Men's Rights Activists Vs Feminists

wallyj84

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Found this great video from Jubilee today of MRAs and feminists talking.

They had the incel from a previous video in the discussion and he of course made everything much more awkward than it needed to be. I think the Asian guy was the only man there looking to have an actual discussion.

What Do you guys think of this video?
 
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Sagittarius84

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Kind of an echo chamber honestly. I agree the asian guy seemed a lot more willing to learn and grow through this discussion than frankly, anybody else there.
First off to call oneself a "men's rights activist" implies a certain amount of ignorance that in of itself makes it hard to respect that person...and as demonstrated by specifically the "incel" there is bitterness, and an entitled attitude that should be a turn off to anyone.
But the feminists are not faultless here, yet again this refusal to admit or even venture that perhaps it is the interactions with women that motivate a lot of this masculine toxicity...its easy to say emotional vulnerability and the like aren't necessarily perceived as weak, but not as easy to delve into why perhaps such vulnerability isn't attractive to women until a long term relationship has already been established, or when it exists in the realm of the hypothetical.
This is one of those discussions I believe will go round and round until we all admit to our collective hominid capacity for selfishness, and privilege seeking.
 

Sagittarius84

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As unbearably gross as I found the incel, I think it notable he mentions being raised by a single mother(pertinent as there seemed to be a consensus that upbringing was a major factor in developing toxic masculinity), and that the emotional sensitivity and vulnerability imparted unto him by her was detrimental in his later interactions with girls and women, probably not helped by the fact he doesnt express the still held tenets of masculine attractiveness championed by women, whom derive such preferences from a patriarchal construct. So not surprising that of the 3 he was recieved the worst out of the tall european guy and the buff asian guy.
 
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rtg

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As unbearably gross as I found the incel, I think it notable he mentions being raised by a single mother(pertinent as there seemed to be a consensus that upbringing was a major factor in developing toxic masculinity), and that the emotional sensitivity and vulnerability imparted unto him by her was detrimental in his later interactions with girls and women, probably not helped by the fact he doesnt express the still held tenets of masculine attractiveness championed by women, whom derive such preferences from a patriarchal construct. So not surprising that of the 3 he was recieved the worst out of the tall european guy and the buff asian guy.
I don’t buy his argument that his single mother resulted in those toxic traits though. He sees sensitivity as a bad thing. It’s not. That is what is toxic. I’m sure he didn’t learn that from his mother. Being told to man up is toxic, but he thinks that’s what needs to be done to boys.

He could easily look better if he put some effort it. So I also don’t see that as an excuse. I also know plenty of women who do not care about looks so please do not generalise us. I didn’t find the other two guys attractive either but they were more tolerable due to how they acted...personality is much more important than looks.
 

Sagittarius84

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I don’t buy his argument that his single mother resulted in those toxic traits though. He sees sensitivity as a bad thing. It’s not. That is what is toxic. I’m sure he didn’t learn that from his mother. Being told to man up is toxic, but he thinks that’s what needs to be done to boys.

He could easily look better if he put some effort it. So I also don’t see that as an excuse. I also know plenty of women who do not care about looks so please do not generalise us. I didn’t find the other two guys attractive either but they were more tolerable due to how they acted...personality is much more important than looks.
Why dont you buy the argument? Im not saying she gave him lessons in how to be toxically masculine, just the opposite, I think instead she imparted some lessons in positive and vulnerable masculinity, and he found out relatively quickly these things were not valued nor sought after by girls and women(if not ridiculed as weak and unmanly) and in that resentment is where the toxicity sprung.
Its the paradox of the mommas boy, really; women will raise their boys to be positively masculine and emotionally open and vulnerable, knowing that the vast majority of girls, their past selves included, would have no romantic interest in such a boy.
 

Sagittarius84

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He could easily look better if he put some effort it. So I also don’t see that as an excuse. I also know plenty of women who do not care about looks so please do not generalise us.
Freudian slip maybe? I never said incel dude looked bad, just that he didn't possess the commonly held tenets of masculine attractiveness as determined by women's selectivity. Assuming looks dont matter what did you mean by "looking better" when there's no supposed baseline for looking good or looking bad.
 

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It’s an interesting video. I’ve gone to family court hundreds of times (protection system), and when fathers were available, they were definitely given an equal voice. Interestingly, more so from woman judges. But women judges are in fewer numbers than male judges. Male judges are far more ‘traditional’ in thinking than their female counterparts. Male judges were more likely to see fathers as an afterthought, while female judges wanted the fathers located and their input sought.
 
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It’s an interesting video. I’ve gone to family court hundreds of times (protection system), and when fathers were available, they were definitely given an equal voice. Interestingly, more so from woman judges. But women judges are in fewer numbers than male judges. Male judges are far more ‘traditional’ in thinking than their female counterparts. Male judges were more likely to see fathers as an afterthought, while female judges wanted the fathers located and their input sought.
What's your experience with women judges in family court when accusations or implications of molestation and domestic violence(as per the common prompting of any divorce lawyer representing a woman worth their salt) are present?
 

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What's your experience with women judges in family court when accusations or implications of molestation and domestic violence(as per the common prompting of any divorce lawyer representing a woman worth their salt) are present?
I was never in divorce court, only in protection. But I investigated tons of allegations made in those cases. Most were false, and we would submit our findings. The judge never overruled them.
 

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I was never in divorce court, only in protection. But I investigated tons of allegations made in those cases. Most were false, and we would submit our findings. The judge never overruled them.
Was there ever a consequence incurred for such false allegations?
 

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Good to know, rare to hear, but definitely good to know, and a powerful testimony to how feminist efforts for equality could benefit us all in the long run..
It depended on how far a woman was willing to manipulate the system and her children. No tolerance for that. Our province doesn’t tolerate that. It’s abusive.
 

Sagittarius84

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It depended on how far a woman was willing to manipulate the system and her children. No tolerance for that. Our province doesn’t tolerate that. It’s abusive.
Ohhh Canada, no wonder...yeah most states in America dont really give two fucks about the efforts women put into manipulating the system and their children as long as the state doesn't end up footing the bill. The state of MI allowed my grandmother to make crazy accusations about my father(not substatiated at all by my emotionally damaged mother[by said grandmother]), so much to the point he surrendered any and all custody to preserve any chance of maintaining contact with me. Once he ceded custody, she got it in full with no reprucussions
 

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Ohhh Canada, no wonder...yeah most states in America dont really give two fucks about the efforts women put into manipulating the system and their children as long as the state doesn't end up footing the bill. The state of MI allowed my grandmother to make crazy accusations about my father(not substatiated at all by my emotionally damaged mother[by said grandmother]), so much to the point he surrendered any and all custody to preserve any chance of maintaining contact with me. Once he ceded custody, she got it in full with no reprucussions
I can’t speak for other provinces, but we have pretty solid and progressive protection laws here. Using your kids as pawns is a good way to lose them.
 
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Sagittarius84

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I can’t speak for other provinces, but we have pretty solid and progressive protection laws here. Using your kids as pawns is a good way to lose them.
That's nice...we have VAWA, legislation that specifically names only women as victims and men as abusers, that was written by some old dude that can't keep his hands to himself while waxing poetic about how his sisters were allowed to beat up on him with no expectation of punishment nor violent defense...so you know, we've got a ways to go down here..lol
 

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That's nice...we have VAWA, legislation that specifically names only women as victims and men as abusers, that was written by some old dude that can't keep his hands to himself while waxing poetic about how his sisters were allowed to beat up on him with no expectation of punishment nor violent defense...so you know, we've got a ways to go down here..lol
Our laws don’t name a gender when it comes to domestic violence. Anyone can be a victim. I once helped a dad move out of his home because he was being abused. His wife was dangerous.
 

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Our laws don’t name a gender when it comes to domestic violence. Anyone can be a victim. I once helped a dad move out of his home because he was being abused. His wife was dangerous.
Not saying we dont have a ways to go when it comes to domestic violence against women down this way, but said violence against men is almost always considered justifiably reciprocal or a non issue..probably more unfortunate breeding conditions for "men's rights activists"