Michael Jackson; posthumous perspective

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by B_Stronzo, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    I am no great fan of pop music. I floated through the 80s only knowing of Jackson's success from a peripheral point of view. I recall once watching the Thriller video which was quite clever. But that's it.

    Yet I found Jackson immensely interesting as a human being. I found him interesting in his ability yes but more in his eccentricity. It made him profound to me. His music was listenable from my point of view. But I'm not beginning this thread to discuss his abilities as a performer and a musician.

    As I watch the early morning shows (now -I think sadly - eclipsing Farrah Fawcett's death) I'm interested in getting to the root of who he was as a man.

    Last night I met with about twenty of the guys with whom I work.

    Without a single exception they said "that perv got what he deserved" (or some version of that sentiment). When I voiced an entirely differing point of view the conversation came to an abrupt stop. I could see the venom shooting my way in the glances of my co-workers (several of whom I've known for nearly twenty years). My take was certainly not a popular one.

    Is it as simple as human stupidity? Or is it simpler for many to believe that Michael Jackson was what Americans love to deem a "paedophile"? Oh how so many love to apply that moniker to men whose sexuality is difficult to pinpoint! It grosses me out. The old "gay = paedophile" thing's in there. Not a question in my mind.

    And I'm left asking myself what really constitutes paedophilia.

    I never once considered him a sexual deviant in any way. And I paid strict attention during his trial.

    Additionally- that Martin Bashir did the hour-long tribute/exposé on Jackson on television last night made me livid. Bashir built his career on his eight month access to Jackson back in 2003 (and subsequent aired interview) when he was given full access to the man's life and existence.

    I recall the boy who eventually accused him of abuse lovingly placing his head on Jackson's shoulder. My how things change when dollar signs are seen.

    It was that Bashir interview which later brought about the charges of child abuse (from which he was eventually found innocent) from that thirteen year old opportunist and his mother.

    What never ceases to amaze me is the common mentality of needing to compartmentalize the other human being.

    I like that Jackson was an enigma. He was interesting in that. I love complexity and Michael Jackson never let us down in that way.

    I hate that I had to experience a group of predicatable heterosexual men basing their opinions on a tabloid press view of a very unusual and talented man. I didn't sleep much last night realizing that most people are just dying to tar and feather anyone who (in their view) deviates from the prescribed societal norm of the day. Horseshit I say.

    We're an odd species we humans.

    I hope Michael's found the peace now that he never experienced while on this earth those fifty years.

    He's certainly earned it.
     
    #1 B_Stronzo, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  2. D_Auric_Goldthinger

    D_Auric_Goldthinger Account Disabled

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    wow your the first person besides his fans who spoke the truth
     
  3. Nrets

    Nrets Member

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    It depends on the community. So much of America can be divided up into blue and red, and I believe there is a strong correlation between blue and red and like and dislike of Michael Jackson. That said, the song "I Want you Back" with him singing lead as a 10 year old in the Jackson 5 in 1969 is one of the most beautiful trancendental songs. From the most lavish neighborhood to the most downtrodden community there is no where where I could not blast some Jackson 5 and not have the surliest people dancing in the streets at least in their hearts. That is the power of Michael Jackson. Whether you like his packaging or not. I did not like his packaging music wise when he went solo...Thriller, beat it...not my cup of tea. But he was an amazing performer and that trancendental quality still carried with him. Even in his last days he would still light up from the energy of his fans...just like Freddy Mercury...The people who are bad-mouthing him simply do not understand...the same way American men who were threatened by Rudolph Valentino's unconventional masculinity in the 1920's could not understand. But time goes on and the effect they had on society is not lost.
     
  4. naughty

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    Workin' up a good pot of mad!
    Stronzo,

    Thank you. I couldnt have said it better. That so echoes my thoughts about Michael Jackson. To me Michael Jackson was a real life Willy Wonka.
     
  5. Xcuze

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    I don't remember Willy Wonka favouring cute boys and sharing a bed with them. Maybe you saw the uncensored version?
     
  6. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    Perhaps Xcuse the author thought the general public wasn't ready for the full unedited version.
     
  7. snobbes

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    Nice article Stronzo.
    Was MJ a dangerous pedophile ? In my opinion NO. Pedophilia is a sexual orientation and the key word is : SEXUAL. My feeling is that MJ never got to the stage in life where sexuality is an issue. Not saying he was mentaly retared or something, just that in some aspect his life was put on hold. I do believe he would see nothing wrong in having fun with "other children ", and I dont even think that the children considered him and adult person.
    To me it seems like his life was a strugle - mentally - apperance - interacting-... and so on, I do hope that death came as a relief .
     
  8. Xcuze

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    Perhaps Stronso should swap his shades for reading glasses?

    More appropriate and useful at your age, dear. :wink:
     
  9. Mem

    Mem
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    They are all dangerous (ironically one of MJ's album titles) Do I think that his sexuality was stunted and he did fool around sexually with children. Yes.
     
  10. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    That's Stronzo "dear".

    Don't be envious of my age. In time perhaps you too will gain perspective.

    "dear" is it?

    Okay. By "shades" do you mean blinders Xcuse?

    How, pray tell, would you know what was appropriate for anything age notwithstanding given your shallow vision of your fellow man?

    The term poor "Xcuse" comes immediately to mind.

    Okay now. We've both had our little back and forth.

    Let's not get petty shall we? I want topical responses "dear". Not the drivel of someone who appears to dislike the thread author for some unknown reason. :rolleyes:

    Thanks my friend.

    I'm truly interested in seeing who gets it and who doesn't. You, I'm happy to observe, fall into the former category.
     
    #10 B_Stronzo, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  11. Xcuze

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    Oh the irony. :rolleyes:

    Now I'll gladly leave you to making excuses for inappropriate behaviour towards young, impressionable boys. Would you extend this understanding to some grubby looking guy who lived at the end of your street and was inviting kids to a sleepover? Sharing his bed? I doubt it.

    Fact is, those kids were virtual strangers to him and should not even have been left in his sole presence for so long. Shame on their parents for being blinded by celebrity.
     
  12. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    One one hand, I want to feel no pity, I mean, he WAS a pedophile. Anyone who argues to the contrary is a blind fool, akin to arguing OJ was innocent. BUT, on the other hand, I do pity him because he was molested as a child himself. You know, cycle of abuse and all. Hopefully this cycle is broken with his children.
     
  13. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    I don't think he was a paedophile javyn and I'm not a fool.

    He was beaten as a child. To the best of my knowledge (I could be mistaken) he was never sexually molested.

    Thank you Alanis.



    The only thing that "impressed" that Bashir interview 'boy' was Jackson's wealth.


    I'd caution you not to predict what my response would be to that lil diatribe.

    Please give Dr. Phil my best.
     
    #13 B_Stronzo, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  14. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    He was a child prostitute; his father pimped him out.
     
  15. Xcuze

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    If anyone has a fucking clue what this means please PM me the translation.

    cheers.
     
  16. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    Come on. You can't just hurl that sort of thing out there without substantiation.

    Please, if you can find them, cite reliable sources javyn.

    I'd pm you but I dun vanna.

    Perhaps you're not an American.

    Dr. Phil and Oprah Winfrey are the king and queen of this nation. In their philosophies are the very key to the morality to which you refer by direct statement and inference.

    Hope that helps to one degree or another.
     
    #16 B_Stronzo, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  17. superbot

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    Who in all this was advising MJ over the years? Where was his family,friends record company people etc,who stood by while he made one disastrous blunder after the other? And how the hell does anyone lose that amount of money? Why did no alarm bells ring over all that surgery too? And above all why did no one sufficiently warn him to stay away from children, no matter how innocent, after that terrible 'first' allegation trial? The reason: Too many people depended on him financially to ever rock the boat!!!!... The entire entertainment industry STINKS!!...
     
  18. Xcuze

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    Said the man accusing young boys of being manipulating gold diggers. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Gillette

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    Willy Wonka's chocolate shop contained many unfortunate consequences to children accepting candy so the parallel seems fitting.

    Kinda scary that.
    Maybe there's no question in your mind because it's your belief that all hets feel that way. I'm hetero and I don't believe there's a correlation at all. I think the gender of the victim is incidental to the power trip and that the victim is chosen purely by opportunity.

    Jacko was hardly a balanced individual. What has been lost is a person who, if we're honest, was odd at best and quite possibly predatory at worst. There were two different accusations of child molestation ('93 & '03) and 20 million dollars of hush money paid out. Coupled with his bizarre behaviour and obsession with children over the years is it really a wonder that many believe the accusations were true if not merely the tip of the iceberg? It's not stupidity to see smoke and suspect a fire may accompany it.

    I don't see why a posthumous perspective should be any different than the perspective on one still living. Why does death deify the dead for some people?

    Will we be speaking reverently about Britney Spears should she pass early?

    I admit there are many Britney Spears songs I think are catchy and enjoy quite a lot. It's not like she wrote them, so I don't credit her for it. Nor will I ever confuse the music made with the person performing it.

    Micheal Jackson had a huge number of hit songs, precious few of which he wrote himself. Why elevate him to genius for singing someone else's work? Certainly the music was influential but how much of it was really his?

    He stabbed his dearest friend and mentor in the back when he knowingly outbid Paul McCartney for his own music catalogue. Pretty assholish manoeuvre, that. "Oh, He was naive. He didn't know it would upset Paul." Horse apples. When he did know why did he not offer to sell it back to him? It's a bit like adopting your children right out from under you...but he's done that in reality, too...

    He paid the nurse he married to sign away her parental rights to her children. Why?

    The man's behaviour was weird, reclusive, creepy and questionable. Neither the music or his untimely passing change that. I'm not celebrating his passing but I'm not going to celebrate him just because he has passed, either. Death doesn't whitewash his life.
     
  20. Gillette

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    Stronzo, don't expect to claim the moral high ground while you are deliberately changing the spelling of Xcuze's name in the heading of your quotes of him.

    Childish and petty spring to mind.
     
    #20 Gillette, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
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