Married with or without Children. Trapped?

[widenine]

Alex said:

My point is, while he knew he had feelings of being homosexual, I think he should have put a lot of thought before getting married. He was lucky to have such a great loving and understanding family. He struggled for 18 years while being married and secretly not being happy.

Response:

I agree with you totally. And when I step back to observe marriages in general, that last on average of 3 years before divorce, I still see that same pain and unhappiness that's magnified with kids and bills.

Your friend and his wife should have no regrets. He has a loving family and they experience love for 18 years. They raised their kids until they were
old enought to spread their wings? (MY interpretation

MY take: There is no perfection in relationshiups. It is always a struggle and a compromise for educated people with options. We make choices and we live with them until we no longer can. I, for one, am far from miserable and bitter.

 

[SandraSmithCarver]

My point is, while he knew he had feelings of being homosexual, I think he should have put a lot of thought before getting married. He was lucky to have such a great loving and understanding family. He struggled for 18 years while being married and secretly not being happy.[/quote]

I agree but, we all do things when we are young that we regret 20 years later, everyone does! We all do the best we can at the time, bottom line, he wanted kids, and you say he is a great Dad. Im sure he or his wife have no regrets, they had some good years(like all couples) and 2 great kids. Its great that they sought counseling. Every devestation, hurt, disapointment we have in life is to make us grow up. It just life, ya take the good with the bad, brush your self off and keep walking! ( and if you need counseling-get it)

 

[Phil Ayesho]

I agree with Sandra...

Except for the counseling part.
My experience has been that counseling is generally a waste of time and money.
Most counselors are idiots... and the few good ones... well they might be able to teach a canary to live with a crocodile... but that wouldn't mean it was the best destiny for either one.

All that is needed is honesty. Forthrightness.


I married in haste at 21... it ended badly in a lot of trauma...
So what?
I got two fine sons out of that marriage... my career blossomed... bought my first house...
My ex andf I, though ending badly, had many good times over those years...

And I learned so very much about life, women, myself, marriage, fatherhood.

It really is ALL good.

 

[Stephenmass]

After reading this thread (especially Lex's including his coming out thread) I have to add that if someone's sexuality suddenly comes to surface (I call it supersurfacing) and it becomes a major problem for the one experiencing it, and the one that loves him I would gather that it would be very difficult to contain. If it is, in fact, your true sexuality are you not doing your wife and you a favor by getting it all out there? Yeah, maybe it will end in divorce. But if it does, in my own opinion anyway, it frees you to be yourself, and it frees her to find someone (excluding Lex here - seems like it was quite painful for him) that is straight, perhaps someone that can devote himself to her without "wanting another sex"...

Phil, I think you would feel so much differently if suddenly your wife turned to you and said I think I am a lesbian, especially if it seemingly came out of left field.

Wanting your true sexuality isn't a selfish thing to give into, it's a natural thing. When you are crossing that line, I would only hope you are honest to those around you about it.

Lex, I commend your story. I am happy that you are happy. I ask this question not to hurt or anything of the sort. I can tell by your writings that although homosexual, you love your wife very much. Seemingly, she loves you too. I think that is great and all. While you certainly cannot go backwards, would you agree with the statement that there was a lot of wasted time (not really the words I want to use but I think you get my drift) on both of your parts? One is you never gave into your own sexuality for years until you couldn't contain it any longer; and secondly, in a way I feel for your wife.

While again "wasted time" is not the term I wanted to use, just to think that the two of you could have been with someone in your case that was gay and devoted, and for her a man that was straight without thinking about the other sex.

I commend your honesty with her; I am also glad she accepted it so well. I have to admit, and I am gay, that if it were me, I'd feel as though I wasted a lot of time, much as I loved you kinda thing.

But to each their own, and I don't judge kinda thing. I am sure conscience was very rough for you during your supersurfacing time.

Congrats on getting thru it all.

 

[widenine]

Stephenmass: I like your take on Lex's situation a lot. I like it mainly because It reminds me that I, too, am a hopeless romantic. My ideal union mirrors your depiction of a relationship with a devoted woman who is there for me, her man, through the best times and all of the worst. I, in fact, feel that a bisexual man can have that with a woman. And yes, there will be times of hyper hormonal activity that scream for a happy ending.
Those times always pass; mainly because the role of a female is valued.

The idea that you should walk away from all that you have built because you're sometimes stuck without the masculine happy ending is, IMO, "not practical or rational over the long term".... if the too individuals have respect and friendship.

Relationships normally do not last. And I suspect that relationships between two men, in general, because they are men, endure even less. I don't know about lesbian households.
Time will tell, I suppose, when same sex unions and marriages are old enough to bear the weight of statistics.

So, I have to disagree that the grass is necessarily greener on the other side of an otherwise good marital relationship. You could very well end up in a succession of Male/Male trists that leave you longing for the entrapment of stability.

 

[D_Poppy_Cocque]

"the entrapment of security" - what a true statement.

You tell me how I cope?!? A lot of LPSG and a lot of "alone" time.

 

[Stephenmass]

Widenine,

If Lex were bisexual, I would agree with you. Bisexuals, if married and understood to be monogamous I think can be unselfish and remain monogamous. But reading his story and so forth, tells me that is not the case for Lex. His true sexuality was gay. I hate defining lines of sexuality, sounds a bit judgemental in a way and I do not mean it to sound that way at all.

What I give him a LOT of credit for, was finally coming clean with it. I'm am sure he probably fought with his conscience for a very long time before he outed himself to those important to him. Accepting who and what you are during this process is very difficult.

If he and his wife are happy with the current arrangement, I think it's great and I think he married one helluva woman. She was supportive and loving instead of hateful and resentful. Truly an exceptional woman.

If an arrangement between man and wife is known beforehand, I don't care what you are or she is or whatever. Whatever rocks their boat kinda thing; I truly don't judge.

But there are many men (and I'm sure women too) who truly didn't know their true sexuality when they married. And when it comes to the surface, it's difficult to deal with. What I read between the lines was it is possible to love her deeply; I truly think he does. But his innate desire is not for a woman, at least sexually when you are gay.

Anyway, not here to debate it anyway. Just my two cents.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Wikipedia says:

Bisexuality is a sexual orientation which refers to the romantic and/or sexual attraction of individuals to others of both genders or sexes.

So what part of the term SEXUAL ATTRACTION do you not understand?
The behavior is driven by sexual feelings, sexual urges, and sexual activities. It is characterized by sexual fantasies involving both genders.
And, BTW, romantic attraction is also SEXUAL in nature.

Phil said:....

Great, you can quote me... but still can not understand english.

In this debate you were taking the role of the hypothetical bisexual with a dilemma.

Addressing my remarks to you is addressing my remarks to the hypothetical YOU posited.

Don't waltz into a forum and toss out a question for discussion and then argue from the point of "technicalities" because you were unclear or dishonest in framing the question.

If you didn't want the issue of Children discussed... it it wasn't pertinent to your real agenda, then you should not have included it in the OP and you should not have asked specifically how I would address a child with homosexual feelings.


............................................................

Your view are limited and your experience shallow.
It's "either or" with you, it seems. And you're smug with that provincial peek at what you feel is world reality. The following seems to define all that you have said. It's truly very sad.

Look, don't get your panties in a twist at me.... I made a very direct and honest response that said that you should be honest with the woman you claim to love.
And I explained that you CAN be monogamous, even as a bisexual. ( I know because I have done it for 30 years)


You have not actually come up with ANY argument in refutation... just a bunch of personal canards.


You haven't actually come up with a counter argument because there IS NO sound counter arguemnt to being honest with the woman you married.

I understand its not the rationalization to experiment with men that you were hoping to get... I understand that you don't want to feel like a villian for doing what you pretty clearly intend to do anyway... and I understand that you would really like to hear its okay to fuck men on the side....and keep your wife in the dark...

These are the only rational explanations for your response to my assertion that you should make up your mind and deal with it honestly with your wife.

I mean... my position is not really that outlandish.... that you owe the person you promised fidelity to some honesty if you chose to not keep that promise...

That means little or nothing and, in fact, it's really silly.

You have made it abundantly clear that you feel any position that does not excuse you to act unethically is silly.

You never now how anyone feels about such sensitive issues when you're closed and judgemental.

I am not being judgmental just because I take your wife's feelings just as seriously as I take yours.

Showing good judgment is not the same as being judgmental. You should try the former on and see how it fits.


Lex did the honorable thing, despite the fact that he clearly loved his wife.

Wanting it all your way and disregarding the rights and feelings of your partner is selfish and immature.

Either suck it up and be true to your promise... or honestly re-negotiate the deal.

Everything else is just you wanting an excuse to behave badly.

 

[Lex]

... But if it does, in my own opinion anyway, it frees you to be yourself, and it frees her to find someone (excluding Lex here - seems like it was quite painful for him)

It was emotional, but not painful. My wife helped me figure things out. I went through a time when I thought (hoped?) I was bisexual. During that time, she and I renegoitiated our marriage after reading information on Mixed Orientation Marriages (google that). I feel freer than I ever have and it has nothing to do with not being with my (ex)wife any longer. It has everything to do with learning to love myself, TRULY, from the inside-out all over again. Its been a rewarding experience.

... Lex, I commend your story. I am happy that you are happy. I ask this question not to hurt or anything of the sort. I can tell by your writings that although homosexual, you love your wife very much. Seemingly, she loves you too. I think that is great and all. While you certainly cannot go backwards, would you agree with the statement that there was a lot of wasted time (not really the words I want to use but I think you get my drift) on both of your parts? One is you never gave into your own sexuality for years until you couldn't contain it any longer; and secondly, in a way I feel for your wife.

While again "wasted time" is not the term I wanted to use, just to think that the two of you could have been with someone in your case that was gay and devoted, and for her a man that was straight without thinking about the other sex.

I commend your honesty with her; I am also glad she accepted it so well. I have to admit, and I am gay, that if it were me, I'd feel as though I wasted a lot of time, much as I loved you kinda thing.

But to each their own, and I don't judge kinda thing. I am sure conscience was very rough for you during your supersurfacing time.

Congrats on getting thru it all.

I don't agree with this at all. I don't live with regrets. I have known her since I was 17 and life is a marathon, not a sprint. As one of DC's friends, Joanne (who also realized she was gay later in life said, "Better late than never."

I could not give into my sexuality because I did not realize it. It was not like I walked around lusting after men and resisting it--it really was not like that. Your premise that I knew and hid it is not accurate. I know some people do this--I did not.

Everything I have ever done has brought me to this time and place--and I love being here. I have two beautiful children, a wonderful friend in my ex and an amazing hubby in my Bubba. Going back and changing any portion of my story would change where I am today and I would never want that.

Nothing has been wasted or lost here.

Treasures have only been earned.

...
What I give him a LOT of credit for, was finally coming clean with it. I'm am sure he probably fought with his conscience for a very long time before he outed himself to those important to him. Accepting who and what you are during this process is very difficult.

Mrs. Lex figured all this out before I did. So I did not out myself to her, she outted me to myself. I was much to depressed and repressed to realize and understand why I had these tinges of unhappiness even though I had 3 cars, a house in the burbs, wife, 2 kids, a cat and a great career. There are many elements to my story before that thread you read. I am happy to share the links via PM if you want to read.

... If he and his wife are happy with the current arrangement, I think it's great and I think he married one helluva woman. She was supportive and loving instead of hateful and resentful. Truly an exceptional woman.

We decided that we would not stay together once I realized I was gay. It was a mutual decision and really, more hers than mine.

And yes, I did marry one hell of a woman. She is the most awesome person you have never met. Trust me.

 

[Stephenmass]

Your premise that I knew and hid it is not accurate.

If my post in any way said you knew and hid it, I apologize for that. I don't think I said that anywhere in my posting regarding you.

I think what I did was say that perhaps deep buried feelings that supersurfaced later in life emerged (paraphrasing).

I do know you love your exwife dearly. And it's obvious she loved you.

I think you may have read this post in the wrong context of thinking. It's easy to assume a "tone" in posts; that tone was truly not there in mine.

Actually, I am quite proud of that fact that you and she by your post, were honest enough with each other to sort it all out and she stood by you doing this.

Truly a remarkable woman. You are one lucky man.

 

[Lex]

If my post in any way said you knew and hid it, I apologize for that. I don't think I said that anywhere in my posting regarding you.

I think what I did was say that perhaps deep buried feelings that supersurfaced later in life emerged (paraphrasing).

I do know you love your exwife dearly. And it's obvious she loved you.

I think you may have read this post in the wrong context of thinking. It's easy to assume a "tone" in posts; that tone was truly not there in mine.

Actually, I am quite proud of that fact that you and she by your post, were honest enough with each other to sort it all out and she stood by you doing this.

Truly a remarkable woman. You are one lucky man.

I missunderstood. No offense taken, either. I was simply seeking to clarify.

Thanks--I realize more than anyone how lucky I am to know and love her.

 

[widenine]

phil,
You're hopelessly fixated on yourself.... even for thirty years?
Condescending and fairly arrogant as you cling to what has worked for you.

No need here to convince you of anything. I'm sure that your way is not for many others.

BTW: My wife reads your comments as I do. We agree that your feelings are just for you. SO... unless you simply have to have the very last word,
why not put a close to the chapter on your end. I would really like to hear from others who want to address he actual questions posed from the start.
Thank you for all that you have contributed.