McCain and Obama First "Debate" Last Night

Freddie53

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On CNN There was a "debate between Obama and McCain. It wasn't a true debate because each candidate had one hour with the very same set of questions. Obama was first. At the end of his time, McCain came to the stage, the two met, gave a slight hug and a firm handshake and then Obama left the stage. McCain was in a room so that he could NOT hear how Obama answered the questions.

Pastor Rich Warren hosted the event at his church. Apparently Warren is personal friends with both men.

The purpose of this event was to give each man a chance to share about faith; how he makes decisions and that sort of thing.

I was surprised. This type of event clearly showed each man in his own style, personality etc. I saw who both men are more than any other time I have seen them on TV.

What I learned was that:

1. McCain is a "Bushite." If you really don't like Bush, then you won't like McCain.

2. Obama showed that he is a deep thinker who really answered the questions that were asked. McCain chose to give a political spin on his remarks barely touching on the question numerous times.

3. McCain showed that he is very impulsive and a extreme quick thinker. Both can be good qualities, but both can get a person or nation is a lot of trouble.

4. Obama showed that he is very spiritual, has a real relationship with Jesus Christ. I don't see how anyone with any intelligence could come away from that interview still believing the heresy that Obama is a Muslim.

5. McCain showed that his first allegiance is to America. He made that statement. He does believe in God. His slant though is a little different. NOt saying he is wrong. Obama's statements about faith were more in line with my thinking, very much so.

6. On the subject of evil the two mens answers were different. The choices were no evil, defeat it, contain it or eliminate it.

McCain's answer was to eliminate all evil and then he gave his examples of how to go about it. More war as evil is the problem in Iraq, the nation of Georgia, not the southern state Georgia and a few other examples.

Obama said that the total elimination of evil was up to God, but that we can be soldiers in that fight to eliminate evil where ever we see it. But his examples were poverty, aids epidemic and other examples that weren't about politics or starting wars.

7. On abortion, McCain said human life begins at conception. Obama said that he didn't know where human life (as in having a soul) begins and that was I don't remember his words, but I remember my perception was that was in God's domain. I agree wholeheartedly. (The medieval church thought life was in the seed as in the sperm. That is why they taught masturbation was wrong. It was taking life. I hope that is not next on the ultra right wing religous agenda!!!)

Obama want to reduce abortion by making adoption easier, providing heath care and other help to women so that it makes it economically easier for the woman to keep the baby and raise it and not be in poverty.

McCain only offered making the abortion choice a crime.

8. The question was asked, "What is rich." Give a numerical number.

Obama reply was $250,000 a year. McCain refused to give a number saying we all are rich if we have a job and are happy. McCain is against having the rich pay more because they have more.

9. Comments to several questions revealed that McCain is solidly behind the Republican agenda. The agenda that has swelled our national debt to heights unknown.

10. TAXES.

McCain wants to reduce them some more. That will only swell our national debt to China even more. Someday we will pay dearly for that mistake.

Obama. Obama has a plan to increase social security taxes starting in about 10 years. While this wasn't pointed out in that interview the Republican commentators are calling that a tax increase. If that isn't done then social security will not be able to pay out the benefits. Everyone knows that. That is the time I will really be needing social security as I will be to old to work provided I am even alive.

What Obama did promise is there would be no tax increase for people who make less than $250,000. And some tax reduction for some people under $250,000. Closing some loops that some corporations and people use to get out of paying taxes would be closed as the working man can't take advantage of those.

11. The question of privacy was asked. Both men were in favor of the right to privacy. I don't remember Obama's resonse as it didn't stand out in my mind. McCain said he was for right to privacy but with modern technology we needed to be able to monitor phone calls from out of the nation and gave other examples. I realize we have to take actions to protect our nation. But I am very skittish when politicians start talking about taking away our privacy. Bush's record on this (Patriot Act) should be unconstitutional.

SUMMATION

I know some of the Obama people here will curl just a little as this comment as I am going to compare Obama to Bill Clinton. Obama has that deep thinking and humble genuineness that Bill Clinton has. Obama is not only bright. He is brilliant. If Obama is elected, we can see things done pretty much like they were in the 90's balanced budget, and all the good indicators going up and the bad indicators going down. I don't mean that he will do exactly what Bill did then or Bill would do now. The result will the same. Both men are of a new school of Democrats.

I came away from the interview a solid Obama backer. I had some doubts before last night.

I had hopes that McCain was a different Republican. He is in that he doesn't make up his mind based on what a party tells him to do. That is admirable. I respect him for that. But McCain is solidly Republican through and through in his soul. That will tell us that we can expect more war, huge national debts, middle class dwindling, poverty increasing, but the rick getting richer and richer.

Some lingering thoughts that I might vote for McCain went down the tubes last night. I was a solid Hillary Clinton supporter and was still angry that Obama "took" this away from her. The anger disappeared last night.

If McCain wins in November he will be a war president for eight years if he lives that long. America will be the world's bully. If we don't watch it, the rest of the world will turn on us, cutting off everything the Republicans have allowed to be resourced out of the country. The rich will still be getting rich of the few goods that are allowed in at high prices.

The Great American Moment in history when we saved the world from Hitler will long be forgotten. The Republicans are for the most part wanting to built an American Empire, not just military alliances for security

If Obama is elected, the continuation of the outsourcing of jobs will be reversed. With the enormous debt, Obama can't change too much in eight years, but at least he can get the bad indicators going back in the right direction as good indicators in solving our nations problems.

A POINT TO PONDER NOT MENTIONED IN THE DEBATE

One thing not mentioned is that the percentage of black males incarnated in our prisons and the number of black males who are unemployed or make very little don't have a present day hero. As a school teacher, I firmly believe that Obama has the opportunity to be the role model that this young men need to try to get out of the cycle that has been repeated. Boys really need heroes. Heroes have a major impact on a person's behavior. Obama has a great chance to be just that super hero to millions of black males throughout our nation.

FOR THOSE WHO BYPASSED THE MIDDLE. OBAMA WON THE INTERVIEW "DEBATE" HANDS DOWN.
I made my decision last night to support Obama. All lingering doubts disappeared quickly.


I have great respect for McCain as a person, but I can't vote for him. His vision for America is just too for away from mine to do so.
 

Elmer Gantry

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I watched that as well and, while Obama's performance was admirable, I came away with a gloomy despair that no matter which team you guys vote for, no one will be better off for it.
 

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I saw that debate, and I thought Obama came off looking indecisive and weak. The abortion question was a great example. McCain gave a contrite, unambiguous answer: Life starts at conception. There is no question at all about where he stands. Obama, on the other hand, said that that dcision was "above his pay grade." That's bullshit. If Obama is to be the President, he has to MAKE a decision. "I don't know" doesn't help anyone.

But there's more to it than that. Had Obama answered "at conception," as McCain did, he would have alienated his strongly liberal base (but made great strides toward winning over white Evangelicals). Had he answered "at birth" or "sometime during pregnancy," he would have been booed and hissed by the strongly Christian audience at the Saddleback Church. We know from his voting record that his actual position on the matter is the latter; he was one of the most pro-abortion Senators in Illinois and the federal government. He was not trying to pass the buck to God; he was trying to sit on the fence and not commit to a position. In that respect, he has a lot in common with President Clinton (minus Clinton's gift for extemporaneous speaking). Freddie, this may have made him look good in your eyes, but I suspect you've been looking for reasons to like Obama and dislike McCain since Obama was nominated. If that is the case, I suggest you keep a more open mind.

If Obama is elected, we can see things done pretty much like they were in the 90's balanced budget, and all the good indicators going up and the bad indicators going down. I don't mean that he will do exactly what Bill did then or Bill would do now. The result will the same. Both men are of a new school of Democrats.

Clinton was NOT responsible for balancing the budget in the late 90's. He was simply in the right place at the right time. When Newt Gingrich and the Republicans took over Congress in 1994, they instituted several spending cuts and welfare reform. THAT is what caused the surplus.

Furthermore, the Republicans tried to push through a Balanced Budget Amendment that would have made it constitutionally IMPOSSIBLE for the government to ever deficit spend again. Clinton opposed it, and used his influence on a few key Senators to defeat the amendment. It lost by one vote in the Senate. Were it not for Clinton, the Bush administration would not have been able to spend nearly as much as they have. Is that the kind of leadership you're looking for from Obama?
 

Guy-jin

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Freddie, this may have made him look good in your eyes, but I suspect you've been looking for reasons to like Obama and dislike McCain since Obama was nominated. If that is the case, I suggest you keep a more open mind.

Switch the word "Obama" for "McCain" and the word "McCain" for "Obama" in this sentance and read it back to yourself.

Funny how that works, isn't it?
 

B_VinylBoy

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Damn... didn't know this was on. Was too busy watching the Olympics and that cute Michael Phelps. Hopefully they show a replay, but the summary was well documented and informative. Thanks, Freddie! :)
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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It doesn't matter who gets elected, the country is screwed. Taxes will be raised to help fund the ever growing dependence on the government. More and more people are going to need assistance, and people will still keep running down to buy imports. Imports hurt not help your country.
 

B_Nick4444

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Your fears about a presumed continuing American belligerence under McCain are echoed elsewhere, on occasion by some very thoughtful people.

Were that the possible outcome of a McCain Presidency, I would entirely agree with you, and, yes, some of McCain's statements seem to support that concern.

However, I feel the greater danger now is poised the more flighty, liberal internationalist policy outlines that Obama articulates pose the greater threat.

The actions that led us into the incursion in Iraq, for example, and the character of the diplomacy surrounding that action, that you are ascribing to the Republican Party, rest entirely on Bush's inner circle, not the larger party.

Likewise, with the careful selection of a more responsible and thoughtful team, McCain would avoid that sort of adventurism.

Would the fundamentally different outlook that Obama espouses, recognize the real dangers for the nation that lie ahead?

I fear not.

I don't think Obama recognizes, or even has any hint about the strategies being pursued and implemented by the PRC, Iran, or the Russian Federation.

If he does, I have to hear about it.



 

Freddie53

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I saw that debate, and I thought Obama came off looking indecisive and weak. The abortion question was a great example. McCain gave a contrite, unambiguous answer: Life starts at conception. There is no question at all about where he stands. Obama, on the other hand, said that that dcision was "above his pay grade." That's bullshit. If Obama is to be the President, he has to MAKE a decision. "I don't know" doesn't help anyone.

That is bullshit??? Why? Surely you jest!!! I thought that separation of church and state was a requirement of the U.S. Constitution. If our greatest theologians, by that I mean very learned, can't agree on that subject, what makes you think a politician running for public office would suddenly know the answer. While it is possible that God would choose Obama to give the world a very definitive and provable answer to that question. I am not expecting that to happen. We are electing a person to lead our nation, not be the President of a Seminary. Obama was not interviewing for the position of Senior Pastor as a large church. When Jesus was on earth, the Pharasies, who eventually talked Pontius Pilot into having Jesus murdered by crucifixion, were constantly trying to trick Jesus by asking such questions. Jesus turned that on them and it ticked them off enough to have Jesus arrested and the Jewish Sandedrin convicted Jesus of blasphamy, but had to have the Roman govenor approval and the Roman themselves carried out the executions.

Throughout history, the position on abortion and when life begins has changed. In the late 19th century, life was considered to begin when the mother felt the movement of the baby in her womb. I was taught by my mother that God gives a human soul to a baby at birth. I asked her about still born babies. Mother said that human life begins when the baby takes its first breath, that is when God puts the soul into the body of the baby. Genesis talks about God breathing life into Adam and Eve and beginning a "creature" different from the other animals.

During the Middle Ages, many people thought that the seed of man contained human life/ It was thoguht that if a man masturbated, his seed that he spilt was a human baby that he had just killed. People then didn't know about sperm and how there are millions of them in just one ejaculation. I certainly hope the religious right don't pick masturbation as their new religious law to force on every body regardless if they agree or disagree. I certainly hope that last statement is a joke, but you never know. There may be a masturbation test next. Have you ever masturbated Senator McCain. Would you appoint a judge to the Supreme Court that you have evidence that he has masturbated? I can see it now.



But there's more to it than that. Had Obama answered "at conception," as McCain did, he would have alienated his strongly liberal base (but made great strides toward winning over white Evangelicals). Had he answered "at birth" or "sometime during pregnancy," he would have been booed and hissed by the strongly Christian audience at the Saddleback Church. We know from his voting record that his actual position on the matter is the latter; he was one of the most pro-abortion Senators in Illinois and the federal government. He was not trying to pass the buck to God; he was trying to sit on the fence and not commit to a position. In that respect, he has a lot in common with President Clinton (minus Clinton's gift for extemporaneous speaking). Freddie, this may have made him look good in your eyes, but I suspect you've been looking for reasons to like Obama and dislike McCain since Obama was nominated. If that is the case, I suggest you keep a more open mind.

How interesting you plant the idea that Obama was trying not to commit to a position. Obama has and that is why you are angry with him. He is pro-abortion. He made that clear. Personally he doesn't like abortions and wants federal programs to reduce the number of women that are leaning toward the idea of an abortion by making it financially possible to go ahead and have that baby, raise it or put it up for adoption.

Just because he declined to answer a very complex theological question does not mean he refuses to take a stand. The question of when human life begins is about when God puts a soul there with the fetus. Is it in the sperm, conception, when the sperm/egg attach themselves to the wall of the uterus? Is it when the heart first starts beating. Is it when the fetus can first feel pain. Perhaps it is when the baby actually can move around, or it might be when the baby is viable. That is when the baby would be able to live if an emergency c section was medically required. Or when the baby takes its first breath. I believe when the baby takes its first breath. But then that is my opinion. It is what I believe. That doesn't mean that I should tell other people they are WRONG. Just a difference of faith opinion.


Clinton was NOT responsible for balancing the budget in the late 90's. He was simply in the right place at the right time. When Newt Gingrich and the Republicans took over Congress in 1994, they instituted several spending cuts and welfare reform. THAT is what caused the surplus.

I accept your critique of my support of Obama as possibly being valid. Thoug the very same can be said about your comments. A major reason I became 100 percent behind Obamao had just as much to do with the fact that my feelings that McCain would make a good president went down the tubes. McCain is too impulsive, trigger happy and sees war as the solution for all foreign affairs problems. He sees America as the center of an Empire, not just an independent nation we know as the USA.




Furthermore, the Republicans tried to push through a Balanced Budget Amendment that would have made it constitutionally IMPOSSIBLE for the government to ever deficit spend again. Clinton opposed it, and used his influence on a few key Senators to defeat the amendment. It lost by one vote in the Senate. Were it not for Clinton, the Bush administration would not have been able to spend nearly as much as they have. Is that the kind of leadership you're looking for from Obama?


I accept your critique of my support of Obama as possibily being valid. Though one of the reasons I went 100 percent for Obama had just as much to do with the fact that my feelings that McCain would make a good president went down the tubes. He is too impulsive, trigger happy and sees war as the solution for all foreign affairs problems. He sees America as the center of an Empire, not just an independent nation we know as the USA.

Were it not for Clinton, the Bush administration would not have been able to spend nearly as much as they have.

Surely you aren't blaming Clinton for the massive unheard of national debt that has accumulated under George Bush. George was the wrong man in 2001 to keep the budget balanced. Clinton was wise to fight that amendment. No congress needs to tie the hands of the federal government to borrow even one cent during a national crisis or war. The Congress and President are SUPPOSED to take FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY. It was Bush who wanted to cut taxes but increase spending at the same time. If you took a new job that paid 80 % of what you make now, wouldn't you have to cut back some of your spending. Most of us would. The Congress and President did just about that. Took a pay cut and then bought a new car in this case start a new war. Wars costs money, lots of it.

As for Clinton, he did propose and pass welfare reform. It was Clinton who proposed the budgets that the Republican Congress eventually passed.

I am a Democrat and proud of it. But I also recognize some of Americas best days were when at least one house of Congress was controlled by the party that the president belonged to. The shining examples of that are the Eisenhower and Reagen and Clinton.

I don't think most Americans are aware of how much of the rest of the world has viewed America since George Bush came to power. Stories of torture that Bush claims meet International standards because they are "really" prison camps, they are detention camps are seen as a joke and a fraud by the rest of the world. Bush is driven by power not politcal positions. Bush likes to win. I read that before he was elected. I felt that McCain is of the same cloth. It is about winning. NOt making the world a better place.

My first reason to vote for Obama is I am voting against McCain. If something happens for me to see Obama is not the man, then I will find a third party candidate or just not vote at all in the presidential election. I'm not voting for John McCain.

I realize that Obama did come across in religous terms and didn't get into the political issues like McCain did. McCain talked to the crowd and the TV. Obama talked to Pastor Rick Warren as if it were just the two of them.

The purpose of the interviews was to see how each man felt about his faith, how he made decisions etc.

I found Obama to have a deep faith, think deeply and seriously about each issue and his first priority to making lives better for Americans first and then the world in general.

I found McCain to be have faith, but not willing to talk about it much. His first priority was the military. Somehow the military got into every question except abortion and I thought for a minute we would get the First Airborne Division into that question of faith.

I liked the man Obama. I would love for him to be my neighbor.

I didn't like McCain. I would not want him as a neighbor.



 

Skull Mason

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I'm not sure how one could come away from something like this with any better idea of what a person is really like. I could get up on stage in front of a crowd of people and put on a front, and no one would know that I'm Skull Mason the sex crazed slayer of the poonanny.

Obama fronts a lot. So does McCain though, but at least he seems to be steadfast with his shit (whether I agree with it or not- and I don't). Obama was up there fronting. He is the mad fronter. He fronts like he isn't fronting.
 

Northland

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On CNN There was a "debate between Obama and McCain. It wasn't a true debate because each candidate had one hour with the very same set of questions. Obama was first. At the end of his time, McCain came to the stage, the two met, gave a slight hug and a firm handshake and then Obama left the stage. McCain was in a room so that he could NOT hear how Obama answered the questions.
...and so ends your delusional topic title of "Debate". It was a set of questions plain and simple. Debate would involve some sort of back and forth, a give and take. (and yes, I am aware that you indicate that it was not a true debate. Point being that the title of your topic would have been more honest had you stated Questions and Answers.)
I was surprised. This type of event clearly showed each man in his own style, personality etc. I saw who both men are more than any other time I have seen them on TV.
Hogwash! To truly find both men as who they are, you'd need a hidden camera in a setting apart from the public eye. The two knew they were on television in front of an audience and that brings about some level of change (and not just the sort that Obama keeps crowing about),
1. McCain is a "Bushite." If you really don't like Bush, then you won't like McCain.
McCain is a Republican; however he has crossed the political aisle a number of times-why does it bother you so that someone could truly have that ability?
2. Obama showed that he is a deep thinker who really answered the questions that were asked. McCain chose to give a political spin on his remarks barely touching on the question numerous times.
Yes of course-Obama had no political agenda to place out there:rolleyes:.

3. McCain showed that he is very impulsive and a extreme quick thinker. Both can be good qualities, but both can get a person or nation is a lot of trouble.
And the supposed Deep Thinking which you attribute to Obama can also place the nation in peril. If one spends too much time thinking, golden opportunities exit.

4. Obama showed that he is very spiritual, has a real relationship with Jesus Christ. I don't see how anyone with any intelligence could come away from that interview still believing the heresy that Obama is a Muslim.
Yes, I can pull off the spiritual show as well. As to beng a Muslim, what's your problem with that? Don't say it's not, it clearly is, as is evidenced by your bringing it up.
5. McCain showed that his first allegiance is to America. He made that statement. He does believe in God. His slant though is a little different. NOt saying he is wrong. Obama's statements about faith were more in line with my thinking, very much so.
Faith alone isn't going to lead the nation and in a nation filled with agnostics and atheists as well as the God fearers and tree worshipers, McCain has a better connect to the people (which is good since he doesn't have much connection anywhere else).

6. On the subject of evil the two mens answers were different. The choices were no evil, defeat it, contain it or eliminate it.

McCain's...eliminate all evil and then he gave his examples of how to go about it. More war as evil is the problem in Iraq, the nation of Georgia, not the southern state Georgia and a few other examples.

Obama said that the total elimination of evil was up to God, but that we can be soldiers in that fight to eliminate evil where ever we see it. But his examples were poverty, aids epidemic and other examples that weren't about politics or starting wars.
I must admit that when Obama used the poverty and AIDS examples I was impressed, he clearly understood the question much better than McCain. Score one for Obie.

7. On abortion, McCain said human life begins at conception. Obama said that he didn't know where human life (as in having a soul) begins and that was I don't remember his words, but I remember my perception was that was in God's domain. I agree wholeheartedly. (The medieval church thought life was in the seed as in the sperm...)
Obama want to reduce abortion by making adoption easier, providing heath care and other help to women so that it makes it economically easier for the woman to keep the baby and raise it and not be in poverty.

McCain only offered making the abortion choice a crime.
I agree with both men. I agree with McCain on when life begins, from the moment of conception (a single cell is an energy form which equates to being life-this is my view.) I agree with Obama on his idea of making adoption easier (and how about less costly? Maybe Uncle Sam could step in and foot part of the bill on the adoption costs,)

Regarding abortion, I see no reason to make it a crime. It should be a right which any woman can take advantage of. Should the government foot the bill? Within reason. Anything beyond three would seem excessive as far as government paying. (Please note, I am personally against abortion; however, I believe in the woman's right to choose)

8. The question was asked, "What is rich." Obama reply was $250,000 a year. McCain refused to give a number saying we all are rich if we have a job and are happy. McCain is against having the rich pay more because they have more.
Interesting-you make mention of McCain's view on taxes; but negelect telling how Obama is on this. (and I think Obama needs a reality check if he is placing the rich level at $250,000. That would be a high wage for most people. Hell, there are families of 5 or 6 or more living decently on half of that. I live in New York City, one of the most expensive places in the world and live on less than 25% of that amount and feel quite well off.

I also appreciate McCain's approach of getting spiritual for that moment by indicating that true wealth comes from happiness.

9. Comments to several questions revealed that McCain is solidly behind the Republican agenda. The agenda that has swelled our national debt to heights unknown.
Oh. Let me see now, McCain is backing the Republican agenda and he is running on the Republican ticket? How odd:rolleyes:. (and why no mention of how Obama clings to the Democratic platform? You are showing your bias through omission.)

10. TAXES.
McCain wants to reduce them some more. That will only swell our national debt to China even more. Someday we will pay dearly for that mistake.

Obama. Obama has a plan to increase social security taxes starting in about 10 years. While this wasn't pointed out in that interview the Republican commentators are calling that a tax increase. If that isn't done then social security will not be able to pay out the benefits. Everyone knows that. That is the time I will really be needing social security as I will be to old to work provided I am even alive.
How sweet-I am talking to the Obama Social Security plan. Isn't it sweet how he plans to have it kick in ten years hence? Let me see now, that would mean two terms of a Democrat, most likely followed by a Republican (these things tend to follow historically) which means in 2016 a Republican would be elected and then in about 2019 the Social Security tax, er, um, deduction, would increase just shortly before the stage was set for the 2020 elections (candidates start poling their heads out of the ground in the year prior, which would be 2019). Still think Obama isn't being a full-blooded politician? (and call it a tax or a deduction, it's still a smaller paycheck taken home)


What Obama did promise is there would be no tax increase for people who make less than $250,000. And some tax reduction for some people under $250,000. Closing some loops that some corporations and people use to get out of paying taxes would be closed as the working man can't take advantage of those.
I haven't bought this promise of no new taxes since George the First said: "Read my lips, no new taxes." we know where that went. No politician can make an honest promise about taxes because there is no crystal ball or magical tarot deck to tell what the next several years may bring.

11. The question of privacy was asked. Both men were in favor of the right to privacy. I don't remember Obama's resonse as it didn't stand out in my mind. McCain said he was for right to privacy but with modern technology we needed to be able to monitor phone calls from out of the nation and gave other examples. I realize we have to take actions to protect our nation. But I am very skittish when politicians start talking about taking away our privacy. Bush's record on this (Patriot Act) should be unconstitutional.
Your selective memory on Obama is worrisome to say the least-you may be suffering from selective memory loss (happens to politicians as well).

As to McCain and the Patriot Act, I support the Patriot Act and considering how much and how many times I have been targeted by it, I believe that says a great deal about how important many of us (American Citizens) find it to be.

I do not have much belief in either candidate at present and am only tepidly leaning towards Obama. A great deal of the weight towards tipping the scale completely for me will hinge upon the Veep candidate that each man selects.
 

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I'm not sure how one could come away from something like this with any better idea of what a person is really like. I could get up on stage in front of a crowd of people and put on a front, and no one would know that I'm Skull Mason the sex crazed slayer of the poonanny.

Obama fronts a lot. So does McCain though, but at least he seems to be steadfast with his shit (whether I agree with it or not- and I don't). Obama was up there fronting. He is the mad fronter. He fronts like he isn't fronting.

LOL.

On CNN There was a "debate between Obama and McCain.

No one...not pundits...not even Obama backers believe Obama won that debate. In fact, most believe Obama made serious gaffes, missed an opportunity to gain in the evangelical vote, looked indecisive and cliche' philosophical providing pat answers. In other words Obama appeared to be full of it.

I actually heard one person on CNN say...Obama has to prepare better for the next debate.
 

Guy-jin

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LOL.



No one...not pundits...not even Obama backers believe Obama won that debate. In fact, most believe Obama made serious gaffes, missed an opportunity to gain in the evangelical vote, looked indecisive and cliche' philosophical providing pat answers. In other words Obama appeared to be full of it.

I actually heard one person on CNN say...Obama has to prepare better for the next debate.

Oh good, an even hand here to tell us how it is.

Why do people even bother with these threads? There's no discussion of any worth in them. It's always the same people with the same stances bagging on each other. None of you ever change your mind.
 

ClaireTalon

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Uhhh... oh god, what an amount of text. Wish I could write that much. Just let me throw in some comments, ok?

On CNN There was a "debate between Obama and McCain. It wasn't a true debate because each candidate had one hour with the very same set of questions. Obama was first. At the end of his time, McCain came to the stage, the two met, gave a slight hug and a firm handshake and then Obama left the stage. McCain was in a room so that he could NOT hear how Obama answered the questions.

Pastor Rich Warren hosted the event at his church. Apparently Warren is personal friends with both men.

The purpose of this event was to give each man a chance to share about faith; how he makes decisions and that sort of thing.

I was surprised. This type of event clearly showed each man in his own style, personality etc. I saw who both men are more than any other time I have seen them on TV.

I wouldn't overrate this "debate". This was campaigning for christian votes, and I believe both candidates adapted their replies to the expectations of the audience. Let's face it: For years, these voters have always been the receivers of numerous promises, but then only have been fed bits and crumbs of it.

What I learned was that:

1. McCain is a "Bushite." If you really don't like Bush, then you won't like McCain.

I'm a little disappointed, but I think he has learned a lesson from the Republican primaries of the year 2000. He was rather much contrasting Bush jr. then, and lost mostly because he broke with too many republican traditions, like substantial industrial funding, positions towards the ultraconservative wing of the party, etc. Still, this makes his political position more diffuse: Where is he really? More centered or more to the extreme conservatism?

Also, he is under enormous pressure: To become president, he'd have to win all the states that Bush won in 2004.

2. Obama showed that he is a deep thinker who really answered the questions that were asked. McCain chose to give a political spin on his remarks barely touching on the question numerous times.

See the comment above. My impression is that he is trying to throw a smokescreen over his true political position.

3. McCain showed that he is very impulsive and a extreme quick thinker. Both can be good qualities, but both can get a person or nation is a lot of trouble.

What do you expect? He once used to make his bread by flying fighter bombers. Quick thinking is of substantial necessity then. Impulsivity not so much, but then, we already know that he can be quite impulsive.

4. Obama showed that he is very spiritual, has a real relationship with Jesus Christ. I don't see how anyone with any intelligence could come away from that interview still believing the heresy that Obama is a Muslim.

Neither do I. But who said that

(a) Every voter has intelligence and
(b) Religious obsession can not becloud intelligence?

5. McCain showed that his first allegiance is to America. He made that statement. He does believe in God. His slant though is a little different. NOt saying he is wrong. Obama's statements about faith were more in line with my thinking, very much so.

I'm no religious person, and being mainly technically educated, I don't like politicians putting religious aspects in their discussion. However, obviously, there are enough voters who are looking for exactly this.

6. On the subject of evil the two mens answers were different. The choices were no evil, defeat it, contain it or eliminate it.

McCain's answer was to eliminate all evil and then he gave his examples of how to go about it. More war as evil is the problem in Iraq, the nation of Georgia, not the southern state Georgia and a few other examples.

Obama said that the total elimination of evil was up to God, but that we can be soldiers in that fight to eliminate evil where ever we see it. But his examples were poverty, aids epidemic and other examples that weren't about politics or starting wars.

See comment above. Why can't the pastor be a little more concrete about this?

7. On abortion, McCain said human life begins at conception. Obama said that he didn't know where human life (as in having a soul) begins and that was I don't remember his words, but I remember my perception was that was in God's domain. I agree wholeheartedly. (The medieval church thought life was in the seed as in the sperm. That is why they taught masturbation was wrong. It was taking life. I hope that is not next on the ultra right wing religous agenda!!!)

Obama want to reduce abortion by making adoption easier, providing heath care and other help to women so that it makes it economically easier for the woman to keep the baby and raise it and not be in poverty.

McCain only offered making the abortion choice a crime.

As delicate as the subject is, I would discard abortion policy from the list of serious political subjects, at least on a federal agenda. I wonder why any activist against abortion still believes in politicians who are promising to criminalize abortion, or similar. The number of votes of pro-abortion activists is large enough to make every politician think twice about dishing that out if he is looking for a second term.

8. The question was asked, "What is rich." Give a numerical number.

Obama reply was $250,000 a year. McCain refused to give a number saying we all are rich if we have a job and are happy. McCain is against having the rich pay more because they have more.

One of the positions where I'd disagree with McCain. But then again, scaring well-doing taxpayers away is the usual writing on the wall, and I suspect it's true.

9. Comments to several questions revealed that McCain is solidly behind the Republican agenda. The agenda that has swelled our national debt to heights unknown.

10. TAXES.

McCain wants to reduce them some more. That will only swell our national debt to China even more. Someday we will pay dearly for that mistake.

Obama. Obama has a plan to increase social security taxes starting in about 10 years. While this wasn't pointed out in that interview the Republican commentators are calling that a tax increase. If that isn't done then social security will not be able to pay out the benefits. Everyone knows that. That is the time I will really be needing social security as I will be to old to work provided I am even alive.

In ten years? Guess who will have to defend that project when it comes up. Certainly not Obama.

What Obama did promise is there would be no tax increase for people who make less than $250,000. And some tax reduction for some people under $250,000. Closing some loops that some corporations and people use to get out of paying taxes would be closed as the working man can't take advantage of those.


SUMMATION

I know some of the Obama people here will curl just a little as this comment as I am going to compare Obama to Bill Clinton. Obama has that deep thinking and humble genuineness that Bill Clinton has. Obama is not only bright. He is brilliant. If Obama is elected, we can see things done pretty much like they were in the 90's balanced budget, and all the good indicators going up and the bad indicators going down. I don't mean that he will do exactly what Bill did then or Bill would do now. The result will the same. Both men are of a new school of Democrats.

I also see Obama be compared a lot to Clinton, but that's premature praise. And the question of brilliance is another point worth debating, in my opinion, neither candidate can be called a brilliant person. Obviously, he's more telegenic and knows how to really present himself as a person on the way up, especially since his opponent is 30 years older.

I came away from the interview a solid Obama backer. I had some doubts before last night.

I had hopes that McCain was a different Republican. He is in that he doesn't make up his mind based on what a party tells him to do. That is admirable. I respect him for that. But McCain is solidly Republican through and through in his soul. That will tell us that we can expect more war, huge national debts, middle class dwindling, poverty increasing, but the rick getting richer and richer.

The same hopes are what I have, and I still hang on to them. However, I don't like him slipping into the republican mainstream, but I also see the necessity of it. As I have said above, he is under enormous pressure regarding the number of votes he has to win. Adjusting his positions might be a way of playing for safety instead of attacking in force and scaring away traditional voters. Some numbers on that might be interesting.

Some lingering thoughts that I might vote for McCain went down the tubes last night. I was a solid Hillary Clinton supporter and was still angry that Obama "took" this away from her. The anger disappeared last night.

If McCain wins in November he will be a war president for eight years if he lives that long. America will be the world's bully. If we don't watch it, the rest of the world will turn on us, cutting off everything the Republicans have allowed to be resourced out of the country. The rich will still be getting rich of the few goods that are allowed in at high prices.

War president - yes. But you have a whole series of probable duds there. Be it McCain or Obama, regarding foreign policy and military policy, either will be above and before all some kind of bankruptcy trustee. And as popular as a troop reduction (or complete withdrawal) is, I don't see it as a solution to retire and leave a mess in the wars we started, Afghanistan and Iraq.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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Whether he realizes it or not, Rick Warren put that church in a precarious position. The IRS has ruled that churches cannot be used for political campaign purposes. If it had gotten a little bit out of line, and he or the leaders openly expressed who they support, the church could have been slapped by the IRS. They can have their own opinion as private citizens but not while on duty.
 

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So McCain was in a sound proof room while Obama answered the questions first?

But wasn't it later revealed that McCain wasn't even in the building ? I mean cmon'...some of those answers sounded nothing like whaw McCain would say on the fly.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, I'm just saying.....
 
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deleted15807

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Yada yada yada...all the talk about the candidates masks a huge ideological difference.


  • Do you believe government has a role in society or
  • Do you believe government just needs to get out of the way of business and let business 'provide' for the country.
The Bushies and the conservative movement have been at war with government since Reagan. If you think we need more of the same vote McCain. If you think we've had enough vote Obama.

If you think their personal beliefs mean anything more than the 'D' or the 'R' after their name means you haven't been paying attention.
 
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