTS

 

[JustAsking]

This just in from the Episcopalians: Resolution A129 just approved:

Resolved, That the 75th General Convention affirm that God is Creator, in accordance with the witness of Scripture and the ancient Creeds of the Church; and be it further,

Resolved, That the theory of evolution provides a fruitful and unifying scientific explanation for the emergence of life on earth, and that an acceptance of evolution in no way diminishes the centrality of Scripture in telling the stories of the love of God for the Creation and is entirely compatible with an authentic and living Christian faith; and be it further

Resolved, That Episcopalians strongly encourage state legislatures and state and local boards of education to establish standards for science education based on the best available scientific knowledge as accepted by a consensus of the scientific community; and be it further

Resolved, That Episcopal dioceses and congregation seek the assistance of scientists and science educators in understanding what constitutes reliable scientific knowledge.