Marines & Gays - it is working!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by arkfarmbear, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. arkfarmbear

    arkfarmbear New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Yesterday the news services reported that the commandant of the Marines now admits he was wrong about how openly gay soldiers would be accepted in the Marines.
    He was opposed to the new laws but now reports that he was in the war zone and had expected to get an earful from opponents but it didn't happen.
     
  2. B_jeepguy2

    B_jeepguy2 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Coast
    Are there any marines who are not gay or at least a little bi? I have heard stories from ex Marines about stuff that went on at Camp Lejeune. LOL
     
  3. pacethepace

    pacethepace New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Just west of London England.
    My experience is that most if not all gay men do not want to sleep around. Call me naive but the ones I know are looking for what others in the heterosexual world are looking for: a good healthy honest committed relationship. Yes there are those of a certain temperament who want to have sex with as many men as they can but once again I know lots of str8 men who want to get as many notches on the be belt as they can.
    The truth is most gay men go about their business living life and behaving is a polite courteous and above all professional manner; not with a who can I bed next attitude.
    I can only imagine if all the gay men and women were excluded from their employment or voluntary work or the workings of politics and finance - there would be vast dislocation in lots of countries and communities.
    Mores the pity that so many talented people were dismissed and lost to the armed forces of the US through the DADT policy. I have read many accounts of absolutely -no doubting their loyalty - Americans being discarded because of who and what they are.
    What a pool of talent to loose, and for what - sigh and exasperation on my part…fear.
    People fear what they do not know or understand., more is the pity that those in authority do not take the time to find out their perceptions and or prejudices are usually mistaken or just plain wrong.
    The Bard put it thus "If you prick us do we not bleed." Gay men and women, in whatever walk of life, are good, decent, hard working and loyal people - I talk from my own experience.
    Regards,
    Anton
     
  4. eurotop40

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,527
    Likes Received:
    124
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Zurich (ZH, CH)
    Imagine if Michelangelo had been banned from working as an artist...
     
  5. Bbucko

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,413
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunny SoFla
    I agree: being LGBT doesn't necessarily devoid one of the ability to serve one's country.
     
  6. houtx48

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    35
    Gender:
    Male
     
  7. ActionBuddy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2006
    Messages:
    7,037
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    6,413
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle (WA, US)
    What is truly ridiculous, tragic and embarrassing for the United States, since the stupid "Don't ask, Don't tell" decree, is the huge number of capable patriots that were trained as interpreters, of many languages, but, humiliated and removed from service when they admitted an attraction to their own sex... It is a crying shame, and it further endangered democracy, worldwide.

    Think of all the incidents that could have been prevented if those men and women were there to listen, understand and intervene. Shame on Clinton and Bush!
     
    #7 ActionBuddy, Nov 30, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
  8. 6inchcock

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,567
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1,148
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Look north and turn left, real sudden like
    Verified:
    Photo
    I served in the US military before and during DADT. Before the policy was implemented no one delved into your personal life after duty hours. In general terms unless someone threw themselves at the feet of the command and demanded to be discharged as a Homosexual, not too many people in the military really gave it much thought.

    During that time I recall at least one or two incidents where a third party tried to "out" someone and the commands attitude was "Captain X or Sergeant Y is a distinguished member of the command and your accusations have no basis in fact without irrefutable proof, etc". Long story short (in one case which included pictures) most commanders in their right mind didn't go on a witch hunt.

    After DADT was initiated however hundreds (probably thousands over the subsequent years) of Gay and Lesbian troops were discharged under General Conditions. The initial swoop of discharges from the policy was caused by the hoopla leading up to the policy, as gay troops thought "now is finally the time", coming out and then being caught up in the misinterpretation or mumbo jumbo of legal speak resulting in them being discharged. After the policy was initiated it just seemed like the intent to defuse something caused more harm than good.

    I served with probably half a dozen or so troops that were gay or lesbian over the years and they were generally good troops. The law should have been done away with much sooner, it was stupid.
     
  9. vibrationzzz

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    14,507
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1,347
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South East Queensland (aus)
    Hold a gun, be willing to use it, be there when your mates are in danger, to risk your life for them, listen to your mates in the most desperate of times, still bleed red. What more does a good soldier need? A great comander void of political view.
     
  10. 6inchcock

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,567
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1,148
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Look north and turn left, real sudden like
    Verified:
    Photo
    Amen..

    & four pounds of trigger pressure in their index finger too and I am with you!
     
  11. chamisaguy

    chamisaguy Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    369
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    37
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Santa Fe NM, USA
    I'm still reading on military.com comments from recalcitrant bigots and homo-haters obsessed with butt secks. Probably many are retired like me (who served before and during DADT and even had to witness some sad actions taken during that time by questionable accusations or "overheard" comments which led to some restrictions and discharges of otherwise valuable and honorable men.

    Those commenters now still use their evangelical christian religious opinions and perceived moral/religious superiority over all others' beliefs and opinions and the venom and hate drips from their words still. They see the Commandant as removed from reality, not serving in the trenches or on the ground/ship any more -- they rail on about the abomination of gays and lesbians (don't even start on the transgender issues.....!) - and threaten the immense loss of religious military members who won't reenlist or who feel persecuted because they can't violate military codes of conduct and professional military standards of behavior which apply to ALL service members.

    True, no reports at all have issued about any problems with integrating the gay/lesbian military members since the repeal of DADT -- but these commenters (many retired and "glad they're no longer in this military") continue to spew forth the tired old fear-mongering about rape in the showers, assault by gay men in the barracks, public shows of homo affections in front of military families' children (!), etc. etc. Big, brave Marines, Army solders, Air Force machos -- so afraid they'll be attacked (or wishing it, actually) by a gay man.

    I've not seen but perhaps one or two comments by women service members - and they don't preach the fear of the gay, just relate some of the phobias that they experienced as lesbians or hetero females from male military folks without repercussions. It's always the alpha male types, ole sarge, retired officers, even hateful retired chaplains that post the hate comments and lament what the great American military "has become". (eye roll)

    So - I think the Marines mostly have done what they were expected to -- and so have the other military branches. But the ugly little ones are still hurting' -- and they're still spouting off on blogs but not on official duty! Suck on that!
     
  12. sgtrock

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    318
    Albums:
    23
    Likes Received:
    52
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Southern California
    Verified:
    Photo
    As a former SGT in RECON in the Marines I am proud to say that the Marines did as I thought they would nothing. People forget that we are a cross section of America and why should be any different. As for GAY’s serving it should be no different than women serving and as long as they can pull their weight in their MOS I see no problem.

    As much as it might be exciting when you are getting shot at you really don’t have a lot of time to be thinking about sex with your fellow Marine, girlfriend, wife or anyone for that matter.

    We need to stop prejudice at all levels and in all arenas.

    As for jeepguy's statement...it doesnt deserve a responce now does it?
     
  13. houtx48

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    35
    Gender:
    Male
    I thought all Marines were bottoms.................
     
  14. ActionBuddy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2006
    Messages:
    7,037
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    6,413
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle (WA, US)
    Real funny, dude. Hope it didn't kill the thread. Great to hear the thoughts of those that were there!
     
  15. Rikter8

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    4,488
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    51
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    MI
    I'm trying to think how to phrase this without being disrespectful, but yet get my point across, so I'll do this in steps to try and make it as clear as possible so it isn't mis-construed.

    I'm grateful for those who serve to protect the U.S.

    I don't understand why "The Few, The Proud" continue to serve a government that is completely corrupt and hell bent on destroying human rights right here on U.S. soil.

    How can they invade a country knowing that it may not be for good?
    Why haven’t more service men that have served this country stood up and said "Look - what you are doing isn't right"

    My take on it is what others have already said. They're there to do a job, so who really cares what orientation they are, as long as they’re a good shot and have your back when needed.

    But it just really frustrates me that more service men aren't standing up to the administration - current and possible future candidates and saying "What you are proposing isn't right - it isn't what we fight for and risk our lives for"

    Why aren't service men with good service history standing up and saying "Why are we risking our lives so these hypocrites can do what we're fighting against?"

    It just frustrates the shit out of me as these are the people that have more of a voice than the regular joe - yet no one says anything.
     
  16. B_enzia35

    B_enzia35 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    878
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    Try saying something bad about your boss and see how far up the chain you go.
     
  17. Rikter8

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    4,488
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    51
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    MI
    That doesn't sound too "Proud" to me.
     
  18. 6inchcock

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,567
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1,148
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Look north and turn left, real sudden like
    Verified:
    Photo
    That's a hell of a lot of apples and oranges. But I will try to take a stab at it for you. At least from my point of view.

    The military in general is like a culture in and of itself. IMHO the gay and lesbian service members served sacrificing their personal lives over their chosen profession, because of their dedication. It was very unfortunate, and I am glad they can serve without fear at least from the government (attitudes within the ranks will still probably be an uphill battle for them for a few years/generations).

    Many people in the military do stand up to a point, when leadership starts going down the wrong path. However ultimately (in the case of the US) when you enlist or receive a commission you swear an oath and you are no longer a civilian, and at the end of the day you have to follow the orders of those appointed over you (regardless of whether they are a full of shit or not).

    The only orders that you can "disobey" are an illegal or an unlawful order, such as violent acts or abuse of non-combatants, destroy protected targets (churches, hospitals, etc). The decision of the civilian government to invade country X for whatever reason is not open to debate. Whether you like it or not you took the oath and the paycheck, so you deal with it.

    The hypocrisy is not solely restricted to the military or any branch of the military. I can point out any number of institutions that have greater levels of hypocrisy.

    The US military does protect the government of which "we the people" decide to elect. If you think it is corrupt or it sucks then "vote", that's why we in the military (past tense in my case) bleed and die for you the citizen.

    The President with the backing of congress made the decision to "invade"; not the soldiers, sailors, airmen or marines; not even the generals or the admirals. If "we" stood up and "rebelled" it's called "mutiny", which still punishable by jail and or death, dependent upon the circumstances of the charge.

    Among the victims of those that did stand up or were sold up the river were GEN Shinseki and then later Secretary of State Powell.
     
  19. USN2MD

    USN2MD New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2011
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is much ado about nothing. First off I would submit that the marines have a higher percentage of hetro's than most of the services or society in general. Thats just an observation, but I think one that is accurate. Secondly it was never about being gay and being out or in or whatever. Its about unit cohesiveness and good order and discipline. You do not fight for your country or your god or whatever first, you fight for your buddy, its always been so. Either your reliable and a solid troop or your a worthless pussy. You will find that again because of percentages, the worthless pussies were more likely straight.

    But because good order and discipline are paramount in a military organization, anything that detracts from it has to be addressed. So if you are gay fine, but realize that your sexuality like everything else about you is less important than the mission. Make an issue out of your sexual preferences that disturb morale or detract from the mission and you are the problem, not the unit. That was the essence of DADT, but DADT was probably unfair to those who did nothing wrong but were "outed" and I think that did not sit well with a lot of straight service members including me.

    Lastly to the posters who want to make derogatory remarks about marines all being gay or bi. You haven't a clue. You see young men who are live in close quarters who have little privacy and think of each other as brothers and have little, probably no interest in a same sex intimate encounter. Although they sometimes do stupid things like "sexting with pictures" ( a sign of the times) that does not mean that there is a gay sexual desire behind it, more likely it was meant as a joke or to send to a chick. There is nothing Gay about a daisy chain (where guys use each others bodies as pillows). Its disgusting that you see this kind of comaraderie and you attach a sexual aspect to it because of your own narrow view of the world where everything somehow has a sexual meaning for you.
     
    #19 USN2MD, Dec 16, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  20. arkfarmbear

    arkfarmbear New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Make an issue out of your sexual preferences that disturb morale or detract from the mission and you are the problem, not the unit.


    Using your reasoning, any straight guy who talks about his wife, girlfriend and kids back home is making an issue of his sexual preferences. Even wearing a wedding ring could be construed as broadcasting one's preferences. Missing the folks back home or telling your comrades that you don't support the mission and want to go home definitely disturbs morale and detracts from the mission.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted