McCAin - The New Champion of "Change" LOL

[B_starinvestor]

Too Hard!

For the record my Undergrad is in Econ/Finance too. $ Consumption generally has a higher multiplier than $ Invested. Investment is economically futile without a consumption base. Maybe you did miss class.

Sure, C is the key component. If taxes are lower, businesses can redirect those dollars into expansion, employ more workers, provide better compensation... and wala - increased C.

Postgrad in Science, which part of Global Warming do you disagree with - that anthropogenic emissions has resulted in more CO2 and other non-degradable molecules in the stratosphere? Or that these prevent part of the solar energy from reflecting back into space?? It's not a fairy tale mate, and even that idiot George Dubyas been told to agree.

The temperature hasn't increased. Show me an area where its warmer than 1600 A.D. and I'll show you a place where its colder than 1600 A.D.

Its great that you believe strongly enough to disagree with others, but I firmly disagree with you. And I can say that I have looked from other perspectives, as I have changed my mind alot, can you?

Yep.

 

[durks]

The temperature hasn't increased. Show me an area where its warmer than 1600 A.D. and I'll show you a place where its colder than 1600 A.D.

StarInvestor
------------------
No you won't starinvestor, cos you're not interested in looking, past perhaps a quick google search.
You'd rather base your assertions on a hunch than any widespread scientific logic.

We can not all be experts on everything, which is why we must find people that qualify as such to determine things outside our scope or time available to understand such things. Don't pretend to be an expert on everything mate.

I'm going to stop procrastinating and get onto more pressing issues.
Peace

 

[B_starinvestor]

We can not all be experts on everything, which is why we must find people that qualify as such to determine things outside our scope or time available to understand such things.

Agreed.

 

[earllogjam]

Personally I think the McCain camp is clutching straws at this point.

How many slogans have come out of their spin machine to define McCain? He's the change agent, and now the regulator. Please. How dumb do his handlers think we are?

Clearly not a very well run campaign compared to Obama's. McCain is clearly not executive material judging the way he is making campaign decisions and overseeing his handlers.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

knew that halfway thru the primaries...

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Sure, C is the key component. If taxes are lower, businesses can redirect those dollars into expansion, employ more workers, provide better compensation... and wala - increased C.

But they don't. Try backing up your belief system with actual facts.

Corporate taxes are high because when they are lowered, companies DO NOT INVEST IN GROWTH- the shareholders take the money and run.
That is the fact.

Lowering PERSONAL taxation does not cause the wealthy to invest in U.S. firms... the wealthy of the US are investing in CHINESE firms... I have been there and seen the money.
The wealthy invest in the market that looks to be growing the fastest... and right now, that is Asia.
The self obsessed and unscrupulous wealthy follow profit and could give a shit about the US or its citizens. ITs why they offshore jobs.

That is money LEAVING the country....

Not only do we have a trade deficit in PRODUCTS- we now have a trade deficit in LABOR.

This is not about loyalty to MONEY nor loyalty to CORPORATIONS...
Its about the survival of the U.S. as a power.

The temperature hasn't increased. Show me an area where its warmer than 1600 A.D. and I'll show you a place where its colder than 1600 A.D.

GAWD you're poorly educated.

Try and understand... global warming deniers are gonna look like the dolts that stuck to their guns about the Earth being flat.

you want to know a place that is warmer?
the Arctic.
There was no naviagable passage thru the arctic in 1600.


I myself am not a global warming alarmist...
But the most telling danger is not the temperature.

ITs the Pan Evaporation rate.

The pan evaporation rate is falling world wide. Due mostly to particulate pollution'

IT is the only thing keeping warming in check... but it is also reducing the average precipitation rate world wide.
What that means is a freshwater shortage and crop failures world wide.



We are in deep shit bucko- and you and your fellow ignoramusii better wake up to it soon.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Corporate taxes are high because when they are lowered, companies DO NOT INVEST IN GROWTH- the shareholders take the money and run.
That is the fact.

You are just incorrect here. Some profits are sent out to the shareholders in the form of dividends. The rest is put to work in the company. The shareholders can't "take the money and run" without selling their shares of stock.

Lowering PERSONAL taxation does not cause the wealthy to invest in U.S. firms... the wealthy of the US are investing in CHINESE firms... I have been there and seen the money.

Wow, you've seen the American money go into the Chinese firms? What - you can shrink yourself and exist in the bank wiring system now? You don't make any sense, you were 'there' and what saw Americans coming in with parachutes and briefcases of cash?

The wealthy invest in the market that looks to be growing the fastest... and right now, that is Asia.
The self obsessed and unscrupulous wealthy follow profit and could give a shit about the US or its citizens. ITs why they offshore jobs.

This doesn't characterize how the wealthy invest. Investors that chase profits and trends are uneducated investors and generally not wealthy at all.

Not only do we have a trade deficit in PRODUCTS- we now have a trade deficit in LABOR.

Our manufacturing sector has been shrinking. However, our service sector is growing.

GAWD you're poorly educated.

Right.

Try and understand... global warming deniers are gonna look like the dolts that stuck to their guns about the Earth being flat.

Its not flat?

I myself am not a global warming alarmist...
But the most telling danger is not the temperature.

ITs the Pan Evaporation rate.

The pan evaporation rate is falling world wide. Due mostly to particulate pollution'

from wikipedia:
"It is generally agreed that the evaporation from pans has been decreasing for the past half century over many regions of the Earth. However, the significance of this negative trend, as regards terrestrial evaporation, is still somewhat controversial, and its implications for the global hydrologic cycle remain unclear. The controversy stems from the alternative views that these evaporative changes resulted, either from global radiative dimming, or from the complementary relationship between pan and terrestrial evaporation. Actually, these factors are not mutually exclusive but act concurrently."

 

[ripsrips]

He voted with the republican majority 95% of the time....

And Barack Voted 100% of the time with the Dems...How is that Change?

 

[Phil Ayesho]

You are just incorrect here. Some profits are sent out to the shareholders in the form of dividends. The rest is put to work in the company. The shareholders can't "take the money and run" without selling their shares of stock.

listen- brainless... when corporate taxes are low- profits are PAID as dividends, dimwit.
That is money going to the shareholders without them having to sell stock.

When corporate taxes are HIGH, shareholders get a better return by re-investing money in company growth- and betting the stock will rise.

This means reducing profit- by reinvesting- evading taxes... and taking LESS in dividends.

Really-- I understand you fancy yourself a savvy investor... but your comprehension of how taxation affects business is pretty thin.

Wow, you've seen the American money go into the Chinese firms? What - you can shrink yourself and exist in the bank wiring system now? You don't make any sense, you were 'there' and what saw Americans coming in with parachutes and briefcases of cash?

Wow- what an astonishing ignorant reply...

I was involved in US industries investing in Chinese production. I spent time in CHina helping to set up factories.

I know precisely how much money the American company owner invested in company and private funds to set up these factories.

And I saw, in ONE little Chinese factory town, about 6,000 factories go up over 5 years... ALL paid for by corporate investors from Taiwan, Hong Kong, the US , Australia, etc.

I know in MY industry, this investment offshored 94% of its U.S. jobs.

The profits the industry makes on US sales are being spent in foreign countrie to spur foreign growth. NOT US growth.

About half the money is coming from personal tax windfalls voted in by republicans.


Oh, and BTW- after 8 years of investing in Chinese buildings and factories... this same industry went belly up. Owners sold out and retired. Or just declared bankruptcy and retired.

This doesn't characterize how the wealthy invest. Investors that chase profits and trends are uneducated investors and generally not wealthy at all.

You're an idiot. Most of the wealthy make money in stock trading... but they are not chasing profits, they are basing most of their buying and selling on INSIDER information.
Its why they golf with other CEOs.

You are speculating, they are not, because they know full well what the quarter after this is gonna look like on paper.

And serious business owners... like Gates or Jobs... DO chase profits and trends. Hell they CREATE the trends.


Starbucks Closed 600 outlets? Yeah- in the US
They opened 200 in China.
Corporations chase profits..
In five years time a village in China went from not having ONE consumer retail store to having nothing BUT retial sotres full of consumer good.
The residents went from mopeds- to the highest per capital car ownership in China.

The money of wealthy Americans who DO invest in new businesses, in job creation, is going to Asia because Asia is a GROWING market. The US is not.

Stand on any street corner within 300 miles of Hong Kong or Shanghai and look around you... know what you will see?
At least 50 construction cranes within 2 miles of where you stand.

Great for the investors... THEY will make money.

But don't give me that bumper sticker conservative hogwash about how it's GOOD for the people of the US.

Some of the money goes to make cheap goods for the US market..
but with each passing year, more and more of that money goes to making goods for the Asian market that shows double digit growth in consumer sales.

Our manufacturing sector has been shrinking. However, our service sector is growing.

Only if you count retail sales clerk as the "service sector". The Higher paying service jobs are going overseas..
Not just customer support...

Accounts management,
Billing,
Software coding,
Engineering design and support,

And if you want to know real economic pain- just wait until the only jobs in the US are being clerks at Walmart.

In Math it is called a convergent series.

When we don't PRODUCE we have a net loss of value, no matter what.
We have Walmart because its the only way Americans can afford to buy all the goods they need to buy to keep the economy rolling.

Except, of course that Walmart pay shit for staff. The folks who WORK there can't afford to buy walmart.

Without real wealth from Actual productivity ( labor resulting in goods) we become MORE dependent on cheaper goods thus sending more jobs offshore- which means lower paying service jobs for MOST people. which means we need cheaper goods.

Right now- the ONLY thing keeping America from circling the drain is Natural resources and food production. We sell coal, we sell timber, we sell minerals and grains.

The only OTHER source of increase in wealth is a growing Market... and our markets are pretty well fully grown.
ONLY immigration keeps our population growing... and that growth is the only real cause of increased wealth and increased GNP.


We COULD force investors and companies to put money into retooling US industry- we COULD seek real growth in pushing NEw industries like gree n energy and biotechnology...
but we have been plagued with conservatives who, if you are any indication, don't understand how economy works, and don't understand why the NAtion matters more than individual or corporate profit.

Don't get me wrong- you can make a LOT of money selling America down the river,

but your grandson won't be able to- because there won't be an America left.


This is why you profit firsters are not really patriotic.

You don't give a damn about the person next door and you honestly believe that the rich got rich because they "deserved it".

from wikipedia:
"It is generally agreed that the evaporation from pans has been decreasing for the past half century over many regions of the Earth. However, the significance of this negative trend, as regards terrestrial evaporation, is still somewhat controversial, and its implications for the global hydrologic cycle remain unclear. The controversy stems from the alternative views that these evaporative changes resulted, either from global radiative dimming, or from the complementary relationship between pan and terrestrial evaporation. Actually, these factors are not mutually exclusive but act concurrently."

great... get your knowledge from 3 minutes on Wikipedia...

Hers is the fact- the grounding of all air traffic over the US for two weeks after 9/11 offered the first substantive test of naysayers moaning about radiative dimming...
( btw - you can't have global warming be natural AND have radiative dimming- they are mutually exclusive- pick one)

What was found was that the pan evaporation rate immediately went up and solar radiance went up as well, in direct proportion to airliners' contribution to particulate pollution.

This finding explained why environmental models of Warming kept saying that warming should be WORSE than it has actually been.

Particulate pollution has been REDUCING solar contribution to warming.


That put us in a pickle- Water does not evaporate much from HEAT alone- Most evaporation is from direct sunlight literally Kicking water molecules into the air.

If we reduce particulate pollution ( fairly easy with rapid results ) we get MORE rainfall and fresh water- but global warming will kick into high gear.

If we allow particulate to continue to rise.. it will reduce global warming, but we will have widespread drought and thus famine.

its a sucky place to be in- burn or starve.

When environemntal models were corrected for the effect of particualtes, they became far more predictive of observation.

Thus- contrary to your 3 whole minutes of investigation into this...
Pan evaporation rate is a HUGE factor and its effect and causes have been porven.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

And Barack Voted 100% of the time with the Dems...How is that Change?

What? are you psychotic?


Democratic initiatives have been defeated by a republican majority or thru republican presidential veto.


With a democratic congress, a democratic president will be able to enact democratic initiatives.

That will be the first time that has happened in over 20 years.

Trust me - that will be as much change as our two party system is even capable of.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Except, of course that Walmart pay shit for staff. The folks who WORK there can't afford to buy walmart.

Without real wealth from Actual productivity ( labor resulting in goods) we become MORE dependent on cheaper goods thus sending more jobs offshore- which means lower paying service jobs for MOST people. which means we need cheaper goods.

Right now- the ONLY thing keeping America from circling the drain is Natural resources and food production. We sell coal, we sell timber, we sell minerals and grains.

The only OTHER source of increase in wealth is a growing Market... and our markets are pretty well fully grown.
ONLY immigration keeps our population growing... and that growth is the only real cause of increased wealth and increased GNP.


We COULD force investors and companies to put money into retooling US industry- we COULD seek real growth in pushing NEw industries like gree n energy and biotechnology...
but we have been plagued with conservatives who, if you are any indication, don't understand how economy works, and don't understand why the NAtion matters more than individual or corporate profit.

Don't get me wrong- you can make a LOT of money selling America down the river,

but your grandson won't be able to- because there won't be an America left.


This is why you profit firsters are not really patriotic.

You don't give a damn about the person next door and you honestly believe that the rich got rich because they "deserved it".




great... get your knowledge from 3 minutes on Wikipedia...

Hers is the fact- the grounding of all air traffic over the US for two weeks after 9/11 offered the first substantive test of naysayers moaning about radiative dimming...
( btw - you can't have global warming be natural AND have radiative dimming- they are mutually exclusive- pick one)

What was found was that the pan evaporation rate immediately went up and solar radiance went up as well, in direct proportion to airliners' contribution to particulate pollution.

This finding explained why environmental models of Warming kept saying that warming should be WORSE than it has actually been.

Particulate pollution has been REDUCING solar contribution to warming.


That put us in a pickle- Water does not evaporate much from HEAT alone- Most evaporation is from direct sunlight literally Kicking water molecules into the air.

If we reduce particulate pollution ( fairly easy with rapid results ) we get MORE rainfall and fresh water- but global warming will kick into high gear.

If we allow particulate to continue to rise.. it will reduce global warming, but we will have widespread drought and thus famine.

its a sucky place to be in- burn or starve.

When environemntal models were corrected for the effect of particualtes, they became far more predictive of observation.

Thus- contrary to your 3 whole minutes of investigation into this...
Pan evaporation rate is a HUGE factor and its effect and causes have been porven.

How can we compete globally in natural resources? Because we retain a great deal of natural resources. We can't compete in the manufacturing sector - we all know that. We can't shut out the rest of the world in the competitive manufacturing industry; our labor costs are way way too high. I don't want these people to be without jobs, but we can't compete. Our service sector is light years above any other country. Its time to digest that and quit whining.

This aint 1953 anymore. And the Wall Street gazillionaires on gone too. Its a new deal. Its time to stop bitching and pointing fingers and figure out a way to make this work.

 

[Notaguru2]

And Barack Voted 100% of the time with the Dems...How is that Change?

Actually, if you believe Trinity, Obama hasn't voted for anything other than the bridge to know where or simply voted, "present". How can he vote 100% of the time with Dems if he doesn't vote? Again, I'm just citing Trinity's position on Obama.