Men / Woman Status

[ManlyBanisters]

the old stigmata's associated with women still remain.

I appreciate your points and your understanding. Thanks kov. But stigmata are wounds, sores or marks on the body that reflect the cruxifiction wounds of Christ. I think you meant stigma :smile:

 

[whatireallywant]

Utter bunk!

I get pleasure from sex whether I am ovulating or not - that is part of my biology too.

And my whole point above is that recreational sex is now a much more level playing field due to advanced birth control.

The tribal references you make are generic and unbacked by concrete evidence, and therefore nearly worthless. They are also, again, a function of culture not biology. You're argument is weak and your understanding of female sexuality is flawed.

QFT

 

[whatireallywant]

Looks like its just me and you CB, we might as well just hook up now and be done with it :wink:

Hey!! I want in too!!

Looks like MB and I are in as well! :smile:

 

[Tickled Pink]

I enjoy sex and will continue to have as much as I can when I can get it because it is my body and it is up to ME what I do with it.:smile:

 

[Drifterwood]

Excuse me Ladies - you can all fuck me as much and as hard you like.

And - where is this attitude that women are doing a guy a favour? Those who think this are clearly from the camp that women don't or shouldn't be enjoying sex.

It's all about control, everything else is an excuse or an apology for that control. Give me uncontrolable women anyday.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

I'm a strong woman, who knows what she wants and isn't ashamed of getting it.

There is a vicious double standard at work and women are sometimes the most vicious enforcers. Some people consider it their duty to enforce the status quo no matter how outmoded unworkable and invasive.

 

[LACJohn]

Seems to me this is a view thats been held by men almost exclusively.

Stop.

Take a deep breath.

Read the section I just quoted.

Now ask yourself: "Why do most men hold this view?"


Again, until you've been in the situation of a heterosexual male who wants sex, at least open your mind up to other people's perceptions, in this case, a great amount of a whole gender's perception.

I know you aren't willing to do that, from your obvious distaste towards my post, but if you take a second to understand what its like for a man wanting sex, you can't say my post was bullshit...at all.

 

[LACJohn]

Idon'tsee any difference ifit's a manorawomanand

So essentially you are eliminating gender from this whole mix? And by gender, I don't mean "gender roles" I mean male and female in their ENTIRETY.

Doesn't that make this whole thread pointless?

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

Utter bunk!

I get pleasure from sex whether I am ovulating or not - that is part of my biology too.

And my whole point above is that recreational sex is now a much more level playing field due to advanced birth control.

The tribal references you make are generic and unbacked by concrete evidence, and therefore nearly worthless. They are also, again, a function of culture not biology. You're argument is weak and your understanding of female sexuality is flawed.

I don't bother with references. You are so closed minded and of limited wit they would not be helpful.

I have an undergrad and grad degree in biological sciences so i think I can comment on this. What do you have?

Let me help you. The fact that recreational sex no longer will lead to reproduction does not remove women from their genetics, genetics forged over 200000 years. The number of women who can have completely free emotionally detached recreational sex is rather small. This is one of the more sexually liberated sites around and yet the over riding thought from most but not all of the women here is they need to feel some emotional connection before they commit to having sex.

A woman, 45000 year ago who fucked anyone and bonded with no one, and then got pregnant, likely died. Her genes wiped from the earth. Where do you think the emotions of jealousy, love, affection spring from? Do you think those emotions are cultural? No fucking way. They spring from the need to favor a social structure that protects the female egg and her child. We have a very long childhood, and our children are not self sufficient for YEARS, not months like deer or salmon or birds. By making sex feel good it supports a pair bond and protection for this helpless infant. Your anecdotal story about ovulating means nothing. Sex feels good to you as a support to remaining in a pair bond with the father of your child. Thats it, nothing else.

Why do you think such elaborate ceremonies for wedding have evolved in such geographically diverse human communities? Its the social community supporting a male/female pair bond that worked to insure better survival of the offspring of such a pair bond.

A woman who runs around fucking anyone will likely be seen as a skank by the community as a whole for years into the future. That behavior simply does not support the society as a whole and its in our genes. Hell we can see it being played out now, as more and more children are being born without a committed father and those kids are pretty much doomed to be second class citizens, behind in education, money, and everything else. And save me the anecdotal stories of single moms raising terrific well adjusted well prepared kids. It surely happens on occasion but the stats are so overwhelming skewed to show that kid of 2 committed parents hugely out perform fatherless kids thats it not even close.

BTW Miss Smartypants, if you think sexuality is cultural you better tell every gay man here the fundamentalists are right, that gayness can be *reconditioned* into being straight. Of course thats nonsense but your examples clearly seem to favor the fundamentalist nonsense that gayness is a choice. How do you answer that?

Clearly I understand female sexuality way better than you. If you need more help understanding why things re the way they are I will be happy to help you.

 

[LACJohn]

The number of women who can have completely free emotionally detached recreational sex is rather small. This is one of the more sexually liberated sites around and yet the over riding thought from most but not all of the women here is they need to feel some emotional connection before they commit to having sex.

And that is the epic contradiction for women on this site. Cigarbabe feels that there is no difference whether it is a male or female, yet a HUGE majority of females require an emotional connection before sex, while men don't need it at all.

At least I don't.

Great post man.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

I completely agree that some, maybe most women need it, the fact remains that some don't, and while probably in the minority, we should not have to suffer being labelled for it. We don't go labelling others for not being able to appreciate the wonder of a good hard fuck without the need for a relationship.

You are sorta missing the point. It SHOULD be OK to fuck w/o regard anyone you want, but its virtually impossible to expect society, which is rooted in thousands of years of genetics, to simply accept it.
Deep down its against all that our genes tell us. you will just have to live with the whispering and the recrimination behind your back. I would not stop fucking tho

 

[koval]

I don't bother with references. You are so closed minded and of limited wit they would not be helpful.

No offence but by not bothering with references it shows that You are closed minded.

I have an undergrad and grad degree in biological sciences so i think I can comment on this. What do you have?

Just because you have a grad degree in biological sciences does not make you an expert on the subject. Try Socio/Economic studies as a factor to determine the upbringing of an offspring.

Why do you think such elaborate ceremonies for wedding have evolved in such geographically diverse human communities? Its the social community supporting a male/female pair bond that worked to insure better survival of the offspring of such a pair bond.

In the past it may have been to support pair bonding, but now a days elaborate ceremonies are basically a show of wealth to others and as such it has no affect on survival of the offspring.

Hell we can see it being played out now, as more and more children are being born without a committed father and those kids are pretty much doomed to be second class citizens, behind in education, money, and everything else. And save me the anecdotal stories of single moms raising terrific well adjusted well prepared kids. It surely happens on occasion but the stats are so overwhelming skewed to show that kid of 2 committed parents hugely out perform fatherless kids thats it not even close.

Strange that you don't mention the dead beat dads who walk out of a relationship after getting a woman pregnant? Let alone say a widow who has lost their spouse? Women can raise terrific kids without a father.

Example: two families across the road from me as I type (1. male/female parent & 2. single female parent). Both have kids within same age bracket (18-23), one is studying to become a doctor the other is in prison for robbery & GBH. Can you guess which family raised which kid? (both kids are male)

Clearly I understand female sexuality way better than you. If you need more help understanding why things re the way they are I will be happy to help you.

You mean you used to be one?

 

[Drifterwood]

WGC - can you tell me what evidence you have to suppose that the survival strategy employed pre history (ie pre 6000 BC) was the same as the one imposed today under the mantra that marriage is ordained by god? As far as I am aware, other primates have very different genetic survival systems, even though they face similar conditions to our own ancestors.

 

[Tickled Pink]

*raises hand* *jumps up and down* I'm here, I'm here :biggrin1:

oo oo oo me too me too me me me!!!!!!!:biggrin1:

*jumps up and down giving herself a black eye in the process*

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

WGC - can you tell me what evidence you have to suppose that the survival strategy employed pre history (ie pre 6000 BC) was the same as the one imposed today under the mantra that marriage is ordained by god? As far as I am aware, other primates have very different genetic survival systems, even though they face similar conditions to our own ancestors.

Evolutionary psychology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

God has nothing to do with it. The marriage ideal has been co opted by religion but religion has zilch to do with it.

 

[Drifterwood]

There is no discussion in that article that supports your views WGC.

You are imposing your learnt adaptations and cultural enforcement on previous situations, whilst there exist alternative and evolutionarily more successful strategies for those conditions.

Of course this is predominantly theoretical.

I agree. God has nothing to do with it, but man made religions have imposed their will upon our behaviour, thus becoming for some an important cultural more. Around the world in different cultures and at different times, there exist many many varieties of "marriage" agreement. The one in the West is falling to pieces.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

I don't bother with references. You are so closed minded and of limited wit they would not be helpful.

I have an undergrad and grad degree in biological sciences so i think I can comment on this. What do you have?

A uterus, a clitorus, ovaries, about the right amount of estrogen and progesterone and a dash of testosterone.

Oh and 6 years of university education in various fields, some scientific, some not, a keen mind, an ability to see view points that differ from my own, an interest in sexual athropology and great set of tits. :smile:

Let me help you. The fact that recreational sex no longer will lead to reproduction does not remove women from their genetics, genetics forged over 200000 years. The number of women who can have completely free emotionally detached recreational sex is rather small. This is one of the more sexually liberated sites around and yet the over riding thought from most but not all of the women here is they need to feel some emotional connection before they commit to having sex.

A woman, 45000 year ago who fucked anyone and bonded with no one, and then got pregnant, likely died. Her genes wiped from the earth. Where do you think the emotions of jealousy, love, affection spring from? Do you think those emotions are cultural? No fucking way. They spring from the need to favor a social structure that protects the female egg and her child. We have a very long childhood, and our children are not self sufficient for YEARS, not months like deer or salmon or birds. By making sex feel good it supports a pair bond and protection for this helpless infant. Your anecdotal story about ovulating means nothing. Sex feels good to you as a support to remaining in a pair bond with the father of your child. Thats it, nothing else.

Why do you think such elaborate ceremonies for wedding have evolved in such geographically diverse human communities? Its the social community supporting a male/female pair bond that worked to insure better survival of the offspring of such a pair bond.

A woman who runs around fucking anyone will likely be seen as a skank by the community as a whole for years into the future. That behavior simply does not support the society as a whole and its in our genes. Hell we can see it being played out now, as more and more children are being born without a committed father and those kids are pretty much doomed to be second class citizens, behind in education, money, and everything else. And save me the anecdotal stories of single moms raising terrific well adjusted well prepared kids. It surely happens on occasion but the stats are so overwhelming skewed to show that kid of 2 committed parents hugely out perform fatherless kids thats it not even close.

I understand why you have formed the views that you have, but I'm afraid your belief in them doesn't make them real. koval and Drifter have made some good points - I assume you have read them.

Further to that, and from personal experience, I did form emotional attachments with many of the guys I slept with casually when that was my habit. They were my friends in many cases. The sex was generally about mutual pleasure and there was never any pressure from either party to be exclusive - but there was an emotional bond. The guys I slept with with whom I did not have an emotional bond were, to me, more like dildos with a life support system - that may sound callous but I don't think they thought of the interaction in significantly different terms. Why am I telling you this? To illustrate that sex and sexuality are complex and varying. I also found sexual pleasure and bonding with my female friends.

I have a very strong opinion based on experience and observation (and some academic background in the studies of generative v's behaviourist theories) that nature and nurture are extremely hard to separate definitively as you are attempting to do. This is my opinion - it is open to discussion, as all opinions should be.

BTW Miss Smartypants, if you think sexuality is cultural you better tell every gay man here the fundamentalists are right, that gayness can be *reconditioned* into being straight. Of course thats nonsense but your examples clearly seem to favor the fundamentalist nonsense that gayness is a choice. How do you answer that?

Clearly I understand female sexuality way better than you. If you need more help understanding why things re the way they are I will be happy to help you.

I believe you would get a lot further on this board if you weren't so condescending. Be a bit more open to dialogue and a bit less authoritarian.

I don't think anyone's sexuality should be reconditioned in to anything. We are all vunerable to social reconditioning - we are made feel lesser or greater by what the 'group mind' appears to value. Do I think female sexuality is conditioned by social and cultural influence, yes. Do I think male sexuality is conditioned by social and cultural influences, yes. Do I think that differing levels of homosexuality and hetrosexuality are a part of that, yes. Do I state anywhere that I believe sexuality has no genetic influence, no. Do I express a pereference for any one type of behaviour, no.

What is more sexuality (what we enjoy, find pleasureable) and how we interact with our sexual partners are not the same thing.

 

[Not_Punny]

Let me add that human sexuality is probably one of the most flexible things on the planet. Look at the zillions of different cultures around the world and throughout history.

To say that there is ONE sociosexual structure that is the "right way" is about as keenly observant as a blind mole stuck in a black bog.

 

[Guy-jin]

It's a control issue.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

It's a control issue.

No shit, Sherlock!