PREFACE I hesitate to even start this thread because I realize that this can potentially offend some gay men. So, let me start off by offering the Seinfeldian "not that there's anything wrong with it." Most gay men I have known have been wonderful people and I have no problem with gay men. Now that I have that out of the way, I hope I can proceed.... NOT EVERYTHING ABOUT MEN IS SEXUAL I decided not to go back to the thread called "frat stories" because it got too heated. But in rereading the thread, I think I have realized that what offended so many guys was the implication that frats are simply covers for gay male activity. To that, I want to offer an apology: that was never what I meant to imply. All I was suggesting was that there was homoeroticism in frats; and, by the way, I think that homoeroticism is inevitable in any environment dominated by any one gender. I think homoeroticism is inevitable when women are in an all-woman space. And I think it is inevitable when men are in an all-male space. However, I never meant to implay that homoeroticism is all that exists in college frats. I think that the reason my opinions on that other thread may've rubbed some the wrong way was because apparently some people met other males in frats that they care a lot about, and it appeared that all I was saying was that the only reason they cared about each other was because they were sexually attracted to one another. That wasn't what I meant to say at all. To close this post, I think what needs to be said is that I understand that when men get close it is not always solely sexual. I think that this is a concept that exists in the US particularly, the idea that the only reason to be close to another male is if you are sexually attracted to him. The next step in this logic is to think that any two males, or any group of males, that are close are sexually attracted to one another or in a sexual relationship. Maybe this is where the myth about circle jerks in fraternities comes from. And most likely this is why men in frats continually emphasize the word "brother" and "brotherhood" in that thread, to emphasize a non-sexual bond between the males in frats. I just wanted to post this to clear the air from that "frat stories" thread. I don't know if I'll be back, though, because I don't think I have much left to say on this topic, and I frankly don't want to get in any more arguments. PS: I should probably add that I understand that gay males can bond among themselves without the bond being necessarily sexual. And people can also bond and have the bond in part be sexual. Maybe a better title for this thread would be "there are many different levels of bonding."