Mike Nifong

[D_Martin van Burden]

There are plenty of web articles about Nifong's resignation as district attorney. The Wikipedia article about him gives a wonderful timeline regarding his handling of the Duke case.

I'm not going to defend his actions. He really stepped over the line, and disbarment is an appropriate punishment for his ethical transgressions. I don't really care what motivated him to do his behavior -- heh, that's a first for me -- but I understand and accept that he fell on the wrong side of error, and he really wanted to get after those boys. Okay, not wholly true, my indifference here. I read on Wikipedia that he was once a teacher and a social worker, so I can understand how he might have generated some bias against people of privilege throughout his professional career. In his earliest and probably most pure intentions of the case, he really wanted to look out for the welfare of that stripper woman. Who could blame him for that?

I'll tell you what, though. And maybe this is why I'm struggling a bit. I'm not particularly empathetic toward the lacrosse team either, and I suppose I've got some bias too. One article talked about the Seligman kid who didn't get to say his side of the story, and the press release specifically mentioned his family staying in a $450-a-night hotel while all of this cools down. Maybe that's my beef. I would think that someone who truly was run through the mud legally and professionally wouldn't exactly have that money to fall back on. I have a hard time believing that these kids will be scarred for life.

They're probably going to solicit other strippers, have sex with women functionally well. They're going to get jobs; so-and-so's father won't give two nickels. (Even better, they might generate some sympathy.) Their parents don't have a whole lot of profit to generate from pursuing a civil suit if you factor in the legal costs. They'll all continue to be rich and comfortable. Meanwhile, people who were accused of some real criminal shit and later freed years down the road (e.g. DNA evidence), they have next to nothing. Why should I really give a damn about these boys when, at the end of the day, they'll be just fine?

Am I really off my rocker here?

 

[SurferGirlCA]

Apples... oranges.

What has how much the family paid for their hotel when they traveled down to hear the sentencing of Nifong got to do with what is known in this case? What has what Nifong did earlier in his career and how that may have colored his worldview got to do with it, either? Apparently, the review board of his own profession decided it was true that he had DNA evidence in his possession that he knew exonerated all 3 of the guys, didn't turn it over to the defense, and even THEN went on to pursue indictments. Given that fact, I don't care if he spent his post-college years working for Mother Theresa in India, he's an embarassment to his profession and should be held responsible for his actions.

Are the poor more likely to get a raw deal when it comes to the legal system than a wealthy defendant? Absolutely. Does that make it any less an injustice if it's perpetrated against the well-to-do? I don't think so. If I didn't know better, I would think you're saying that since the accused came from upper-middle class families, it's not really that big a deal to accuse them of a rape they didn't commit. The last time I checked, it's not illegal to have money in this country... or even to be an elitist, arrogant pr*ck, if that's the subtext in your argument.

From what I've read, Mike Nifong completely disregarded the law and the oath of office he took in his prosecution of this case and he deserves everything he gets. To make matters worse, his actions in this case will also likely make it even more challenging for women (and yes, women of color) to come forward and be believed when they have a legitimate charge to level.

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

Not exactly, SurferGirl. We're in agreement about Nifong's errors. I don't condone what he did. I don't want you to confuse that.

"Not being empathetic" is my point beyond that. Yes, it's unfortunate that they had to weather all of this media attention; yes, it sucks to be charged with a crime that turns out to be not true.

My point, and a good part of my grief, is that these boys come from enough privilege that will enable more than a quick bounce-back. I imagine some people out there won't let it die, but they probably won't suffer from chronic unemployment, being subject to other favors of privilege, and maintaining their current levels of affluence. Maybe it's unfair that they get to do all that while people currently entangled in the legal system for the same reason just don't have it that easy.

I ended my post with the question, "Why should I really give a damn about these boys when, at the end of the day, they'll be just fine?" That's what I want to figure out.

 

[B_big dirigible]

Cheer up. They had to pay for their lawyers. Rather a lot, I suspect.

 

[SurferGirlCA]

I ended my post with the question, "Why should I really give a damn about these boys when, at the end of the day, they'll be just fine?" That's what I want to figure out.

If you assume money buys happiness, then maybe so. I don't. I think your assumption of their overall future well-being is a bit cavalier, to say the least. I'd bet if you were a friend or family member, you wouldn't be so quick to assume they have a "tra-la-la well that's over, when's the next cotillion?" outlook about what they've been through. I don't know them, obviously, and, if I did, I might not choose to hang around them, but that's not the point. I am just against illegally using the justice system for one's own personal goals and I am not willing to cede that it's "less wrong" if the people affected have money, which it seems to me is what your lack of concern implies.

 

[Skull Mason]

One of those kids is from my area. Yes the word is he is an arrogant prick just like I imagine a good number of the other lacrosse players are as well. I know them. He is also from a very well off family as many of these lacrosse players are. Just about every house in his town has a ribbon for him on it since he was first accused. Someone in town even attempted to raise money for his lawyers which some people found laughable because of his familys wealth.

These kids will be fine and I agree that I don't really give a fuck about them. If you treat people like shit for long enough it will come back around to you. Nifong is a fool. I could care less what happens to him too. Its amazing that these guys get so much attention when there are so many dudes locked up for something they didnt do and no one gives a fuck. But a couple rich whiteboys get accused and all hell breaks out.


As a side note, the star ledger in new jersey (newspaper) gave his younger brother 1st team all-state honors while he only scored 30 goals. Everyone else who made it scored at least 60 goals. Anything to sell a newspaper I guess.

 

[norvern]

Am I really off my rocker here?

No, not at all. The only tragedy here is that Nifong fucked everything up. It doesn't really matter whether those guys did it, because they represent a lot of other white, privileged kids who get away with this kind of shit all the time. Nifong was right to try to pin the rape on them, even if a rape didn't even happen. There's no way those kids should be allowed to continue their cushy lives without having someone take them down a notch, or even land their asses in jail for a few years. They deserve it, and they almost got it. Hopefully, other district attorneys will learn from Nifong's mistakes and figure out how to really close the deal on other privileged white boys, for the long haul.

 

[D_N Flay Table]

rawr!! cat fight on isle 4!

 

[B_big dirigible]

Nifong was right to try to pin the rape on them, even if a rape didn't even happen.

If this is a joke, you should put in some smilies.

 

[DC_DEEP]

If this is a joke, you should put in some smilies.

Looks like he didn't need smilies, bd. He didn't last long here.

If the articles I have read about this case were factual, then several who were involved in the prosecution should be held liable in criminal court. I have no special love for "boys of privilege," but I have even less love for corrupt, lying attorneys.

 

[YourAvgGuy]

I have no special love for "boys of privilege," but I have even less love for corrupt, lying attorneys.

White priviledge definitely is a considerable factor in this case, however, if the evidence did not point to these guys doing the crime they should have never been pinned with the blame for it. Speculation is one thing but accustation is entirely another. Either way, I just felt it wrong how the judicial process worked, irregardless of how these guys have lead their lives, their treatment of others, etc. Skull Mason, as you have mentioned, their time too will come...

As for Nifong, he was cocky, arrogant and knew better. He did a poor job in defending and honoring the integrity of the community and the state. His punishment was appropriate but should have been handled long before now.

And for the one who accussed. She has some blame, too. I feel that she should be penalized and punished, too for her part in the "scam." She is not innocent here, lest we forget.... (and please, don't give me shit for saying the obvious...)

 

[DC_DEEP]

<...>
As for Nifong, he was cocky, arrogant and knew better. He did a poor job in defending and honoring the integrity of the community and the state. His punishment was appropriate but should have been handled long before now.

Not to mention obstruction of justice by withholding evidence and lying to the judge.

And for the one who accussed. She has some blame, too. I feel that she should be penalized and punished, too for her part in the "scam." She is not innocent here, lest we forget.... (and please, don't give me shit for saying the obvious...)[/quote]That's the points I was trying to make in my previous post, YAG. I think that if she and the prosecutor conspired to fabricate testimony, they should both be assessed with the same penalties that would have applied to each of the accused, had they been found guilty. They should both do jail time, pay fines, and be publicly listed as sexual predators.

 

[YourAvgGuy]

[/quote]That's the points I was trying to make in my previous post, YAG. I think that if she and the prosecutor conspired to fabricate testimony, they should both be assessed with the same penalties that would have applied to each of the accused, had they been found guilty. They should both do jail time, pay fines, and be publicly listed as sexual predators.[/quote]

I could not agree with you more, my friend!

 

[3151]

White privilege is a factor? A WHITE attorney general tried to railroad three kids who were wrongly accused of rape? Do you think that just because they live in a fancy house it is easier to get thru something like this???

If a rich person is raped or mugged is it easier for them to recover? I don't think so.

If the races were reversed, and it was black kids being railroaded for the rape of a white woman that would be an OUTRAGE, but when it happens to white kids it is ok because they "deserve it," or "probably did someting wrong?"

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were right there with the woman who was claiming rape.. speaking out about the OUTRAGE that had occurred. They should be equally as outraged when white kids are wrongly accused as when black kids are.

I don't remember hearing Reverand Al apologizing to the white kids after it turned out that he story was not true.

 

[YourAvgGuy]

White privilege is a factor? A WHITE attorney general tried to railroad three kids who were wrongly accused of rape? Do you think that just because they live in a fancy house it is easier to get thru something like this???

If a rich person is raped or mugged is it easier for them to recover? I don't think so.

If the races were reversed, and it was black kids being railroaded for the rape of a white woman that would be an OUTRAGE, but when it happens to white kids it is ok because they "deserve it," or "probably did someting wrong?"

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were right there with the woman who was claiming rape.. speaking out about the OUTRAGE that had occurred. They should be equally as outraged when white kids are wrongly accused as when black kids are.

I don't remember hearing Reverand Al apologizing to the white kids after it turned out that he story was not true.

I suggest you do some fundamental research on white priviledge and then come back to make your argument. Secondly, re-read my post. I have stated here and in a previous thread that I totally disagreed with the treatment of these young men. What happened to them was unreasonable and unacceptable, regardless of their social-economic status, background, etc. I thought it was clear in how I articulated that here and in a previous thread. If not, let me BOLD to say IT WAS WRONG.

My sentiments about other things are just those... my sentiments. They were not alluded to here. Don't put words in my mouth. Research, learn and then debate your topic before you cast your stones. Glass walls shatter when rocks hit them, you know?!?!

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

That's the points I was trying to make in my previous post, YAG. I think that if she and the prosecutor conspired to fabricate testimony, they should both be assessed with the same penalties that would have applied to each of the accused, had they been found guilty. They should both do jail time, pay fines, and be publicly listed as sexual predators.

That's a huge "if." Those boys would be burdened to prove that the stripper intended to seek capital or inadvertent gain beyond what she would earn dancing. If she could be charged with blackmail (i.e. threatening to charge rape if the patrons didn't provide an exorbitant amount of money), that's one thing; if she can't, then your punishment wouldn't be any better.

And it's also the case that women who have really been raped often choose not to press charges or to recant a decision to do so throughout the legal process. Nifong's already going to get his, and the stripper women has her own hell to contend with in life.

 

[DC_DEEP]

White privilege is a factor? A WHITE attorney general tried to railroad three kids who were wrongly accused of rape? Do you think that just because they live in a fancy house it is easier to get thru something like this???

If a rich person is raped or mugged is it easier for them to recover? I don't think so.

If the races were reversed, and it was black kids being railroaded for the rape of a white woman that would be an OUTRAGE, but when it happens to white kids it is ok because they "deserve it," or "probably did someting wrong?"

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were right there with the woman who was claiming rape.. speaking out about the OUTRAGE that had occurred. They should be equally as outraged when white kids are wrongly accused as when black kids are.

I don't remember hearing Reverand Al apologizing to the white kids after it turned out that he story was not true.

Please, have those "issues" checked out by a professional. Please.

Did you even read any of these posts? Your rant sounds ridiculous. I don't give a flying butt-fuck about who is what race. When a prosecutor of any color does those sorts of things to defendants of any color, he is committing a felony, and should be treated accordingly. I don't give a flying cunt-fuck what color a plaintiff is, if she wrongly accuses anyone of any color of raping her, and perjures herself during testimony, she is committing a felony, and should be held accountable.

I suggest you do some fundamental research on white priviledge and then come back to make your argument. Secondly, re-read my post. I have stated here and in a previous thread that I totally disagreed with the treatment of these young men. What happened to them was unreasonable and unacceptable, regardless of their social-economic status, background, etc. I thought it was clear in how I articulated that here and in a previous thread. If not, let me BOLD to say IT WAS WRONG.

My sentiments about other things are just those... my sentiments. They were not alluded to here. Don't put words in my mouth. Research, learn and then debate your topic before you cast your stones. Glass walls shatter when rocks hit them, you know?!?!

<sigh>