Marines piss on dead bodies

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I love the armchair generals here who don't know shit about combat ,but they have all the answers.Most of you bozos couldn't spend a day in their boots.Of those who served,thank you,but you can spend 50 years in the service and if you weren't in combat,you don't have a clue.I can tell you horror stories,but to you, they are just that ,stories.I know why it happened, you'll NEVER know
Ask you fathers and grandfathers who were in combat { I don't give a shit what country they served,} they know!
I think that it's unfortunate that this came to light,but to ruin their life forever is not the answer.We need the enemy to be scared shitless of us.You're not going to impress them by being nice to them. I know it's a lot to ask,but remember 9/11?


Been there and done that. Can't recall having to piss on anyone other than myself and the occasional tree.
 

ManlyBanisters

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Ed's got a point - there may be such thing as a moral / just war - but asking for moral / just foot soldiers is frankly absurd.

Either we find a way to stop all violent conflict or we accept that we, the taxpayers via our governments, employ people like these to kill the other side's people like these. Can we really expect all these people to view the enemy with balanced, humane compassion and yet still blow their brains out when ordered to do so? Bollocks - if we are going to have war at all we need a foot soldier to whom obeying orders is more important than human life. That is, essentially, what their training teaches them.

Personally I'd go with the no war at all option if it were down to me - but far, far greater brains than mine have worked on that conundrum over the ages and yet here we are.
 
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Everyone that served in combat has horror stories and their own version of hell.

Pissing on the enemy dead doesn't frighten the enemy and it doesn't bring back your buddy.

You scare the shit out of the enemy by killing them in droves no matter where or how he hides.
 

dandelion

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there were no US Marines (to my knowledge) that refused to go to Afghanistan, they were US Army Soldiers.
Actually I wasnt aware any had refused to go. I wasnt making any distinction between elite troops and ordinary grunts. ie, it had gone over my head if this was a slur on US elite troops rather than just any kind of soldier.

No US Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine can refuse to go, whether you agree or disagree to a conflict or deployment. If you question your governments motives you don't enlist (there is no draft or conscription). You swear an oath and you follow it or suffer the consequences.
Without reciting a bunch of regs and assorted bullshit, this link talks to some of the mandatory training and guidance for Law of War type training.Law of Armed Conflict (LOAC)

In the Uk before the Iraq war the heads of the armed forces demanded that the attourney general produce a legal opinion that the war was legal under international law before they would take part. The attourney generals first opinion was frankly equivocal and he then had to be leant on by the government to change his mind. many people think his first opinion was correct, and it certainly was born out by the facts determined after the invasion. Iraq had been no threat to the Uk, and therefore the war was illegal under international law. The only defence against this was that the Uk believed Iraq had been a threat. Frankly, it didnt. Lies were spread about to try to prove that it was and absolute rubbish was issued as supposed intelligence reports to justify it. Again, official intelligence reports from UK intelligence services were rejected and majorly altered to give the impression there was a threat. A former head of MI5 last year publicly said she was outraged at how the intelligence had been treated.

Now you cannot have this both ways. Either a soldier is bound to obey the international rules of war or he isnt. If the whole war is baseless then his duty would be to refuse to take part. Clearly the wars are taking place because the US government thinks (or the former government thought) they were to the benefit of the US. That is the true purpose of soldiers and invasion. 100 years ago Britain was pretty much top dog and picked only those proposals of international law which suited its own purposes. Now the US does the same. No one is going to do anything about it, are they? The only limit on the US is its own capability. You just said a soldier must always obey orders. Wrong. His duty is to refuse illegal orders. Typically what happens is he will be punished when he does. But if he obeys the illegal order to attack this particular enemy, why should he obey the legal order not to piss on them? You are saying that in the greater case he should ignore the humanitarian argument but in the lesser case he should follow it. That just makes no sense to a human mind.

Your outrage seems to be not that the US has broken international law or behaved inhumanely, but that by pissing these soldiers have acted against US interest.
 
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Actually I wasnt aware any had refused to go. I wasnt making any distinction between elite troops and ordinary grunts. ie, it had gone over my head if this was a slur on US elite troops rather than just any kind of soldier.



In the Uk before the Iraq war the heads of the armed forces demanded that the attourney general produce a legal opinion that the war was legal under international law before they would take part. The attourney generals first opinion was frankly equivocal and he then had to be leant on by the government to change his mind. many people think his first opinion was correct, and it certainly was born out by the facts determined after the invasion. Iraq had been no threat to the Uk, and therefore the war was illegal under international law. The only defence against this was that the Uk believed Iraq had been a threat. Frankly, it didnt. Lies were spread about to try to prove that it was and absolute rubbish was issued as supposed intelligence reports to justify it. Again, official intelligence reports from UK intelligence services were rejected and majorly altered to give the impression there was a threat. A former head of MI5 last year publicly said she was outraged at how the intelligence had been treated.

Now you cannot have this both ways. Either a soldier is bound to obey the international rules of war or he isnt. If the whole war is baseless then his duty would be to refuse to take part. Clearly the wars are taking place because the US government thinks (or the former government thought) they were to the benefit of the US. That is the true purpose of soldiers and invasion. 100 years ago Britain was pretty much top dog and picked only those proposals of international law which suited its own purposes. Now the US does the same. No one is going to do anything about it, are they? The only limit on the US is its own capability. You just said a soldier must always obey orders. Wrong. His duty is to refuse illegal orders. Typically what happens is he will be punished when he does. But if he obeys the illegal order to attack this particular enemy, why should he obey the legal order not to piss on them? You are saying that in the greater case he should ignore the humanitarian argument but in the lesser case he should follow it. That just makes no sense to a human mind.

Your outrage seems to be not that the US has broken international law or behaved inhumanely, but that by pissing these soldiers have acted against US interest.

Iraq, asinine. Agreed.

Afghanistan a necessity.

Shooting non-combatants is an unlawful order, that you are obligated to disobey (such as My Lai massacre).

As a volunteer in the US Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines, you are oath bound to bear arms against your nations enemies; regardless of your political stand on them. Exception being contentious objectors (which you have to declare yourself as being well in advance of receiving a deployment order). Failure to follow this can and usually will result in a courts martial.

To put it in simple terms there is an international precedent, but you are still bound by the US law as a servicemember. If they don't like it they don't enlist.
 
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B_Marius567

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:rolleyes:

If I was an American, I would be more ashamed that this incident doesn't shock anymore, it simply adds to the impression that has grown over the last twenty years. I take no pleasure in saying that.


I do not care about the Taliban!

my brother killed about 1000 Taliban
the Taliban wear black vest making them easy to spot.
 

likes2seemore

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a cousin of mine was deployed to irac 4 times that i know.the last time he was home, he was telling us some of the things he'd seen over there.it was more than i could handle just listening to some of the "unreal" events,and to see the look on his face while sharing them...it was as if he was in a trance with no reaction.he spoke of how the solders would give candy to the irac kids and hold them on their laps and then a few days later have to gun down the very same kids for posibly having bombs straped on them.this is the kind of shit that would screw with your minds!is it an excuse for dispicable behavor?no,but ,i myself can't even imagine living through what these solders are forced to live through, not once,but through deployment after deployment.its not human to see and do the things of war.it could kind of make you act out in unhuman ways.God bless our solders and help them to hold on to what is real and keep them human...
 

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I've read reports from top military experts explaining that it is mighty difficult for a person who has been trained to survive and win a war to also function in civilized society.
Kill or be killed is what soldiers live with 24/7. Soldiers are faced with not only their own death but are also responsible if their hesitation causes the death of their friends and comrades.
The report was written in response to the increased suicide rate among soldiers returning from deployment.
 

Q Vee

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No matter what goes on during war on either side those guys showed about as much common sense combined as a two year old. After Abu Ghraib how could any Service person take any kind of audio or video record of obviously court martial type actions. That alone makes them a disgrace to the U.S. Military, the U.S. Public, and themselves. If they didn't want to be there anymore, they could have just gone A.W.O.L. and saved themselves, their families, and the rest of U.S. the embarrassment.

And for the record, I am in no way condoning their stunt.
 

FuzzyKen

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In a famous speech given by General George S. Patton during World War II I will always remember one "great" line. "The idea is not to die for your country, it is to make the other poor XXX die for his country!"

Now that we know for a fact that this was not "staged" by our enemies and that it was in fact American Soldiers who committed the acts in question they are going to be prosecuted to the fullest extent that the law allows.

War crimes and atrocities are nothing new and historically have been committed by nearly every group on the planet by all groups involved to certain degrees.

My biological Father served in the Pacific Theater with the United States Navy during World War II. His job was setting up supply lines as the Pacific Islands fell to the Allies at that time. He arrived in one location just after the "clean out" had happened and watched U.S. Soldiers bringing in bodies of both women and children who had been bayonetted by the Japanese who had occupied the area. As the Allied forces landed the atrocities during the war were incredible. I was college age before I could bring around a friend of even Japanese ancestry who hand been American born.

At the same time we did our part by placing American Born people of Japanese Ancestry in concentration camps. The panic and hysteria was so horrific that we did things to Americans. As much as I lacked love of J. Edgar Hoover even he was absolutely against what was done to the American Born Japanese.

Sadly, as much as I sympathize with the hatred and feelings of the soldiers involved in this I completely support the fate that they will meet. We are Americans and we have to stand for what is right and follow the law.

The laws governing military conduct were not relaxed or overturned during the Bush-Cheney Administration. War Crimes have no statute of limitations. There are still people looking for the worst of criminals from World War II. If enough evidence surfaces which proves members of that administration with little doubt to be in fact guilty of war crimes they in fact are still in jeopardy and may remain so for the rest of their lives.

Within my own family virtually every war has been represented. My war time was Viet Nam. I was in college at the time and missed the lottery by one number. Had I been called I would not have requested deferment. I had already set things up "just in case" for the United States Air Force.

One of my best friends here is a guardsman who has been "invited" to most of the current scenic desert locations of death. He came back two visits ago with P.T.S.D. the last time so badly that in order to prevent his own injury at night he was forced to take the chain link fencing down around his front yard. He would wake up running around the yard of his ranch in his underwear in the middle of the night. He is doing well now, but, many of his friends did not come back from that trip.

One other poster who mentioned "scraping the bottom of the barrel" is a very harsh judgement against men serving their country. The predominating numbers now serving in the land of the "middle east" are not regulars but are State Reservists. The laws governing the deployment of reservists are different from those required to deploy front line soldiers and that equipment. Also remember that the reservists get the "cast off" equipment from the regular branches of the service. This has also had some problems. From my personal observations this is the biggest problem. The weaponry and defenses available to these men are not the most technologically advanced consistently.

I hesitate under any circumstances to refer to our nations reservists as "the bottom of the barrell". They are well trained and have the same requirements as the regular or front line branches.

There are front liners there in consulting positions and there is some new equipment but it is not there in great numbers and it is not universal.

This result of emptying a few bladders of some liquid has tarnished all members of the military and is an insult to the many good men trying to do a difficult job and trying to keep from getting their own rear ends shot off.
 

PhillyPrick

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I love the armchair generals here who don't know shit about combat ,but they have all the answers.Most of you bozos couldn't spend a day in their boots.Of those who served,thank you,but you can spend 50 years in the service and if you weren't in combat,you don't have a clue.I can tell you horror stories,but to you, they are just that ,stories.I know why it happened, you'll NEVER know
Ask you fathers and grandfathers who were in combat { I don't give a shit what country they served,} they know!
I think that it's unfortunate that this came to light,but to ruin their life forever is not the answer.We need the enemy to be scared shitless of us.You're not going to impress them by being nice to them. I know it's a lot to ask,but remember 9/11?

This is EXACTLY what my stance is on this issue. Thank you very much I don't even have much to add.

I would say though, what kind of a soldier do you want fighting your wars? Do you want someone who respects the enemy, or someone who thinks of the enemy as nothing more then a urinal?

These soldiers should be praised for their enthusiasm.
 

arkfarmbear

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A question for Mr. Ed and his supporters. Do you feel the same when our enemies hang our dead soldiers from an overpass or are they simply soldiers engaging in what is expected in war?
I agree with you but I also feel we should not hold ourselves up, especially to our own people, as the torch bearers of decency and righteousness that the rest of the world should aspire to.
We celebrate our "heroes" when they come home while denouncing other countries when they honor their troops for killing us.
Most americans don't like the old cliche "your terrorist is my freedom fighter". You will get a deer in the headlights look almost every time.
 

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Now that we know for a fact that this was not "staged" by our enemies and that it was in fact American Soldiers who committed the acts in question they are going to be prosecuted to the fullest extent that the law allows.

War crimes and atrocities are nothing new and historically have been committed by nearly every group on the planet.....watched U.S. Soldiers bringing in bodies of both women and children who had been bayonetted by the Japanese ... As the Allied forces landed the atrocities during the war were incredible...we did our part by placing American Born people of Japanese Ancestry in concentration camps... There are still people looking for the worst of criminals from World War II.
Ok, lets see how this stacks up. Do I want to be pissed on after I am dead anyway or bayonetted while I am alive? Do i want to be pissed on after I am dead or suffer during landings? Do I want to be interned or pissed on after I am dead? Do i want all my relatives gassed or just be pissed on after I am dead? Isnt being pissed on after you have been killed in what I take to be a fair fight an incredibly 21st century wimpish form of atrocity? School kids commit worse. come on, cant we manage napalming civilians any more? bit of rape? Starvation?

I would say though, what kind of a soldier do you want fighting your wars? Do you want someone who respects the enemy, or someone who thinks of the enemy as nothing more then a urinal?
Having said what i have said about the stupidity of blaming soldiers for getting very mildly carried away, the answer to the question is I do not want soldiers who treat the enemy as a handy toilet. I want soldiers who can exercise restraint and think levelly about everything they do, weighing the balance and the effects. But I know this is impossible and it is not fair to blame soldiers when things get out of hand. treating this with 'the fullest extent the law allows' is ridiculous. I guess that means we tie them to a post and shoot them. The truth is this incident brings home some of the reality of the current wars, and their entire insanity. It makes ordinary people understand a little what is really going on. War is not nice and pretty and comfortable and smart soldiers marching up and down and waving and being cheered.
 

helgaleena

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There has got to be some better way of decreasing our surplus population than war. It's bad for peoples' brains.

The example in this thread shows it all too clearly.

If only it wasn't so profitable?
 
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Mr Ed in Mass

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A question for Mr. Ed and his supporters. Do you feel the same when our enemies hang our dead soldiers from an overpass or are they simply soldiers engaging in what is expected in war?
I agree with you but I also feel we should not hold ourselves up, especially to our own people, as the torch bearers of decency and righteousness that the rest of the world should aspire to.
We celebrate our "heroes" when they come home while denouncing other countries when they honor their troops for killing us.
Most americans don't like the old cliche "your terrorist is my freedom fighter". You will get a deer in the headlights look almost every time.

Maybe I felt this way BECAUSE they hung our contractors from a bridge and killed almost 3000 on 9/11. Fucking cowards. If I remember correctly, that was Iraq,but the mindset is the same.The contractors were there to help civilians have a better life,bring in water and electricity,because that is what WE do.They weren't even part of the military and neither were the bad guys..Some also seem to think that the two incidents are equally horrific.Someone even equated them to Nazi SS troops which was totally asinine and lame.They need to reread history.Someone else said that they were sorry to be an American but are probably 1000% behind this corrupt administration,that in itself makes me sad for America.
Like I said before, it was regrettable that it happened,but should they pay for it the rest of their lives? for such a stupid minute of thoughtless behavior?.The Afgan people didn't have a problem with it because the terrorists are despised.
An Article 15 ,a fine and loss of a stripe should do it,or should you preside at the firing squad.? In the fog of war,it really wasn't that big of a fucking deal.They pissed on them,they didn't drag innocents out of their houses and shoot them behind the ear..They were probably so fucking happy to be alive for another day that they got carried away.FUCK YOU MOTHERFUCKERS! YOU LOSE TODAY.


read my signatures below
 
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D_Sal_Manilla

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What they did was shameful and humiliating. Also that ass politician who's names escapes me who just dismissed this behavior as "boys will be boys" should be pissed on himself.

America is a land of freedom, democracy but most importantly... Justice and equality.

As much as I despise any type of terrorist, I still believe that we should treat them with respect... if we don't, then we are no better than them.


I really am disgusted by their actions. i hope steps have been or are in the process to discipline the marines involved.