Men don`t cry.

[RideRocket]

I'll cry if I want to, and anybody who doesn't like it can fucking well turn his head.

You can cry if you want to cuz it's your party, and you would cry too if it happened to you.

 

[1kmb1]

Piss and tears are not emotions, but they are caused by emotions, in these examples. Please reason if you are going to diss emotion.

i didnt "diss" emotions.

reading through the posts, there seems to be this notion that tears = emotion.

There's nothing sexy about emotional constipation.

IT does NOT show that you're weak. It shows that you are human

Because it means that the guy is not in touch with his feelings and doesn't know himself very well

thats what i was addressing. (i was also making a joke)

 

[Calboner]

Your attitude is exactly what is fundamentally wrong with American males. As long as men and women like you have these backward and unaware ideas, we as a people will be the continual laughing stock of the planet. Manipulation has nothing to do with emotions unless the person is unconscious...like a child or a dissociative adult. being in touch with one's feelings doesn't mean acting out. It means knowing what is arising in your mental and emotional states in order to integrate yourself as a full human being.

Bullshit again. You have not answered my arguments, let alone showed that any of the claims that I advanced are "backward and unaware ideas." And I wonder what you take "my attitude" to be.

"Manipulation has nothing to do with emotions": This claim is so blatantly contrary to common experience that I have to wonder whether you actually mean what you say. How can manipulation have nothing to do with emotions? How do you think that people get manipulated if not through their emotions? And if you seriously think that people do not use their own emotions to manipulate others, I suspect that you live on a different planet from the one that I have lived on, or else that you have turned a blind eye to a very common phenomenon. But you qualify this negative claim in the next part of your sentence:

"Unless the person is unconscious...like a child or a dissociative adult." I was the one to introduce the example of the child, so we have no disagreement on the point that they are capable of using their emotions to manipulate others; but I wonder what you mean by "unconscious." Unconscious of what? Surely you don't mean unconscious simpliciter, like a person in a coma---hardly the normal condition of children. And I hardly think that manipulative behavior is characteristic of persons who are unconscious in that sense. In any case, I don't think that one has to look as far as persons suffering from dissociative disorders to find instances of people who use their emotions to manipulate others. It is behavior as common as rain.

"being in touch with one's feelings doesn't mean acting out." I didn't say it did; I rejected the phrase as silly jargon. "Acting out" is not much better: acting what out?

"It means knowing what is arising in your mental and emotional states in order to integrate yourself as a full human being." I suppose that you can give the phrase any meaning that you want, but what was at issue was simply, in Spoon_full_8's rhetorical question, "Why would anyone want to criticize a dude for not crying?" (post # 40). You replied: "Because it means that the guy is not in touch with his feelings and doesn't know himself very well. Not having the ability to cry might also mean that he doesn't care about other people, including his partner or his children." This provoked me not only by its phrasing but by its arrogant presumption. You know nothing of the sort about men who don't cry! You are in no position at all to make such an extravagant universal claim. A man's not crying may just as easily be out of consideration for others as out of lack of concern for them. You make the preposterous assumption that a man who does not cry is unaware of his feelings--as if the idea of having a feeling, being fully aware of it, and keeping it to oneself had never entered into your mind! You presume to know a priori that a man who controls his feelings does not know his feelings. Such assumptions are not just erroneous and implausible: they are obnoxious and presumptuous. That is what provkes me to cry "Bullshit!" at them.

And, by the way, Spoon_full_8 made explicit that he was not talking about a man who never cries, though you play the shabby rhetorical trick of responding as if that is what he meant. He wrote, in the post that you yourself quoted: "I'm not saying men should not cry ever. But they need a good reason to cry. What constitutes a good reason is open for discussion. . . . Yes, crying can be a sign of emotional health and healing. But NOT CRYING under duress can be a sign of health, courage, fortitude." You have not provided ANY reasons for doubting the justice of this claim. Instead, you have simply muddied the waters by making it look as if Spoon_full or I were claiming that men should never cry or some such nonsense and making outrageous generalizations about men who, on some occasion, don't cry. I find your dishonest tactics even more objectionable than your psychobabble.

Now maybe you're used to telling people to their face that their ideas are bullshit, to use your compassionate language, but that's not what I'm used to in intelligent conversation. To me you just proved your barbarian status, which seems to be more and more common on this site of late.

First of all, it is your claims rather than your ideas that I described as "bullshit." (I'm not sure if it even makes sense to describe an idea as bullshit.) That aside, discussion on the Internet is a very different thing from live conversation. As it happens, I do sometimes tell people to their faces that what they have said is bullshit if I am on sufficiently familiar terms with them and if what they have said strikes me as bullshit. But generally speaking, I don't talk with people who talk bullshit. On the Internet, I do; and I call them on it. I did consider striking out the term "bullshit" and just saying that you had made several erroneous or implausible claims. But the combination of presumption and dishonest tactics in your claims seemed to me, and still does seem to me, to merit stronger language.

 

[Calboner]

I assume that Luka was being a sneaky panda when he started this thread. Obviously men cry; but some have the belief that they shouldn't cry or that "real men" don't cry (Doogie888, Wallyj84), and some react against that silly idea with equally preposterous claims about the inherently disordered state of any man who doesn't cry (Hung Jon).

Bigloadz was, I think, the first in the thread to distinguish between crying in general and crying in public, noting that eschewing the latter doesn't rule out the former. When I noted that crying can be a means of manipulating the emotions of others (e.g., George Costanza to Jerry in Seinfeld: "It's like she was on fire and I just had to put her out!"), I was, obviously, speaking of crying in front of other people. (And, for the record, I did not say that crying in front of other people is emotional manipulation, only that it is sometimes so used.) But things get even more complicated when one recognizes that "in public" and "in front of other people" are not equivalent. As Joes1968 observed:

This is a topic I'm torn on both sides. It totally depends upon the situation and surroundings to me. At a movie theater, no, at home maybe a single tear. With someone you know well and something you're passionate about it's cool. With a tight bud when your discussing a lost friend or something deep, totally cool.

So it matters not only whether you are with others, but whom you are with.

There's nothing sexy about emotional constipation.

true, but emotional constipation is sexier than emotional diarrhea

Damn! I don't know which of those two I like better! I think both are true. I would note that neither principle presumes or implies anything about differences between the sexes.

 

[B_doogie888]

Doogie 888, I think talking about my vagina in the way you have is disrespectful to all women. Why would you use "vagina" as a negative word? Or "pussy" for that matter? Do you mean that vaginas are bad or terrible things?

PLEASE EXPLAIN!

I said nothing about "your" vagina. It is unbecoming of a man to act like a woman, hence I'll call him a fucking pussy or a crying vagina if he's going to act like one.

 

[MickeyLee]

this thread totally made me cry.
:cry:

ya big meanies *sniffle*

 

[dylz]

So crying over my brother's death makes me a worthless pussy?

Okay, thanks for that...

yup, and youre also "wallowing in your emotions." how selfish and unmanly of you i mean, common sense dictates that being upset is ok only if you dont show it... unless you are female, in which case it is always acceptable

 

[B_doogie888]

So crying over my brother's death makes me a worthless pussy?

Okay, thanks for that...

I can tell by how sensitive you come across in your reaction to my posts that you're either a bitch or a troll, but I'll bite.

There is nothing wrong with being upset about something. There is nothing wrong with feeling strong emotions like you're describing. But crying as a result of those emotions is a sign of weakness and is completely unnecessary and solves nothing. In fact, crying is an infectious action, so doing so will only throw salt on the wounds of others.

 

[Catharsis]

I don't intend to be a bitch, and I have no idea what a troll is supposed to be. I've seen other people use it in their posts, though.

I just think that if you were really close to a relative and you looked up to them, and then suddenly hear about their tragic death, that it would have been completely normal to cry. Then again, now that I think of it, I was 14 years old when he died, so I probably wouldn't have qualified as a "man" at the time.

 

[sodominsane]

I don't intend to be a bitch, and I have no idea what a troll is supposed to be. I've seen other people use it in their posts, though.

I just think that if you were really close to a relative and you looked up to them, and then suddenly hear about their tragic death, that it would have been completely normal to cry. Then again, now that I think of it, I was 14 years old when he died, so I probably wouldn't have qualified as a "man" at the time.

a troll is a person who comes on the internet forum to start pointless fights.....and insults another even if they dont believe nessisary in the opinions or insults they are flinging...in my opinion...............example.....hey a bought a 8830 harley sportster.......response....what couldnt afford a fatboy...so you had to settle for the girlster

 

[sodominsane]

Honestly, a guy who cries under any circumstance is just a huge vagina. I've cried only once in my adult life, and it was after watching Black Hawk Down, and I felt like a huge fucking pussy.

funny but i was in somolia with the 75 rangers (black halk down)...never cried a drop......alot of guys did and i wouldnt think they were pussies


in real life i stopped crying at the age of 9....my brother and i skipped school to go sleding. i smacked into a tree and got a bloody nose....i starte to cry and my older brother says "stop crying, moms not here to comfort you and if you tell her im sure you will get you ass beat....and i dont care at all" so stopped

havent cried a drop even during some real sad stuff......


however when i watch a movie ...ill tear up, even a comerical....it dont even have to be a good one............but nothing in real life will get it a drop.

i wish i could...seem like a sort of stress relief in times of trouble

 

[Gecko4lif]

Bullshit again. You have not answered my arguments, let alone showed that any of the claims that I advanced are "backward and unaware ideas." And I wonder what you take "my attitude" to be.

"Manipulation has nothing to do with emotions": This claim is so blatantly contrary to common experience that I have to wonder whether you actually mean what you say. How can manipulation have nothing to do with emotions? How do you think that people get manipulated if not through their emotions? And if you seriously think that people do not use their own emotions to manipulate others, I suspect that you live on a different planet from the one that I have lived on, or else that you have turned a blind eye to a very common phenomenon. But you qualify this negative claim in the next part of your sentence:

"Unless the person is unconscious...like a child or a dissociative adult." I was the one to introduce the example of the child, so we have no disagreement on the point that they are capable of using their emotions to manipulate others; but I wonder what you mean by "unconscious." Unconscious of what? Surely you don't mean unconscious simpliciter, like a person in a coma---hardly the normal condition of children. And I hardly think that manipulative behavior is characteristic of persons who are unconscious in that sense. In any case, I don't think that one has to look as far as persons suffering from dissociative disorders to find instances of people who use their emotions to manipulate others. It is behavior as common as rain.

"being in touch with one's feelings doesn't mean acting out." I didn't say it did; I rejected the phrase as silly jargon. "Acting out" is not much better: acting what out?

"It means knowing what is arising in your mental and emotional states in order to integrate yourself as a full human being." I suppose that you can give the phrase any meaning that you want, but what was at issue was simply, in Spoon_full_8's rhetorical question, "Why would anyone want to criticize a dude for not crying?" (post # 40). You replied: "Because it means that the guy is not in touch with his feelings and doesn't know himself very well. Not having the ability to cry might also mean that he doesn't care about other people, including his partner or his children." This provoked me not only by its phrasing but by its arrogant presumption. You know nothing of the sort about men who don't cry! You are in no position at all to make such an extravagant universal claim. A man's not crying may just as easily be out of consideration for others as out of lack of concern for them. You make the preposterous assumption that a man who does not cry is unaware of his feelings--as if the idea of having a feeling, being fully aware of it, and keeping it to oneself had never entered into your mind! You presume to know a priori that a man who controls his feelings does not know his feelings. Such assumptions are not just erroneous and implausible: they are obnoxious and presumptuous. That is what provkes me to cry "Bullshit!" at them.

And, by the way, Spoon_full_8 made explicit that he was not talking about a man who never cries, though you play the shabby rhetorical trick of responding as if that is what he meant. He wrote, in the post that you yourself quoted: "I'm not saying men should not cry ever. But they need a good reason to cry. What constitutes a good reason is open for discussion. . . . Yes, crying can be a sign of emotional health and healing. But NOT CRYING under duress can be a sign of health, courage, fortitude." You have not provided ANY reasons for doubting the justice of this claim. Instead, you have simply muddied the waters by making it look as if Spoon_full or I were claiming that men should never cry or some such nonsense and making outrageous generalizations about men who, on some occasion, don't cry. I find your dishonest tactics even more objectionable than your psychobabble.

First of all, it is your claims rather than your ideas that I described as "bullshit." (I'm not sure if it even makes sense to describe an idea as bullshit.) That aside, discussion on the Internet is a very different thing from live conversation. As it happens, I do sometimes tell people to their faces that what they have said is bullshit if I am on sufficiently familiar terms with them and if what they have said strikes me as bullshit. But generally speaking, I don't talk with people who talk bullshit. On the Internet, I do; and I call them on it. I did consider striking out the term "bullshit" and just saying that you had made several erroneous or implausible claims. But the combination of presumption and dishonest tactics in your claims seemed to me, and still does seem to me, to merit stronger language.

Cal you cant tell jon he is full of shit. He cries about it.

 

[luka82]

I assume that Luka was being a sneaky panda when he started this thread...

Luka just felt like crying.
But I didn`t.
And I don`t feel like being more of a man.

 

[AlteredEgo]

My brother doesn't cry in public. I told him my mother used to beat me for crying, and now I frequently can't cry when I need to. My brother said his mother beat him and his other siblings for crying too. He then said he doesn't cry publicly because he's from a part of town where weakness is death. He never risks looking soft. He's not inclined to let his woman see him cry either. But he does cry.

My husband will cry in a dark movie theater. He will also cry during the national anthem. Other than that, he does not cry in public. Come to think of it, I have only ever seen him cry during soppy movies and the national anthem. Oh, and during panic attacks, but he is no longer prone to those.

 

[Zayne]

There is a certain woman who wants to see a man cry in front of her? There are some issues there with that woman that I am not interested in correcting.

 

[AlteredEgo]

women tell you, and spread the lie, that they want men to cry and be emotionally open in front of them for one reason, and one reason only:

they want the raison-sacked men to reveal themselves.

they want to know if you're the real deal or not, if you'll fall for the bait and reveal yourself as a pussy or if you're a real man

A man should never cry. Crying is for children. Women also shouldn't cry for the same reason.

this thread totally made me cry.
:cry:

ya big meanies *sniffle*

Yeah, but your 11" penis is made of rubber. It's going to be okay.

 

[AlteredEgo]

There is a certain woman who wants to see a man cry in front of her? There are some issues there with that woman that I am not interested in correcting.

I can't speak for any other woman, but I would hope that if my husband or brother wanted to cry, and I was present, that they would just do it and let me comfort them. Sometimes, when people go through hardship together it cements their bonds. I also would hate to think that I was considered an obstacle to their ability to soothe themselves, or release their emotions. At the same time, if they don't want to cry in front of me, that's cool too.

I asked my brother if he cried when our father died, and he said no. Then he added, "You didn't either. I watched you." I told him I cried over it many times years later, but he said he never did. He's just not a crier, and that's fine.

My husband's grandmother died late last year. Everyone around us and on the phone was in hysterics. I didn't know the woman. She wasn't even a person by the time I met her; she was just a shell with a scowl. After we spent a long time comforting his sister, I held him and asked if he wanted to cry. He made a sad face and said, "Nah, you met her. My real grandmother died a long time ago. I'm too used to her absence to cry about it. I'm glad that body gave up. She can rest."

Sometimes, when some women ask their men to trust them with their tears, it isn't so much a desire to see them cry, but a desire that they feel free and safe enough to cry when they need to.

 

[Mr. Snakey]

I am one who keeps emotions bottled up inside me. Not good i know. I always had a hard time crying. No matter how bad things were or upset i would get i couldn't cry. On October 30th 2010 my mother was killed in a car accident. I cried for days and even weeks. I still cry as it hits me out of the blue. It will take a very long time for me to get over this. To be frank i don't think i ever will. I shall never be the same. So please treasure your loved ones and give them a big hug and tell them you love them.

 

[g_whiz]

Nothing like socializing one gender to deny a normal range of human emotion (fear, sadness, empathy). Teaching boys that its unmasculine to cry only encourages more of them to channel their feelings of sadness into agression...or cope with their problems in unhealthy ways (depression, alcohol, suicide). Our culture does a fair share of damage pushing the "Boys don't cry" meme, in my view.

 

[AlteredEgo]

Is refusal to cry necessarily a denial of a range of emotion? I would argue that crying is merely one optional way to respond to an emotion or emotional situation. I would further insist that crying is never one's only option. I would also say that it is incredibly difficult to accomplish something useful and cry at the same time considering the degree to which crying can inhibit eyesight. This isn't to say that crying is or is not appropriate. However, isn't it sometimes appropriate to choose some other response and get things done?