MasTURbate vs. MasTERbate...

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

Originally posted by Hung Muscle@Sep 10 2005, 11:48 AM
How many times do your students use the word "bulge?"  I can remember ever having written this word in any class...

More than you might think. One of the summer reading choices is J. S. D. Eisenhower's The Bitter Woods. Try writing a book report on that one without mentioning the Battle of the Bulge at Ardennes.

 

[B_RoysToy]

Originally posted by Axex+Sep 10 2005, 07:17 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Axex &#064; Sep 10 2005, 07:17 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-RoysToy@Sep 10 2005, 02:41 PM
Have you noticed that the use of "I", when "me" is correct, has become used so often, along with "I" being used in first position other than being last of several others?    The influence of tv and music lyrics on our accepted language is staggering. 

Errr, don&#39;t forget "lay" for "lie".    So many don&#39;t know how to lie down -- always lay down&#33;    Uggh, nasty&#33;

[post=342084]Quoted post[/post]​

People lie, things lay. (question: do animals lay as well?)

"I got tired so I decided to lie down and take a nap"

"Will you go lay the uterus pate on the table?"

I was so angry when I found that out. Ever since then I&#39;ve had trouble saying "You lie like a rug&#33;".

P.S. I lubb you too Absinthium
-------------

Another one that I think people aren&#39;t really aware of is "who&#39;s" and "whose"

WHO&#39;S: WHO IS
WHOSE: POSESSION

I rarely see "whose"...but when I do see it I simultaneously orgasm.

[post=342092]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]
Hopefully you&#39;re serious when asking "do animals lay?" When the animal lies down, doing the deed by itself, he lies as we humans do. If I lay an animal down, I accomplish the deed and he doesn&#39;t do it him/her self. Chickens, on the other hand, do lay eggs, after they sit or lie down as best they can.

You&#39;re quite an imprssive young man, Axex.

Luke

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

Originally posted by absinthium@Sep 10 2005, 12:14 PM
On that note, do me a favor, would you, and tell your students to never, EVER, use the word "irregardless," no matter how smart they think it will make them sound?

Trust me: that&#39;s broached during the first week. "When you&#39;re tempted to use the word &#39;irregardless&#39;, pretend you&#39;re Van Gogh and cut off the &#39;ir&#39; (&#39;ear&#39;)." Corny, but it works&#33;

 

[absinthium]

Originally posted by Axex@Sep 10 2005, 03:17 PM
Another one that I think people aren&#39;t really aware of is "who&#39;s" and "whose"

WHO&#39;S: WHO IS
WHOSE: POSESSION

I rarely see "whose"...but when I do see it I simultaneously orgasm.

[post=342092]Quoted post[/post]​

Another good one... Sweet Christ, I thought I was the only one to orgasm over proper diction. Glad to know I&#39;m not the only weirdo&#33;

And as an open letter to those that have said it is improper to correct people in a grammatical sense... I think as long as it is tasteful and in the spirit of constructive criticism, it&#39;s perfectly fine to correct someone for misusing a word or saying something idiotic sounding in general. I liken it to having a booger hanging out, or a piece of something creepy stuck in your teeth... If you&#39;re a good friend, you warn people about these oftentimes awkward social faux pas. I wouldn&#39;t mind being corrected in that sense... There have been many times, ESPECIALLY when I write, that I ask for the definition of words, or the correct structure of a sentence.
There really is a decline, in my generation for sure, in respect for the English language. It&#39;s sad. I hate it. It speaks of a lack of education, and to me that denotes a lack of caring. No one cares if everyone speaks like a completely moronic fuck. It offends me deeply, though. I love language... I know because of the way I speak and express myself, I&#39;ve been able to land jobs I might not get otherwise because of my appearance or age. I project an image of someone who is confident, knowledgeable, and able to communicate clearly and intelligently on an "adult" level. This is SO vital. I wish more people knew that.
So, in short, I say if you care about someone, you should tell them when they say something or write something that makes them sound dumber than you know they are. I think this whole "live and let live" attitude can go too far. We&#39;ve gotten too P.C. It&#39;s time to stop tolerating ignorance.

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

Along the lines of &#39;its/it&#39;s&#39;, &#39;your/you&#39;re&#39; and &#39;whose/who&#39;s&#39;, let&#39;s not forget the triple whammy: &#39;their/they&#39;re/there&#39;.

And another pet peeve of mine: putting an apostrophe before the s in a plural for no apparent fucking reason&#33; I wanted to scream when I saw the sign that said SALE: ALL CHIP&#39;S&#33; What&#39;s with the apostrophe?

 

[absinthium]

[post=342105]Quoted post[/post][/right]

Someguy, this isn&#39;t a personal attack on you. Stuttering and completely misspelling simple words are totally different. I didn&#39;t mention stuttering at all in this thread. I would never criticize someone for stuttering, that&#39;s something you can&#39;t help... I often speak too quickly and people have to ask me to repeat myself often, so I can imagine that is for you.
No one is perfect, my point is not to crucify anyone, but that gross misspelling denotes a lack of education, and a sort of willful ignorance. I wish more people cared about not sounding ignorant, but that just isn&#39;t a priority in this country these days. Our art (music especially) is suffering because of it, this complacency with everything being good enough, fuck the details. As I just posted, being able to speak and spell as well as I like to think I do has helped me immensely. I&#39;m not necessarily mad at people who do these things... I&#39;m mad at the people that never told them not to. Except, of course, in the case of my English major friend who should have known better and others like him.

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

Originally posted by SomeGuyOverThere@Sep 10 2005, 03:22 PM
Language is there for the exchange of information, as long as you can understand the person, why do they need to be 100% accurate?

Basically, what I&#39;m saying is this: I&#39;m more interested in what the person is saying, not in how they say it.

I&#39;m interested in what the person is saying also, but language is more than a medium of communication: it conveys information about the speaker as well. I&#39;m not saying that everyone should speak like William Buckley or Orson Welles; that would work my last nerve. But a lack of attention to simple rules of grammar and spelling can suggest a general lack of attention to details and disregard for for our most important means of communication. Ignorance or substandard education is often inferred from a lack of efficiency in one&#39;s native tongue. Whether or not that assumption is just is immaterial: first impressions are important and the first words out of one&#39;s mouth or on one&#39;s written page make one hell of an impression.

 

[absinthium]

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@Sep 10 2005, 04:39 PM
Trust me: that&#39;s broached during the first week. "When you&#39;re tempted to use the word &#39;irregardless&#39;, pretend you&#39;re Van Gogh and cut off the &#39;ir&#39; (&#39;ear&#39;)." Corny, but it works&#33;

[post=342110]Quoted post[/post]​

I LOVE it&#33; My beloved English teacher was full of goofy cathch phrases like that, and it made her all the more endearing to me. She would sign all of her personal notes with the phrase, "Metaphors be with you&#33;"

So dorky, yet so adorable...

She had terrible taste in almost everything, but my GOD that woman knew her grammar. She wrote the handbook on grammar the whole school district used, and was the head of out English department. Of everything I learned in high school, I&#39;d say what she taught me was the most valuable. I sincerely hope your students come to feel the same way about the gift you&#39;re giving them.

 

[absinthium]

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@Sep 10 2005, 04:51 PM
Along the lines of &#39;its/it&#39;s&#39;, &#39;your/you&#39;re&#39; and &#39;whose/who&#39;s&#39;, let&#39;s not forget the triple whammy: &#39;their/they&#39;re/there&#39;.

EWWW... Yeah, that&#39;s a good one. One I often struggle with is "who" and "whom." I know it should be a simple concept, but it still throws me off from time to time. I&#39;ve even looked it up and read about it extensively, but it&#39;s still something quite algebraic to my small mind for no apparent reason.

And another pet peeve of mine: putting an apostrophe before the s in a plural for no apparent fucking reason&#33; I wanted to scream when I saw the sign that said SALE: ALL CHIP&#39;S&#33; What&#39;s with the apostrophe?

[post=342116]Quoted post[/post]​

I love things like that... When I go to the local pool, for instance, and on the sign that reads, "NO RUNNING" the phrase is actually in quotes. Who said that? Aristotle? Was he really that peeved about kids running around a pool?

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

Originally posted by absinthium@Sep 10 2005, 04:16 PM
One I often struggle with is "who" and "whom." I know it should be a simple concept, but it still throws me off from time to time.

It really is a simple concept. If it&#39;s the subject or predicate nominative of a clause, it&#39;s who. If it&#39;s a direct or indirect object or object of a preposition, it&#39;s whom. Analysing it any further than that just confuses the issue.

 

[SomeGuyOverThere]

[post=342105]Quoted post[/post][/right]

Someguy, this isn&#39;t a personal attack on you. Stuttering and completely misspelling simple words are totally different. I didn&#39;t mention stuttering at all in this thread. I would never criticize someone for stuttering, that&#39;s something you can&#39;t help... I often speak too quickly and people have to ask me to repeat myself often, so I can imagine that is for you.
No one is perfect, my point is not to crucify anyone, but that gross misspelling denotes a lack of education, and a sort of willful ignorance. I wish more people cared about not sounding ignorant, but that just isn&#39;t a priority in this country these days. Our art (music especially) is suffering because of it, this complacency with everything being good enough, fuck the details. As I just posted, being able to speak and spell as well as I like to think I do has helped me immensely. I&#39;m not necessarily mad at people who do these things... I&#39;m mad at the people that never told them not to. Except, of course, in the case of my English major friend who should have known better and others like him.

[post=342118]Quoted post[/post]​

Now, I can agree with you when you put it like that, but in earlier posts I read it as just pedantisism (A word I may have just made up), and generally anal behaviour.

 

[madame_zora]

Speaking as her mother now, I can assure you Julianna is far more critical of herself than she&#39;d ever be of anyone else. Pedantic? Perhaps, but you may well be assured that the intention is genuine. We have both called each other or looked things up in a dictionary or online to discover a proper spelling or tense usage of a particular word.
Language is how we communicate, respect for language shows respect for those with whom you are trying to communicate.

No one is talking about the occasional typo or missing letter or word from typing too fast but just not putting effort into one&#39;s words, either typed or spoken, is sheer laziness. If we accept the general decline of form in language, we risk getting to a point where we truly do have difficulty conveying ideas to each other.

Language is not class-exclusive. Anyone can choose to speak the queen&#39;s English and be perceived as a person of significance. Likewise, those who do not will be perceived quite differently, regardless of what the truth is about their intelligence. If things are posted about universal language mistakes, we all grow in gracefulness. As a native English speaking person, my understanding of the language is not as refined as Jacinto&#39;s. I find that impressive and seek to learn from those more knowledgable than myself. No doubt there are a good many people on this board to whom I look for guidance and information on a variety of subjects.

Being willing to learn means we must first admit that we don&#39;t already know everything. This is actually a first step into adulthood. We all go through those invincible teen years where we think we&#39;re bullet-proof and smarter than all the adults we know. Eventually we must come to a place where we understand that our formal education was only the beginning and we now have the rest of our lives to continue the process. This is painful and embarassing for almost everyone&#33; However, it is clear when you are speaking to someone who has not yet made this connection that their level of maturity is still stuck in adolescence. We all get our "paper", be it a diploma, degree or doctorate and want to believe we have arrived, only to fall on our face at one point or another, thus realising we are not the Yoda we wanted to believe we were. I STILL shrink in horror thinking I may be exposed as a moron if I misspell a word, but I hope someone who likes me would tell me so I wouldn&#39;t continue to do it. I liked the bugger example&#33;

And now, my pet peeve.

THEN- refers to time, as in "I&#39;ll do it THEN"

THAN- refers to comparison, as in "His dick is bigger THAN mine"

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

Well, I think people tend to make serious issues out of grammar and spelling when there are clearly more things going on in the world that are much more pressing and of greater interest. That said, maybe some posters might benefit from running their posts through a good spell-checker, but that, overall, it&#39;s really not that big a deal.

I would like to think of "ignorance" as a function of one&#39;s social microcosm. Quite frankly, unless you grow up in a setting that prioritizes proper English, grammar, spelling, etc., then there&#39;s going to be a segment of the audience that remains indifferent to the "rules" of good English. What&#39;s that? The education system should instill that want for good language? Oh, I agree. Then again, I&#39;m no fool; there are plenty of low-funded, terribly-staffed educational institutions that would as soon pass high schoolers with minimal middle school age-appropriate writing and language skills, leaving them high and dry when they get out in the real world.

Can&#39;t say I usually let someone&#39;s command of higher lexicon determine just how much inherent worth they carry. I think that their actions, morals, and interpersonal feelings matter way more than a few slip-ups.

 

[steve319]

Hey, I love grammar talk as much as the next guy. Being trained to edit makes one look at the world through particularly critical glasses. It takes work sometimes to ignore these errors and enjoy the simple pleasures of a poorly worded pop song, for example.

Talking about this sort of thing is a fine line, I think, because it would be easy to use these criticisms as a form of censorship--to silence otherwise-valid voices due to presentation issues, especially in an online support-group forum.

I&#39;m pleased that we&#39;re talking about this without it springing from an attack on the skills of a particular member here. I can totally get behind strong, correct language usage when it&#39;s not a discussion had at the expense of a particular person.

Just because someone is lacking skills in spelling/grammar/usage (and that isn&#39;t always an indicator of lack of education or laziness--there are legitimate disorders that include spelling disabilities) doesn&#39;t mean that his/her experiences aren&#39;t valid or that he/she isn&#39;t in need of as much support, encouragement, and compassion as the next person. If only we could keep these discussions isolated in this topic instead of attacking other members....

(Oh, and my peeve is definitely the use of the word "of" instead of "have," as in "I should of known better than to write this sentence.")

 

[madame_zora]

Another reason someone may not exhibit great language skills is because English is not their first language.

This thread takes issue with no particular person, just general observations of the lower level of grammar skills online than in other forms of printed literature. Granted, we are not professional authors, but I think that attempting to bring acknowledgement to the idea of self editing is a good thing.

Now, if a person has a learning deficiency, that is usually quite obvious from the posting style in general. No one here (at least not me) is going to call out someone who is clearly doing their best. Yes, I do believe that content is more important than form, but that doesn&#39;t mean that form is immaterial.

I think most irritating errors could be reduced tremedously if people would just take the extra few minutes it takes to READ their own writing before they hit "add reply".

 

[Solis25]

I find this entire discussion very interesting and it certainly reflects my own views. I always thought native English speakers in general tend to be less proud of their own language than, say, the French. Even here in Germany, where people bitch about having a complicated language (which they don&#39;t really, in my opinion), they still pay attention about speaking some amount of proper German (again, as far as my three-year experience here goes). There&#39;s even a bestseller here about common mistakes and how to improve your speaking skills. It&#39;s refreshing to read here that so many native English-speakers DO actually care AND notice these damn little confusions which have been mentioned thus far. I cringe every time I read them and wonder how come I only had three years of English immersion in elementary school and STILL don&#39;t make those mistakes myself (I make other, more elaborate mistakes ;o)

Big hugs to all of you lovers and guardians of your language(s)&#33; Even if it&#39;s not THE most pressing and important topic around, as Dee mentionned, it&#39;s worth at least keeping it in mind...

 

[Geekyraccoon]

I think it&#39;s important to realize, though, that there really is no one &#39;proper&#39; way to speak english. All dialects are valid. Language does change over time, which is how other languages evolve. Many of these pet peeves are pretty much universals for english, so that&#39;s not the issue. Just keep in mind that simply because someone doesn&#39;t speak the exact way you do, doesn&#39;t make them wrong.

There is a lot of stereotyping of any dialect other than &#39;formal&#39; english. They are seen as inferior, when they are perfectly valid for the region in which they are spoken.

Just a couple more cents.

 

[pippi]

english is not my first language and i am far from being a good writer. one thing i first came in contact with through the internet, which really puzzeled me a long time, is the lack of the 3rd person singular "S". it took me some time to get used to it and accept the fact, that it seems to come from the spoken language some people use.

 

[absinthium]

Okay, everyone... Let&#39;s all take a deep breath here.

Are we good? Okay...

NOW: I will not let a talk about bad grammar turn into an LPSG brawl. This is about pet peeves, not wishing someone was dead for spelling "definitely" "definately."

If I said, "Wow, I sure hate it when someone spits gum on the sidewalk and I step in it," I&#39;m sure there are folks on here that would come to the defense of those that choose to spit gum on the sidewalk, bringing their political and societal views into it, just for the sake of being able to argue with strangers.

Bad grammar is irritating. Poor spelling is irritating.

THAT&#39;S MY WHOLE POINT, IN A NUTSHELL.

I didn&#39;t mean to start shit with anyone, I just wanted, originally, to point out the correct spelling of the word "masturbate" because it is so frequently used on this forum, and is so frequently misspelled.

That&#39;s all.

 

[absinthium]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Sep 11 2005, 12:26 AM
THEN- refers to time, as in "I&#39;ll do it THEN"

THAN- refers to comparison, as in "His dick is bigger THAN mine"

[post=342192]Quoted post[/post]​

Sheesh... Good one. I think we&#39;re unearthing all the nasties of the misuse of the English language with this thread. Hopefully we&#39;ll all learn a little something...

I know I did, thanks to DMW.