McCAin - The New Champion of "Change" LOL

Phil Ayesho

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c'mon Phil. Can you at least try to be objective? Has your hatred for the right wing consumed your entire being? I know you are well read and interested in politics, your posts would be more engaging and believable if you could show some objectivity and humility instead of declaring war on every republican in existence.

I have objectivity.
voted for Bush's father- thought he was a good president.

I am not a "leftist"
I am well read, and I am as objective as any thinking person can be.

For example -I LOVED Clinton's second term, BECAUSE of the republican dominance of the Senate.
It was because of that dominance that Clinton was able to gut Welfare...
I prefer a "balance of power" and perspectives.

But I began to see that the republican's hatred toward "liberals' began to consume the entire party.
The money and time they spent investigating whitewater- to end up impeaching a President for not wanting to fess up to a clandestine blowjob.... that was one of the lowest points in GOP history.

I LOVED Eisenhower ( at least, what I came to know in school about him) He was the one who tried to warn the nation, as any treu republican should, about the dangers of the military industrial complex, and how its inflence was likely to get us into wars, and debt.



But I have paid close attention to the actions of the republicans ( and the democrats) these past 12 years... and it became distressingly clear that they were veering far from the GOP platform in their actions... they were clearly becoming hypocrites...

The GOP contract with america? They got into power, and immediately forgot all about term limits and balanced budgets.
They abrogated that contract...

And this last 8 years? Allegiance to the administration before allegiance to the nation?

The question I would ask you is this...

If you are TRUELY a consewrvative...
Why the hell aren't you OUTRAGED at what has been done in YOUR name?!

Can any fuck calling himself republican get a free pass from you for any violation of law? no matter how severe?

Clinton lied over a blowjob...
Not one US serviceman got a leg blown off over That lie... And I was pissed off about THAT lie.

If you really are a patriot... how can not not be sickened and appalled over the usurpation of power, the doing away with habeus corpus, the violation of due process, the graft...

EVERYTHING that made the US different... everything that made us an example for the free world... was UNDONE by these criminal fucks... who happen to call themselves republicans.


I would feel entirely differently if the CONSERVATIVEs were the ones standing up and shouting for an investigation, as they did over a stained dress.
If the conservative showed the slightest ability to RECOGNIZE and abhor the fact that their party had been over-run with con men.


SO, seriously...
How the fuck can someone who claims to be conservative not be angry over the ballooning size and intrusion of federal government?
Over the profligate spending on a war that was based on lies about threats that did not exist...


Sorry... until I see some shred of outrage from conservatives over the non-conservative criminality in their own ranks... they will not count in my book as Americans.


I am not a liberal.
I am a patriot.

That means... CONSTITUTION first... and every lying hack that does not live up to that document can go fuck themselves... regardless of 'party".
 

B_New End

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I have objectivity.
voted for Bush's father- thought he was a good president.

I am not a "leftist"
I am well read, and I am as objective as any thinking person can be.

For example -I LOVED Clinton's second term, BECAUSE of the republican dominance of the Senate.
It was because of that dominance that Clinton was able to gut Welfare...
I prefer a "balance of power" and perspectives.

But I began to see that the republican's hatred toward "liberals' began to consume the entire party.
The money and time they spent investigating whitewater- to end up impeaching a President for not wanting to fess up to a clandestine blowjob.... that was one of the lowest points in GOP history.

I LOVED Eisenhower ( at least, what I came to know in school about him) He was the one who tried to warn the nation, as any treu republican should, about the dangers of the military industrial complex, and how its inflence was likely to get us into wars, and debt.



But I have paid close attention to the actions of the republicans ( and the democrats) these past 12 years... and it became distressingly clear that they were veering far from the GOP platform in their actions... they were clearly becoming hypocrites...

The GOP contract with america? They got into power, and immediately forgot all about term limits and balanced budgets.
They abrogated that contract...

And this last 8 years? Allegiance to the administration before allegiance to the nation?

The question I would ask you is this...

If you are TRUELY a consewrvative...
Why the hell aren't you OUTRAGED at what has been done in YOUR name?!

Can any fuck calling himself republican get a free pass from you for any violation of law? no matter how severe?

Clinton lied over a blowjob...
Not one US serviceman got a leg blown off over That lie... And I was pissed off about THAT lie.

If you really are a patriot... how can not not be sickened and appalled over the usurpation of power, the doing away with habeus corpus, the violation of due process, the graft...

EVERYTHING that made the US different... everything that made us an example for the free world... was UNDONE by these criminal fucks... who happen to call themselves republicans.


I would feel entirely differently if the CONSERVATIVEs were the ones standing up and shouting for an investigation, as they did over a stained dress.
If the conservative showed the slightest ability to RECOGNIZE and abhor the fact that their party had been over-run with con men.


SO, seriously...
How the fuck can someone who claims to be conservative not be angry over the ballooning size and intrusion of federal government?
Over the profligate spending on a war that was based on lies about threats that did not exist...


Sorry... until I see some shred of outrage from conservatives over the non-conservative criminality in their own ranks... they will not count in my book as Americans.


I am not a liberal.
I am a patriot.

That means... CONSTITUTION first... and every lying hack that does not live up to that document can go fuck themselves... regardless of 'party".


Do you really think he knows anything about Eisenhower's foreign and domestic policies?

:laughing:
 

B_starinvestor

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Hey, Phil - i'm embarrassed by Ken Starr and and his multi-million dollar investigation of a blowjob. I hate that we're in Iraq. I hate that our economy sucks and people that I like and care about are hurting. At the same time, it's misdirected that so many people on this board blame republicans for every thing that is wrong. C'mon, even the village idiot isn't wrong 100% of the time.

What would make sense, I think, is if people debated on what is happening in 2008 and making formidable arguments on the candidates, and let GWB and teenage kids and the like alone.

Scroll through some of these threads and look at the obsession with the last 8 years. I don't care if you fucking hate McCain and Palin, they weren't in the flippin Administration. Let it go. Give these new candidates a fighting chance before you curse them to hell. That's all I'm asking.
 

B_New End

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Scroll through some of these threads and look at the obsession with the last 8 years. I don't care if you fucking hate McCain and Palin, they weren't in the flippin Administration. Let it go. Give these new candidates a fighting chance before you curse them to hell. That's all I'm asking.

Please, as if McCain wasn't part of the whole Bush debacle.
PLEASE! Give it up.

I love how you threw Palin in their too. :rolleyes:


No Palin hasn't been part of anything, that's *part* of the problem. No understanding of the national economy (see the freddie mac and fannie mae gaffe), and no understanding of foreign policy, except what is be force fed her by the Rove team.
 
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B_starinvestor

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Please, as if McCain wasn't part of the whole Bush debacle.
PLEASE! Give it up.

I love how you threw Palin in their too. :rolleyes:


No Palin hasn't been part of anything, that's *part* of the problem. No understanding of the national economy (see the freddie mac and fannie mae gaffe), and no understanding of foreign policy, except what is be force fed her by the Rove team.

And what do you know about the fannie/freddie debacle? This is getting old, but what does Obama know about the national economy again?
 

B_New End

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And what do you know about the fannie/freddie debacle? This is getting old, but what does Obama know about the national economy again?

read some of his essays, that he wrote himself.

What do I know about Fm/fm?

I returned 57% so far this year, how about you, starinvestor? Tough market, isn't it?

Quit insulting my intelligence. Can't you just once make a point without starting with an insult?

Wait, I know, from now on, I'm gonna call you a lockstep neocon Bush boot licking right wing fascist that drools over fox news and never hears anything from the blond bimbo's mouth... or something to that effect.

I will then impart on you my great knowledge.
 

B_starinvestor

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okay. I'm off the insults. Those were some good adjectives on the fox news thing lol, i can't deny that.

Why are you so anit-republican? Please no GWB, oil or mortgage stuff. Just tell me why.
 

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okay. I'm off the insults. Those were some good adjectives on the fox news thing lol, i can't deny that.

Why are you so anit-republican? Please no GWB, oil or mortgage stuff. Just tell me why.

GWB, Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, William Krystal, Paul Wolfowitz, Paul Bremer, James Wolsely, Francis Fukayama, Gonsalez, Myers, Rubber stamp congress, BORROW AND SPEND economic policy, USA PATRIOT Act, illegal wiretaping in San fransisco, IRAQ, IRAQ, IRAQ, IRAN, IRAN, IRAN.

Lets not forget the hypocrisy against gays, the delusions of christian persecutions, Faith based initiatives, Ken Lay, KATRINA....

They are a bunch of incompetant idiots!
 

SpeedoGuy

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After , guess who is now the self proclaimed "champion of change"...the so-called "Maverick"..

Ah yes, the carefully spun "maverick" myth of John McSame.

But, actually, he is adept at "change." He changes his colors, like a chameleon, to match whatever circumstances necessary.
 

D_Davy_Downspout

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Why are you so anit-republican? Please no GWB, oil or mortgage stuff. Just tell me why.

I can tell you why I personally dislike the Republican Party.

1) Pandering to the religious right: Abstinence only education? Awesome!

2) Blatant anti-science stance: a) Multiple presidential nominees(in the early running) who didn't buy evolution...whether to pander or because they are ignorant, I don't care. b) Suppressing evidence that contradicted the administrations opinion...global warming before even they couldn't ignore it, et al

3) Militant foreign policy - See: Iraq. Then horribly mismanaging the war.

4) Regressive tax policy

5) Corporate welfare

6) Opposing nationalized healthcare

7) Massive deficit spending

8) Massive cronyism: Asking Justice Department applicants for career positions loyalty questions

9) Massive Graft: Halliburton no-bids, Blackwater no-bids, ridiculous waste in Iraq(remember the lost 80bil?)

10) Audacious hypocricy: Saying that they want government out of your lives, then writing legislation that makes it 10 times more invasive.

Democrats are guilty to some extent on several of these things, but generally they have their own, different issues they suck on, like having balls.

I've left stuff out here, 10 points is enough.
 

B_starinvestor

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I can tell you why I personally dislike the Republican Party.

1) Pandering to the religious right: Abstinence only education? Awesome!

2) Blatant anti-science stance: a) Multiple presidential nominees(in the early running) who didn't buy evolution...whether to pander or because they are ignorant, I don't care. b) Suppressing evidence that contradicted the administrations opinion...global warming before even they couldn't ignore it, et al

3) Militant foreign policy - See: Iraq. Then horribly mismanaging the war.

4) Regressive tax policy

5) Corporate welfare

6) Opposing nationalized healthcare

7) Massive deficit spending

8) Massive cronyism: Asking Justice Department applicants for career positions loyalty questions

9) Massive Graft: Halliburton no-bids, Blackwater no-bids, ridiculous waste in Iraq(remember the lost 80bil?)

10) Audacious hypocricy: Saying that they want government out of your lives, then writing legislation that makes it 10 times more invasive.

Democrats are guilty to some extent on several of these things, but generally they have their own, different issues they suck on, like having balls.

I've left stuff out here, 10 points is enough.

Good epilogue. May I respond?

1. A large part of your Democratic contingency is represented by single mothers. Single mothers living in poverty and trapped in the welfare system - breeding dependency and multi-generational reliance on public assistance.
2. Evolution - I subscribe to it. Global warming - a fucking joke.
3. Iraq - a war waged to to misintelligence and them blamed on GWB
4. Regressive tax policy? I say effective tax policy.
5. Corporate welfare. We can discuss this anytime you'd like.
6. Nationalized healthcare? I've not been sold one way or another.
7. If your daughter or sister worked in the WTC, you'd be singing a different tune
8. Welcome to politics.
9. Yawn. Need I bring in Clinton's circle?
10. If someone threatens your home and your family, you spend more money on your alarm system.
 

durks

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Good epilogue. May I respond?

1. A large part of your Democratic contingency is represented by single mothers. Single mothers living in poverty and trapped in the welfare system - breeding dependency and multi-generational reliance on public assistance.
2. Evolution - I subscribe to it. Global warming - a fucking joke.
3. Iraq - a war waged to to misintelligence and them blamed on GWB
4. Regressive tax policy? I say effective tax policy.
5. Corporate welfare. We can discuss this anytime you'd like.
6. Nationalized healthcare? I've not been sold one way or another.
7. If your daughter or sister worked in the WTC, you'd be singing a different tune
8. Welcome to politics.
9. Yawn. Need I bring in Clinton's circle?
10. If someone threatens your home and your family, you spend more
money on your alarm system.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

1. This is not a response to abstinence only education or to a religious agenda. Ironically an abstinence only education is likely to result in more 'single mothers feeding the democratic demography'. As tripod so eloquently put in another thread - poverty breeds poverty. The US has the lowest welfare support per capita of all industrialized nations yet the largest gap in equality. What policies have been put in place to regress this trend? Lets just cut welfare some more, seems to be working....

2. To subscribe to Evolution and not Golbal Warming is a bit of a joke. Both are sciences long out of the realm of probability (the vast proportion of scientists in this area support the theory of global warming for over a decade), only one is economically more palatable than the other.
Two years ago the biggest piece of Antarctica ever recorded broke away, it ended as a 2km Ice Berg off NZ on the Southern parallel...
Fuk me...... I'm not going to exaust myself on this one, but seems fairly indulgent that you can be so selective into which science you believe. Doesn't the Whitehouse even support the theory...conspiracy eh, just like the dinosaurs.

3. The War was not started on misinformation, but on intentional mismanagment and propaganda. Come on... were it not for 9/11, would not have been possible to go after a threat from a country which was diametrically opposed to both the Taliban and Osama Bin Ladin. A great deal of American people, from polls and such, actually believed that Iraq had something to o with Osama.

4. Which Economic school did you subscibe to you, as I remember from mine, regressive tax policy is not an effective tax policy for creating national wealth. The trickle-down theory?? Wrong centry mate, been proven wrong just like Creationism.

6. access to health care is a fundamental human right. Like air, shelter and water, and the wealthiest nation on earth should be able to offer their citizens something better than a gutter to die in.

7. See War in Iraq - responsible Conservative economic mgmt - vote republican

10. If someone actively seeks risk, you get rid of the risk taker. Flash Alarms and whistles are nothing if you keep taking potshots at the prison across the road
 

B_starinvestor

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Good epilogue. May I respond?

1. A large part of your Democratic contingency is represented by single mothers. Single mothers living in poverty and trapped in the welfare system - breeding dependency and multi-generational reliance on public assistance.
2. Evolution - I subscribe to it. Global warming - a fucking joke.
3. Iraq - a war waged to to misintelligence and them blamed on GWB
4. Regressive tax policy? I say effective tax policy.
5. Corporate welfare. We can discuss this anytime you'd like.
6. Nationalized healthcare? I've not been sold one way or another.
7. If your daughter or sister worked in the WTC, you'd be singing a different tune
8. Welcome to politics.
9. Yawn. Need I bring in Clinton's circle?
10. If someone threatens your home and your family, you spend more
money on your alarm system.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

1. This is not a response to abstinence only education or to a religious agenda. Ironically an abstinence only education is likely to result in more 'single mothers feeding the democratic demography'. As tripod so eloquently put in another thread - poverty breeds poverty. The US has the lowest welfare support per capita of all industrialized nations yet the largest gap in equality. What policies have been put in place to regress this trend? Lets just cut welfare some more, seems to be working....

2. To subscribe to Evolution and not Golbal Warming is a bit of a joke. Both are sciences long out of the realm of probability (the vast proportion of scientists in this area support the theory of global warming for over a decade), only one is economically more palatable than the other.
Two years ago the biggest piece of Antarctica ever recorded broke away, it ended as a 2km Ice Berg off NZ on the Southern parallel...
Fuk me...... I'm not going to exaust myself on this one, but seems fairly indulgent that you can be so selective into which science you believe. Doesn't the Whitehouse even support the theory...conspiracy eh, just like the dinosaurs.

3. The War was not started on misinformation, but on intentional mismanagment and propaganda. Come on... were it not for 9/11, would not have been possible to go after a threat from a country which was diametrically opposed to both the Taliban and Osama Bin Ladin. A great deal of American people, from polls and such, actually believed that Iraq had something to o with Osama.

4. Which Economic school did you subscibe to you, as I remember from mine, regressive tax policy is not an effective tax policy for creating national wealth. The trickle-down theory?? Wrong centry mate, been proven wrong just like Creationism.

6. access to health care is a fundamental human right. Like air, shelter and water, and the wealthiest nation on earth should be able to offer their citizens something better than a gutter to die in.

7. See War in Iraq - responsible Conservative economic mgmt - vote republican

10. If someone actively seeks risk, you get rid of the risk taker. Flash Alarms and whistles are nothing if you keep taking potshots at the prison across the road


Indeed.

1. How about we agree that parents cover this one?
2. You think evolution and global warming are cousins? I don't.
3. I'm not concerned about polls and propaganda when it comes to Iraq. Bill Clinton even concedes that intelligence came from Great Britain, the CIA and FBI that suggested Iraq was a threat. Big difference between misinformation and lies.
4. Help me understand where trickle-down doesn't work. My undergrad is in Econ, and I must have been sick the day they taught that trickle down was a century behind.
5. I'm not condemning nationalized healthcare, and I'm not embracing it. I haven't settled on a position yet. However, I don't subscribe to the socialistic battlecry that healthcare is a fundamental human right. For example, I don't think Charles Manson is due an annual physical on my dollar.
7. War in Iraq - won't waste my time on this one.
10. You are missing the issue. gov't spending increased for the sole purpose of protecting our freedoms. Period.
 

durks

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Too Hard!

For the record my Undergrad is in Econ/Finance too. $ Consumption generally has a higher multiplier than $ Invested. Investment is economically futile without a consumption base. Maybe you did miss class.
Postgrad in Science, which part of Global Warming do you disagree with - that anthropogenic emissions has resulted in more CO2 and other non-degradable molecules in the stratosphere? Or that these prevent part of the solar energy from reflecting back into space?? It's not a fairy tale mate, and even that idiot George Dubyas been told to agree.

Its great that you believe strongly enough to disagree with others, but I firmly disagree with you. And I can say that I have looked from other perspectives, as I have changed my mind alot, can you?