Married with or without Children. Trapped?

[D_Andy_Whorewall]

I've been married going on 25 years. Sex with my wife is still great. BUT, I want to explore that other side of me. I want to touch and suck a mans penis. Especially to climax !

I had bi-encounters when I was a teen and it was a very great feeling.

But as already posted, I have 3 boys, am a well respected member of the community, and my marriage is very strong.

I do have a friend in another city that is bi and has been waiting for me to come around, so to speak. We are great friends, and are in touch weekly by email. We also get together twice a year for dinner and catch up. We have NOT yet gone to the next level.

For the reasons mentioned by others, I'm not about to risk my family and marriage for a chance encounter....though I do think about it all the time.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

It astonishes me how we can let ourselves become so obsessed by an idea...

Believe me, I have the same ideas...

And that we would imperil so much that is so wonderful and valuable over something as fleeting and transient as a dick.


For most of my life I have had to deal with it by simply not putting myself in situations that might result in opportunities...

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

I've been in relationships with a few bi and/or gay men, and like Jasper wrote, honesty is the key. We would have not been able to build a relationship, and maintain our friendship, if the foundation of honesty and good communication had not been present. So don't feel trapped - communicate. Let your desires be known and allow the relationship to grow and evolve as needed.

Label me a hedonist, but life is too short to deny yourself a deep desire. Particularly one that is between consenting adults and can be incorporated into your life - if both partners are willing.

 

[earllogjam]

I've been in relationships with a few bi and/or gay men, and like Jasper wrote, honesty is the key. We would have not been able to build a relationship, and maintain our friendship, if the foundation of honesty and good communication had not been present. So don't feel trapped - communicate. Let your desires be known and allow the relationship to grow and evolve as needed.

Label me a hedonist, but life is too short to deny yourself a deep desire. Particularly one that is between consenting adults and can be incorporated into your life - if both partners are willing.

what if both partner's aren't willing? at what point is your sex drive more important than your faithful partner?

 

[SandraSmithCarver]

Widenine--I have been married and have two young children. My partner is also formerly married with two grown kids and a former step-daughter as well. I recall the struggle, even though my (ex)wife helped me figure things out and was extremely supportive of me. When I slowly realized I was not straight, I went through a period of "transitional bisexuality" before finally realizing I was, in fact, gay. The percentages under our names change under all posts when you change your profile or you would be able to see this change over time with my post history.

I think it all depends on what you want out of life. If you can stay married and be happy, by all means do so. If you are unhappy, then my best advice would be to find it within yourself to come out. Yes, it is terrifying. Yes you will lose friends and family members. I have experienced all of this. And I can tell you this: the people left standing around me are the ones that have always truly loved me and are fiercely loyal. And there is no greater feeling than loving yourself and living the life you were meant to live.

For me, I wanted to set the example to my kids that it is okay to be who you are and you should not hide your true self. Honesty is, in my opinion, best, even in a world that is not always ready to face it. My kids now have friends who are not allowed to come over because I am gay and they (and their friends) think that is stupid. Little by little, being honest with ourselves and each other changes the world for the better.

Please know that there are MANY MANY gay fathers and mothers around. There are even groups that support them. If you need more information, I am happy to dig up some resources for you, but I might need a little more info. Feel free to PM me.

HUG.

Lex, thats awesome that you were able to be honest with your wife, its better for everyone involved. It must be very difficult, from what I've seen and heard, a lot of Bi/Gay men want to be married and have a family, and go for it when they are young, not meaning to hurt anyone, but we know things change as we get older, and really grow up. I have suspected my ex husband is gay or bi. He will never come out about it, we have three sons together, and he was raised in a very oppressed staunch german family, its really sad. We have to live the life we were meant to live. As you get older you realize your "real" friends are the ones that were always there anyway. :wink:

 

[widenine]

It astonishes me how we can let ourselves become so obsessed by an idea...

Believe me, I have the same ideas...

And that we would imperil so much that is so wonderful and valuable over something as fleeting and transient as a dick.


For most of my life I have had to deal with it by simply not putting myself in situations that might result in opportunities...

Phil,
I like what you say and the tone of your statements. I have to say as well, however, that the more you speak, the more your words seem forced...and
they don't ring true.

I believe that a man is violating his primary relationship simply by maintaining a close, loving and emotional relationship with another manwho feels those same things. It's not simply about the dick, as you put it. Nothing physical needs to be in place.

Your comments seem to emphasize the "physical aspects" of infidelity and that's not the only aspect of an extramarital relationship. If you're beating off to the thoughts about another man, how is that different than physically having him? In either case, your marital commitment is to some extent compromised.

You cannot avoid the need to be with a man if that is what you need. And that doesn't mean that your need to be with your woman/wife is any less.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

Earl

That's something the people have to decide individually.

However, I would be curious as to their reasoning for denying the change. Most likely it would be fear of losing the partner, which is usually a possibility anyway, rather than a deeper moral issue, but even then, the partner should be able to adjust over time, imo.

No relationship begins and remains the same over time - rather each stage brings a new iteration. So you should be able to address these needed changes to ensure a satisfying continuation of your life partnership.

I think far more people assume the partners are unwilling than bring up the subject. If in a good relationship, the partner loves and supports you, and vice versa, seeking sex outside the relationship shouldn't be a deal breaker.

There's just so much more to a good, satisfying relationship to end or out in jeopardy because someone wants to explore and learn about themselves.

I could never deny that, nor would I fear losing them. :shrug:

 

[Lex]

Lex, thats awesome that you were able to be honest with your wife, its better for everyone involved. It must be very difficult, from what I've seen and heard, a lot of Bi/Gay men want to be married and have a family, and go for it when they are young, not meaning to hurt anyone, but we know things change as we get older, and really grow up. I have suspected my ex husband is gay or bi. He will never come out about it, we have three sons together, and he was raised in a very oppressed staunch german family, its really sad. We have to live the life we were meant to live. As you get older you realize your "real" friends are the ones that were always there anyway. :wink:

Sandra--I honestly did not realize I was not straight until well after I was married and my (ex) wife helped me realize it. I would have never found my true self if not for her. For that, I am more thankful than I can ever express. Good luck with your hubby--I agree.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Phil,
I like what you say and the tone of your statements. I have to say as well, however, that the more you speak, the more your words seem forced...and
they don't ring true.

They may not ring true for you.
But they are not forced upon my part.

I believe that a man is violating his primary relationship simply by maintaining a close, loving and emotional relationship with another manwho feels those same things. It's not simply about the dick, as you put it. Nothing physical needs to be in place.

This is disingenuous. Bisexuality is about sexuality. Its about craving both genders sexually.
If you are having non-sexual, non-physical loving relationships with men that is called friendship.
Its not indicative of sexual attraction.

Your comments seem to emphasize the "physical aspects" of infidelity and that's not the only aspect of an extramarital relationship. If you're beating off to the thoughts about another man, how is that different than physically having him? In either case, your marital commitment is to some extent compromised.

Aside from the religious argument of sins of the mind being equal to sins of the flesh ( which I think is utter nonsense because, well, religion is utter nonsense )
I must beg to differ. What you are proposing is a police state of the mind. If we are not free in our minds, then we are nothing.

... I am sure my wife beats off to thoughts of George Clooney or the guy at the gym... and I don't care...that is NOT infidelity... that is freedom of thought.

Thinking about someone else, fantasizing, does not imperil your marriage... it is not going to get anyone else pregnant... you are not going to run away with your fantasy and leave your wife finanically bereft, your children fatherless... you are not gonna catch an STD from your fantasy and transmit it to your wife...

It is harmless, and , as far as I can tell, critical to long term happiness..

I don't mind if she's imagining I am Conan the Barbarian... as long as she gets where she needs to go.

You cannot avoid the need to be with a man if that is what you need. And that doesn't mean that your need to be with your woman/wife is any less.

This is nothing but an exculpatory rationalization.
You say this like you are trying to convince yourself you can't help it.

You can.

You are the master of your own actions...
Recovered alcoholics lives their entire lives aching for a drink... and denying that 'need' daily.

You owe to your wife your allegiance to your promise.

If you can not keep that promise... you owe her honesty and the honorable choice of whether she wants to live with your needs, or move on.

Not being honest with your mate about something you suspect they might leave you over is STEALING time from them.

...Time they might spend finding a relationship with someone for whom they will be enough.

And time is all our short lives even are.

 

[widenine]

We obviously disagree on just about every angle. Personally, I gasp as I read your definition of bisexuality. I don't crave sex from anyone. That is totally your take on sexuality;. And it's amazing that you have that take because you're obviously into emotional control. Personally, I believe your opinions are valid for you and I find it very difficult to do anything but accept them "for you". I've lived many years, however, and I've seen a ton of outcomes in marriages. And based on your assertions, I'm almost sure that you have never been in a lasting, loving relationship that involved both flexibility and negotiation.

NOTHING in a marriage remains the same over a ten year period. AND there are NO guarantees... only compromises.
Based on what you've said and the assumption that you make without asking for clarification, I know that your experiences are more limited than my own. BTW: You were wrong in assuming that I have children.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Amazing that you can come to such conclusion about my life based upon so little...
not surprising that your conclusions are entirely wrong.

WHo said every thing remains the same over ten years?

( and BTW... I am not assuming you have children... I am not assuming anything about you... I am discussing the HYPOTHETICAL situation posited by the OP... "married, WITH or without children".... I have no idea if that hypothetical in any way resembles your personal situation. We are dealing with the moral construct of a heterosexually married man, who might have kids , realizing that he has sexual attraction to other men.
Don't take an abstract discussion so personally.)


and Seriously... bisexuality is about SEXUAL attraction. No shit, look it up if you don't believe me.

In addition, The fact that you WANT it both ways does not mean you have to HAVE it both ways... believe it or not, you can go the rest of your life without fucking anything at all, if you choose to.

OR--- you can allow your actions in life to be determined by the wad of flesh twixt your thighs...



But, if you read what I wrote with some level of comprehension, then you might have picked up that I am not saying you have to stay with your wife... Neither did I say you have to leave your wife...

I am saying that SHE entered into the relationship with certain expectations.

YOU OWE HER HONESTY IF YOU CAN NOT MEET THOSE EXPECTATIONS. ( this is true no matter what those expectation are... )

If you have a wife who is cool with a husband who has sex with men on the side.... or even one that is cool with a 3-way involving another man.... CONGRATULATIONS... you just hit the bisexual jackpot and can have what you want.

But it is NOT cool to fuck men on the side in secret and NOT tell her.

Sorry... there simply ain't no dodge around the ethical implications of that one.


She has a right to know if you are imperiling her health... or her emotional and financial security thru gay sexual liaisons.

An HONORABLE man would, at the very least, sit down with her and re-negotiate the relationship based upon the fact that things had changed.

Eyes wide open and ready for the fact that she may elect to split.


I say this in RECOGNITION that any long term marriage involves change... AND re-negotiation.

Just do so in good faith and in the light of reason.
It is the least you owe to one you purport to love.



But hey... if you actually feel "trapped" then get the fuck out of the marriage.
That is not how anyone I know who is in a loving relationship would describe their marriage.

 

[Drifterwood]

Phil's well presented morality is pecularly American and in the wider historical context somewhat recent. Modern christian vows are also underpinned by the church's dislike of anything sexual and human sexuality in general.

I find it easier to buy into genetic monogamy and whilst we don't yet have a post femnist model for sexual equality within a marriage structure, I personally reject the so called morality of sexual monogamy as a straight jacket to expression and exploration.

It is very difficult to break the restraints of convention and it is also difficult to see that convention is a construct that is forced upon you.

I also do not like the fact that those without the need to explore their sexuality are given the moral high ground against those who do or find that they do. Marriage clearly isn't working for people, see the statistical likliehood of divorce vs. staying together and the fact that more adults in the UK now are unmarried as opposed to being married. These facts point to the need to reevaluate the expectations that we place upon partnerships. If it works for you then all well and good, but please don't think that your nature should be wrapped up as morality for everyone else, and that they should deny their nature to somehow please your morality.

 

[widenine]

My initial post :


"How bi and gay men, married faithful to a women, handle that inner stress/struggle that comes with family respect and fidelity? "

Then Phil began to preach from his heavenly stump

There IS a story behind His story.

 

[widenine]

Bisexuality is a sexual orientation which refers to the romantic and/or sexual attraction of individuals to others of both genders (socially) or sexes (biologically). Bisexuals are not necessarily equally attracted to men and women and may even shift between states of finding either gender or sex exclusively attractive over the course of time.[1] However, some bisexuals are and remain fairly static in their level of attraction throughout their adult life.

 

[Drifterwood]

I don't have your issues Widenine, but I would like to offer my support. As you can see from my post above, I am not an adherent of the christian marriage model.

However, I probably could/should have married a bi-sexual GF way back when. I had no issues of jealousy, I misunderstood the committment side of things, but be that as it may. My opinion is that partners should not be afraid of, jealous of, nor judgmental about sexual interests that they just are never going to be a part of. Whatever other reasons they try to dress up their feelings, I think it mostly boils down to the fear of losing the partner's affections.

People's gut reaction seems to be no, but mine was fine but let's not stop evaluating where we are with each other. Emotionally you can be sexually monogamous with a hetero partner at the same time as being something else or the same with same sex partner or partners and vice versa. I don't have any problem with this.

I probably wouldn't want to share a lover with a horse though.

 

[widenine]

Phil said: and Seriously... bisexuality is about SEXUAL attraction. No shit, look it up if you don't believe me.

I looked it up.... just for you, phil:


Wikipedia says:

Bisexuality is a sexual orientation which refers to the romantic and/or sexual attraction of individuals to others of both genders (socially) or sexes (biologically). Bisexuals are not necessarily equally attracted to men and women and may even shift between states of finding either gender or sex exclusively attractive over the course of time.[1] However, some bisexuals are and remain fairly static in their level of attraction throughout their adult life.





Phil said:
( and BTW... I am not assuming you have children... I am not assuming anything about you... I am discussing the HYPOTHETICAL situation posited by the OP... "married, WITH or without children"

Phil also said:

If I had a son who seemed to have attraction to males I would discuss it with him and make him understand that he has the option of exploring those feeling without fear of my disapproval.

However... that is not the situation you presented.

You are MARRIED.... with CHILDREN....

You have already MADE those choices and now your actions are not entirely your own... they affect the lives of others. ( not only emotionally, but financially )
You have a responsibility to the choices you have made, to the promises you have made.
............................................................

Your view are limited and your experience shallow. It's "either or" with you, it seems. And you're smug with that provincial peek at what you feel is world reality. The following seems to define all that you have said. It's truly very sad.

Phil said:
But hey... if you actually feel "trapped" then get the fuck out of the marriage.

That is not how anyone I know who is in a loving relationship would describe their marriage.

I believe:
That means little or nothing and, in fact, it's really silly. You never now how anyone feels about such sensitive issues when you're closed and judgemental.

 

[Principessa]

Then Phil began to preach from his heavenly stump
There IS a story behind His story.

Of course there is. Yet I doubt we will ever learn the real deal with him.

We have to live the life we were meant to live. As you get older you realize your "real" friends are the ones that were always there anyway. :wink:

So true, when the dust settled after a recent medical and personal crisis I was more hurt by the friends who weren't there than by those who were.

I've been married going on 25 years. Sex with my wife is still great. BUT, I want to explore that other side of me. I want to touch and suck a mans penis. Especially to climax !

For the reasons mentioned by others, I'm not about to risk my family and marriage for a chance encounter....though I do think about it all the time.

I have never felt the conflict or dual desire that you describe. I can only imagine it is sheer hell for you and others. :frown1:

Miserable people make for horrible spouses and worse parents.

Agreed!

I am a better partner and father for finally understanding who I really am and living in a way the expresses rather than represses my truth.

I believe it, living a lie is not healthy for you or those around you. Now if only you would hook me up with Bubba's straight twin. :flirt:

Not every gay or bisexual person gets married under false pretenses

Well of course not! Did people think everyone was Jim Mc Greevey? :tongue:

Phil Ayesho, you have made a fan here.

That's frightening! :yikes:

 

[Lex]

I believe it, living a lie is not healthy for you or those around you. Now if only you would hook me up with Bubba's straight twin. :flirt:

Thanks. As soon as I find him and KNOW he is straight, I will be in touch.

 

[Rubenesque]

I think the fundamental point is this....

a happy out and proud parent is a better parent than a miserable, bitter in the closet one!

 

[alex8.5]

About 20 years ago, my very, very good friend Jacob, got married, and has since had three sons. Just after Christmas 2005 he told his wife and his sons, he was seeking a divorce because he was indeed gay, and wanted to live solely as a gay man. I knew Jacob even before he got married, and he did say he fooled around with guys a bit, but it was just college stuff. So when he announced he was getting married, I had my doubts, and thought he really needed to think some more about this, but I don;t think I ever met a man who wanted to be a father as much as he did. He is an amazing father, I wish all children would have him as a father.

Obvisously, his wife and kids were devastated and hurt and confused. They all went for counselling together. He swore he never cheated on his wife with another man or woman while married, but he could no longer suppress his feelings. During the counselling, it turns out his middle son is gay as well, so jacob got full support from him. By that summer of 2006, the entire family went on a vacation to seek closure. He and his wife have since divorced, he now has found a partner and his ex wife has since re married. His sons live with him, even though 2 are in college.

My point is, while he knew he had feelings of being homosexual, I think he should have put a lot of thought before getting married. He was lucky to have such a great loving and understanding family. He struggled for 18 years while being married and secretly not being happy.