Meanwhile in Obamaland,, the Obama Bundlers

[Phil Ayesho]

Phil, when politicians know that voters will default back to "but the other dude is worse" at the ballot box or when donating, they have no reason to listen to any of their complaints. Politics is a leverage game. I think this was a pretty pointless symbolic gesture in the first place, but upwards of 80% of your post is about how bad the GOP sucks, and how retarded it would be to break ranks over something like this. This is a microcosm of the exact attitude that lets politicians get away with breaking promises that most swing voters don't know/care about.

Actually, your analysis is superficial... and you posit NO viable alternative.

No, Sorry... The GOP utterly RELIES upon the short attentions spans and ignorance of the average voter to get elected, since Conservatives are, IN FACT a Minority.

This is why the minute the GOP is in power, across the whole country, they immediately start passing laws and regulations intended to REDUCE the number of people who vote, with a bias against poorer voters....
And, today, 90% of the electorate is actually POORER than they were under Clinton.

So, Sorry, breaking ranks AGAINST the GOP is, at this point in history, tantamount to treason, since the GOP is actively undermining every aspect of a democracy, and government by and for the people.


I am not particularly happy with Obama, Nor the Democrats, for their actions, either... however, any intelligent assessment of the state of the nation is that thew GOP has made it clear that they are voting as a block to back the interests of only the most wealthy.

And, frankly, the biggest problem with Democrats is that they DO NOT vote as a block... and so have difficulty pressing any specific agenda.

However... here's the truth... Democrats do not vote as a block, because they do not all believe the exact same thing. They have a far wider range of positions on policy than do the GOP...
And, That means that the Democrats MORE ACCURATELY MIRROR THE WIDELY VARIED POLITICS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.


Further... only a moron could look at the past 10 years or even 25, and not readily correlate that GOP policies regarding trickle down, free market, Ayn Rand economics DO NOT WORK for anything but shifting ever more of the world's wealth into the hands of the very few at the top.

Income disparity has gotten dramatically worse, and the Western economic crisis is the direct result of western economies being SHIFTED, thru deregulation and offshoring, to be economies entirely dependent on DEBT.

By that I mean that banks are allowed to call LOANS... "products"... and the interest people pay gets chalked up as "economic growth"... But that is a trap because the only way to "grow" a debt oriented economy is to convince people that they can AFFORD ever growing amounts of debt.

That IS what the mortgage and credit card crisis really is... Banks being allowed to sell MORE debt than ever before... write loans that never would have been approved before, hand credit cards to folks who never would have qualified before...
With Politicians encouraging us to go out and "Spend"... they actually intend to get us to borrow more money so that our imaginary "productivity" will rise.

When In fact all that is growing is how far beyond our means we are living. and I do not mean government... I mean that freer Credit is a SCAM to MASK the fact that our earnings are NOT rising, that despite worldwide economic growth, WE here in the West are not getting ANY of that growth in our personal lives.

Keeping healthcare a private insurance deal is nothing more than allowing a middleman to tack 30% or more cost ON TOP of that actual cost of healthcare.

people need to wake up.

Voting Democratic is not the perfect solution.... But the only way to get the GOP to actually move away from its extremist agenda is to take it out of power ENTIRELY for at least 6 or 8 years,

I don't know that the democratic party can actually make enough change to fix this...

But the GOP has made it perfectly CLEAR that they have ZERO intention of doing anything but continuing with the same GOP policies that GOT us into this mess.
The same policies that were sold to the American people with slogans like "Free Market" and "Small Government"


I don't want a government that has no trouble spending trillions of dollars a year on a Military twice the size of ALL OTHER MILITARIES COMBINED, and yet is too strapped to help its own Citizens when a natural disaster strikes.
Or when they get old, sick.


Sorry folks... wake the fuck up.

Look around, Your mail comes in, and its ALWAYS a lot cheaper than UPS or FEDEX. Your sewer system works, your roads, and electric grids, you have cops on the street and an Army and Navy out there keeping you safe. Firemen come if you need them. And corporate "persons" are not just ALLOWED to fill the air with toxic pollutants that, only 30 years ago, made the skies over most US cities literally BROWN.

That is YOUR government. YOUR taxes... the taxes that "corporate persons" don't want to have to pay their fair share of, by threatening your jobs.

Your car is safer because the government MADE corporate persons act more responsibly.
Your food is safer because the Government forces corporate persons to TEST it and keep their facilities clean. Because the government won't ALLOW corporate persons to butcher Animals with Mad Cow disease....

All these regulations that corporate persons keep telling you are getting in the way of creating jobs? They are NO DIFFERENT than the laws that keep REAL persons from stealing from you or harming you.

Corporate persons swear no allegiance to this nation... and they want a world where Corporate persons have NO laws that restrict their conduct.


Well, frankly... I think its time to clarify that there is only ONE REASON why Real Persons should suffer a Corporate person to exist...

Corporations are ALLOWED to exist, and their owners ALLOWED to take a profit, insofar as, in doing so, they create viable and meaningful livelihoods for real persons.

that is the only criteria by which a corporation should be measured.
Does this corporation EMPLOY people? Do their employees earn a livable wage under humane working conditions? Are their actions beneficial or detrimental to the people and the economy of THIS nation?

WHat is the point of giving multinational corporations tax breaks so that they can take those savings overseas and create jobs THERE?

How does this largess on the part of our GOP party benefit the Real People of the US that they are sworn to represent? ( you know, the ones that actually are allowed to Vote)


Send a message to congress by kicking out EVERY GOP congressmen, until the GOP allows their members to vote their personal consciences.
Restore the Filibuster to its original, gotta stand and speechify the WHOLE TIME... so that it will stop being misused to stop congressional action.


And if the Democrats don't get the message and pass laws restoring the middle class... then next time, we kick all their sorry asses out, too.

 

[D_Miranda_Wrights]

Actually, your analysis is superficial... and you posit NO viable alternative.[...]

I read your post waiting for you to explain why it was superficial but you never did. What do you mean by "superficial"? It's a totally viable problem. Fact is, Obama knows that breaking certain pledges give him more benefit than harm. Why is that? Partisans like you have no reason to change their mind; high-education swing voters (all three of them) know that's how the game is played; and low-education swing voters are more likely to see the purchased ads than find out about the broken promise. Everyone here is acting rationally, and the outcome is that bad behavior is rewarded. It sucks, no?

Do I know a better alternative? I don't know of an obvious one...certainly not someone like you voting Republican. How do you feel about challenging your own party when it could damage them into letting the GOP be elected? (Maybe you think there's an alternative, since you seem to possibly want to kick both parties out at once in 2012?)

 

[Calboner]

Look around, Your mail comes in, and its ALWAYS a lot cheaper than UPS or FEDEX. Your sewer system works, your roads, and electric grids, you have cops on the street and an Army and Navy out there keeping you safe. Firemen come if you need them. And corporate "persons" are not just ALLOWED to fill the air with toxic pollutants that, only 30 years ago, made the skies over most US cities literally BROWN.

That is YOUR government. YOUR taxes... the taxes that "corporate persons" don't want to have to pay their fair share of, by threatening your jobs.

Perhaps you are unaware of the great benefits to be reaped from privatizing the police. Let Stephen Frye and Hugh Laurie show you:

A Bit of Fry and Laurie - Privatization of the Police Force - YouTube

 

[3664shaken]

Phil,

You haven't changed in years - still full of anger, hate and rage.

And you are still spitting out the same old lies that you were before.

since Conservatives are, IN FACT a Minority..

FALSE

Conservatives Continue to Outnumber Moderates in 2010
Conservatives Continue to Outnumber Moderates in 2010

however, any intelligent assessment of the state of the nation is that thew GOP has made it clear that they are voting as a block to back the interests of only the most wealthy.

FALSE

73% of all Billionaires are registered Democrats.

The only targeted tax break for billionaires was given by a Democratic President. Read all about here:

Amazon.com: Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich--and Cheat Everybody Else (9781591840695): David Cay Johnston: Books

frankly, the biggest problem with Democrats is that they DO NOT vote as a block... and so have difficulty pressing any specific agenda.

FALSE

The four congress's under Bush voted this way

90% of Democratic votes went strictly by party line
88% of Republican votes went strictly by party line

Democrat's were more likely to vote party line under Bush than Republicans.


The two congress under Obama voted this way

94% of Democratic votes went strictly by party line
86% of Republican votes went strictly by party line

The Democrats became MORE partisan under Obama while the Republicans became LESS Partisan.


Here are the facts broken down by individual congress

During Bush's terms in office

107th Congress 2001-2003

89% of Democrats Voted party line
84% of Republicans Voted party line

108th Congress 2003-2005

91% of Democrats Voted party line
94% of Republicans Voted party line

109th Congress 2005-2007

89% of Democrats Voted party line
89% of Republicans Voted party line

110th Congress 2007-2009

93% of Democrats Voted party line
83% of Republicans Voted party line

During Obama's term

111th Congress 2009-2001

94% of Democrats Voted party line
85% of Republicans Voted party line

112th Congress 2007-2009

94% of Democrats Voted party line
86% of Republicans Voted party line


112th Senate - U.S. Congress Votes Database - The Washington Post


Democrats have always been more partisan and tend to vote as a block because they do not represent a wide range of people. Remember the Gallop poll, liberals are the minority and that means that the Republicans MORE ACCURATELY MIRROR THE WIDELY VARIED POLITICS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

You sir have gotten the facts 100% bass ackwards.

I don't want a government that has no trouble spending trillions of dollars a year on a Military twice the size of ALL OTHER MILITARIES COMBINED, .

LMAO you just make this shit up.

Total Military personal

21,781,000 - Russian Federation
9,495,000 - Democratic People's Republic of Korea
8,691,500 - Republic of Korea
5,495,000 - Vietnam
4,768,407 - India
4,585,000 - People's Republic of China
3,833,000 - Iran
3,049,790 - United States of America

List of countries by number of troops - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry folks... wake the fuck up.

Yes everybody should and realize that when you make statements of fact they are usually incorrect. You spew forth BS and lies and then pontificate as if the BS that flies from your fingertips is somehow the truth.

Yes Phil, it's time for you to wake the fuck up or shut the hell up.

Oh btw, good to see you again :tongue:

 

[D_Miranda_Wrights]

FALSE

Conservatives Continue to Outnumber Moderates in 2010
Conservatives Continue to Outnumber Moderates in 2010

That makes 'em a plurality, but still a minority.

 

[Fuzzy_]

LMAO you just make this shit up.

Total Military personal

21,781,000 - Russian Federation
9,495,000 - Democratic People's Republic of Korea
8,691,500 - Republic of Korea
5,495,000 - Vietnam
4,768,407 - India
4,585,000 - People's Republic of China
3,833,000 - Iran
3,049,790 - United States of America

List of countries by number of troops - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Phil made no mention of "personal". He was likely referring to military spending. If this were the case, his claim would be true.

Defense Spending Budgets by Country

 

[B_enzia35]

You're a good person, shaken.

 

[AmiralMauth]

Look around, Your mail comes in, and its ALWAYS a lot cheaper than UPS or FEDEX.

The USPS has an explicit legal monopoly on delivering mail. It's also broke. We have no idea how much better, cheaper, or faster a privatized postal system would be, because such a thing is illegal.

That is YOUR government. YOUR taxes... the taxes that "corporate persons" don't want to have to pay their fair share of, by threatening your jobs.

The US corporate tax rate is 15 to 35%, plus state corporate taxes. And of course the employees of corporations must then pay taxes on their income.

Corporate persons swear no allegiance to this nation

I have never sworn allegiance to the United States (or any other nation, for that matter).

Although the US has historically been the most moral state in the world, I find myself unable to support the US government's actions more than once in a blue moon, particularly these days when the government is assassinating citizens, going to war without public or Congressional review, and further stifling economic and personal freedom with legislation.

Apart from that, American culture is miserable and pathetic. The only reason I can tolerate American culture from time to time is when I bear in mind that other cultures are often even worse.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Obama is far and away the worst president in 240 years. Lucky us. Anyone that votes again for him should seek help or get off welfare.

 

[StormfrontFL]

Obama is far and away the worst president in 240 years. Lucky us. Anyone that votes again for him should seek help or get off welfare.

Ah here comes Star with another shot at drive by idiocy

 

[MalakingTiti]

Obama is far and away the worst president in 240 years. Lucky us. Anyone that votes again for him should seek help or get off welfare.

I am very well off I am fortunate enough to say, and I will certainly be voting for him. Although I must admit that I am somewhat disappointed with him for not sticking to his guns, and compromising too much, its not as if there is a better alternative.

 

[AmiralMauth]

I would say that the supposedly level-headed people that form the majority of Pres. Obama's voters are compromising far too much if they're going to support someone who knowingly assassinates US citizens (something that Pres. Bush never dared to do), who supported the Patriot Act and FISA, who continued both of our increasingly stupid wars, who led us to a new war, who has deployed "military trainers" to another country that has nothing to do with us, who has continued the War on Drugs, who has failed to economically liberalize the US regulatory system, whose nationalist welfare ideas have failed to deliver on anything...

 

[Rikter8]

Obama is far and away the worst president in 240 years. Lucky us. Anyone that votes again for him should seek help or get off welfare.

Bullshit.

 

[Rikter8]

I would say that the supposedly level-headed people that form the majority of Pres. Obama's voters are compromising far too much if they're going to support someone who knowingly assassinates US citizens (something that Pres. Bush never dared to do)

Yea, nevermind how many troops were sent to the middle east for the last 8 years only to be sent to their deaths while the administration dialed back resources and left them high and dry.

Bush sent troops up a creek without a paddle and didn't blink an eye.
His Cowboy "Go get em" attitude cost many young servicemen and women their lives - and for what??
Meanwhile, back home he de-regulated the banks and allowed consumers to borrow more than they could afford knowing that they would default and his big banker buddies would RAKE IN THE MONEY!

It took Obama and his administration to focus in on what needed to be done and to take out the ring leader. That's right...a possibly one term president half way through his commitment took care of it.
Something Bush couldn't do in 8 years.

 

[B_chinagirl4u2]

I would say that the supposedly level-headed people that form the majority of Pres. Obama's voters are compromising far too much if they're going to support someone who knowingly assassinates US citizens (something that Pres. Bush never dared to do), who supported the Patriot Act and FISA, who continued both of our increasingly stupid wars, who led us to a new war, who has deployed "military trainers" to another country that has nothing to do with us, who has continued the War on Drugs, who has failed to economically liberalize the US regulatory system, whose nationalist welfare ideas have failed to deliver on anything...

and now all your soldiers, saliors, airman are coming to Asia..to make your next war

 

[AmiralMauth]

It took Obama and his administration to focus in on what needed to be done and to take out the ring leader. That's right...a possibly one term president half way through his commitment took care of it.
Something Bush couldn't do in 8 years.

To be frank, Pres. Obama was only able to take out OBL by staying the course and indeed ramping up the intensity of anti-terrorist operations and processes that found their birth during Pres. Bush's years.

I am not attempting to take credit from Pres. Obama and give it to Pres. Bush for the killing of OBL, but it is very, very hasty to credit the President with Operation Neptune Spear. The whole thing was developed several rungs under him, and of course the persons responsible for executing it had nothing to do with Pres. Obama. Pres. Obama just happened to be the chairman of the board, so to speak, when Neptune Spear went down.

All we can definitively credit him with is green-lighting the mission.

 

[deleted15807]

To be frank, Pres. Obama was only able to take out OBL by staying the course and indeed ramping up the intensity of anti-terrorist operations and processes that found their birth during Pres. Bush's years.

Awww it's so sweet to find a President Bush sympathizer. He was so misunderstood and underrated. It's too bad we can't afford him anymore. $3 trillion wars and all. I wonder how many cliffs he could have plunged us over if he were still in office.

 

[AmiralMauth]

Your response does not even address any of my claims.

 

[deleted15807]

It's so full of bullshit why bother? Anyone who thinks Michele Bachmann isn't dingbat crazy is really already gone.

 

[AmiralMauth]

I am not sure what there is to gain through discussion if you are not interested in confronting my points.