Medical Bills Driving Most Middle-Class Bankruptcies

Discussion in 'Politics' started by javyn, Jun 4, 2009.

  1. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    Medical Bills Driving Most Middle-Class Bankruptcies - Forbes.com

    Truly frightening. Taking my uninsured gf (her employer pulled her insurance due to the economic downturn) to the emergency room last week sure as hell bankrupted me.

    edit: Star, please feel free to take this as an opportunity to spin and demonize the poor and working class like a good Republican should.
     
    #1 javyn, Jun 4, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009
  2. Phil Ayesho

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    note that the study found MOST of those bankrupted HAD private health insurance.

    Proof that privatized health insurance is no protection...

    Just a mean of sucking every last dollar out of the pockets of the middle class before they can pass on any accrued wealth to their children...

    That's how you keep the middle class poor and chianed to their workstations...
     
  3. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    Thing they don't realize is, once those middle class become poor, you have a whole new wave of socialists and class warriors.
     
  4. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for somebody to explain to me how we are going to pay for this.

    I'm all for it; but where are the funds coming from?

    Medical bills are ridiculously high; the cost of treatments are rising every day. People that have insurance are filing b/k.

    How are we going to pay for the costs of tens of millions of more people?

    Not saying they don't deserve it, just confused at where the funds are coming from.
     
  5. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    Probably from a VAT. A shame it's coming to that, but I think it will.

    The thing that gets me, is we obviously could have paid for it before we went into Iraq.
     
  6. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Exactly.

    More to come on that; gotta run right now.
     
  7. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    Yep. And a VAT, especially one levied in ADDITION to the income tax rather than as a replacement will completely decimate the middle class, and force the poor into squalor.

    Then you'll REALLY have some socialists to deal with.

    Every single great stride made by the left in history has been made possible by the arrogance of the right.
     
  8. Phil Ayesho

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    THis has got to be the stupidest question of all time.

    How do you think we are paying for healthcare NOW?

    Seriously- Try hard to sit down and follow this thought all the way thru...
    Cause you have to be some kind of moron to imagine anyone is talking about ADDING an ADDITIONAL expense.

    pharmaceutical companies are charging us 5 times the amount that is profitable in every other country where they don't allow such usury...
    HMOs are making their investors rich by charging premiums, denying care and pocketing the difference.

    US productivity is falling due to people being unable to get medical care... and due to companies having to pay enormous benefits packages to provide healthcare... and guess the fuck what? the government STILL gets the bill for all the indigent and illegals and the aged...

    Health insurers deny coverage to anyone who looks like they might make a claim... this means the costs of our high technology healthcare system are being borne by a steadily SHRINKING number of actual issured...

    And guess what that means? RIIIIGHT premiums go UP because fewer people are sharing the risk.

    HMO's are paying money to convince right wing dolts that government managed care would be bad--- because they already know that medicare refuses to pay $18 for a single aspirin tablet. and because they know that the government would eliminate the single biggest unnecessary profit taker- namely- the HMOs...


    So here's the facts- eliminating the usurious profits taken by people who have nothing to do with providing actual care, and making ALL working americans pay for health insurance coverage, where NO ONE is denied means that the exact same healthcare will COST less and the risk be spread across far more insured...

    ERGO how much money we spend on healthcare will FALL.

    Get it? "How will we pay for it" is an imbecilic advertising jingle drummed into your heads by folks who are spending millions of dollars to try and convince you its a bad thing...
    where are they getting those millions to spend?

    The question is, what are we going to do with the EXTRA money most of us will have from being able to get more affordable health care?

    The question is, given the aging population and the fact that HALF of them can not get insurance- and that ALL of them will end up on medicare anyway, HOW CAN WE AFFORD TO KEEP PAYING FOR HEALTHCARE AS WE ARE NOW?


    The answer is simple... free markets ONLY drive down prices when the buyer can defer purchasing. If you need medical care you HAVE to buy it... you have a literal gun to your head... and in that kind of situation free markets always end up in price fixing and market manipulation... ( see ENRON- the recent Gas crisis and Water politics for examples )


    It is immoral to profit excessively from the suffering of others.

    nationalize healthcare now---

    Here's how easy it would be--- pass a law stating that insurers MUST offer health insurance and that they can not deny coverage to any applicant.

    And then sit back and watch as the health insurance corporations suddenly start spending money to push the agenda that EVERYONE has to have coverage...


    How will we pay for it... sheesh...


    That's like saying, wow- if we aren't gonna be able to ship by Fed Ex how are we gonna afford to pay for the same service at half the price from the Post Office?
     
  9. Phil Ayesho

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    PS- let me point out that insuring EVERYONE will NOT mean MORE people getting sick, ergo, more claims...


    Just cause folks HAVE healthcare doesn't mean they are gonna run out an break a leg or get cancer just for the fun going to the hospital...

    Fact- after healthcare reform the SAME NUMBER OF PEOPLE WILL BE GETTING SICK as we have right now.

    But the costs of those illnesses will be spread over a much large number of premium payers.

    Yes- the healthy paying the bills of those who fall ill...
    And if that sounds kinda socialistic to you... grow the fuck up

    -that is precisely what INSURANCE is. A Social Hedge fund spreading risk thru the population.
     
  10. D_Cleon W Ballbreath IV

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    How is it to be paid for, you ask.
    Luckily, the US isn't the first country bring up this question.
    It's the last industrialized country. Just look around the world and find out how England, Canada, Japan, Taiwan, or a host of other countries managed to provide universal health care.
     
  11. houtx48

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    COMPETITION and stop protecting the drug and insurance companies would be a good place to start in reducing the costs......... "I'm all for it; but where are the funds coming from?''..........stop paying for zippy's little war would also be a good place to start.....your turn
     
  12. Drifterwood

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    The Barber Surgeons don't merit over $250,000 a year. They're like the Mafia.
     
  13. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    You have lost your fucking mind, Phil.

    You are usually 'out there' but you have eclipsed your usual foolishness with this one.

    Yes, those without healthcare insurance presently will surely abuse the system. Those with healthcare already abuse the system. The claims are so extreme that both HMO's, PPO's and health insurance providers are losing money, and healthcare providers are so overwhelmedd with claims that they can't even collect on services rendered.

    Suddenly add in 30 million new parasites into the healthcare fray and watch as the problems grow exponentially in every facet; from billing to long waits to poorer service to lower pay for healthcare professionals.

    You don't magically allow a 20% increase in eligible healthcare recipients with no increase in facilities, medical personell, hospitals, doctor offices, etc. and make everything hunky dory.

    It will be a veritable disaster. And who is paying for all of this? You think money will fall out of the sky to service this giant contingency of people that demand medical attention.

    Wake up, Phil.

    Send me some of the shit you are smoking.
     
  14. seterwind

    seterwind New Member

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    .... Star did you know that the majority of homeless, ill, and people who don't have money go to the ER and don't pay their medical bill. So they get the service but no one gets paid. Now immagine, a system where these people who have no money go in get the service and the hospital gets paid for the service because they can claim a person. Suddenly the same services are being provided but the hospitals are actually making money.

    I have worked, and have tons of family that work in the medical field in the states. I'm now in Canada, no longer in the medical field because of my skills not being transferable without another 2 years of education. Let me assure you that Hospitals in the states are charging through the roof for service because they have to make up time lost for the thousands of patients they don't see a dime for.

    It's simple, if a hospital is guaranteed payment for all service provided, via the government. They will make more money. Where does that money come from, simple the government can guarantee a wage for a procedure at less then what they charge now. I know for a fact that a hospital would rather be paid for everyone they serve at a less rate, then charge what they're charging now.

    Where does the government get the money from? Simple all that money you are paying into you benefits plan, goes to the government. You'll notice nothing different from your pay check, almost no one would. It works, it works in Sweden, Canada needs serious work on it (too close to America which drains our Nurses and Doctors), and most other countries have no problem with it.

    As for
    It's not like they're not already tending to these people, they are, the hospital is just billing people who can't pay it anyway. That is the current problem people just don't seem to see which Phil pointed out. It's not like suddenly you'll need more staff, the staff are already working on the same problems, just with national health care, they'll at least be paid for their hard work.
     
  15. vince

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    You have to be pretty dense and unimaginative to be unable to see that what Phil has written is true. Either that, or a very stubborn right-wing ideologue.

    "30 million new parasites", pretty much sums up Star's attitude to his follow citizens. That, and "those with healthcare already abuse the system", says enough for me to understand where he is coming from.

    So people like my Mum, who falls over and breaks her hip, which Medi-Care pays a large portion of the cost to replace, is a parasite abusing the system. Fuck you too asshole.

    Use you head Star. You've got to take the profit based insurers, drug companies and middlemen, out of the equation. They are the "parasites". If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.
     
  16. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    I agree with most of what you say here. However, you are referring to hospital treatments (ER) in which they do not get paid anyway; and I believe it is over 50% of ER visits in which no payment is received.

    But the other areas of healthcare treatment are the ones that cannot handle the capacity (doctor's offices, etc.) of a huge influx of new patients.

    I am not talking about an elderly woman falling and breaking her hip. Of course that should be treated. I am referring to people bringing their children to the doctors office 3 days per week. People going to the doctors office 3 days per week, etc.
     
  17. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Let's not twist and turn, Vince. You know this isn't the scenario I'm referring to.

    I can't stand our system of healthcare. It absolutely sucks. From pharma to HMO's to long waits at doctor's offices.

    However, adding an entitlement to millions of illegals, drug dealers, and abusers of the welfare system is disheartening and will add significant problems to an already poor medical delivery system.

    When you liberals throw around numbers of how many people currently do not have insurance - keep in mind that many, many of those people simply choose not to purchase health insurance; it is not because they do not have access to it or cannot afford it.

    That said, I acknowledge that there are people that are truly deserving of health insurance but do not have it.
     
  18. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Bullshit. I take it you haven't had a job lately then, because it seems wherever I've worked everyone talks about having affordable health insurance at one time or another. It's the fact that they can't afford it that most people choose not to purchase it. Very few people "voluntarily" decide not to have health insurance, especially if they actually can afford it.
     
  19. jimcord

    jimcord Member

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    VinylBoy- true and not true at the same time. One issue that is often overlooked as explained by a friend in the insurance business is that many young people chose to overlook the need for insurance(it is certainly less expensive the younger you are) because of their youth and in general, lack of need for it because of the lower risks if majot health events at their age. The problem is that they have no insurance health care history as they grow older and it becomes harder and harder to get health care the older one gets and often many insurance carriers choose not to provide service to higher risk individuals and their increasing risks as they grow older. So unfortunately the choices one make when younger may comeback to haunt them later when they need insurance. So it is sometimes making a poor choice to not pay for coverage at all rather than they JUST can't afford it and creating their own health care dilemmas that we all end up having to pay for.
     
  20. D_Josephus Mortarforker

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    Ha Ha , Worlds Richest Country Is USA But the american has worst Healthcare support than 3 world , If you are an American You are the unfortunte Human in the USA ( unless you are millionaire)

    If you are making 8 or 10 $ an hour no health care for you , US Gov has quota to import Humans from 3world which is continuing ,
    Rather Bring Indians to USA han to Provide healthcare to Us Residents coz it saves billions of dollars ,

    Good news For you American ,You shall never see free health care in USA never never

    Sorry for my English ,
     
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