Moderate republicans begin to rebel against staunch conservatives

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    The GOP "big tent" is growing smaller and smaller (only 21% of americans now identify as "republican" according to a new Washington Post poll, the lowest percentage in 25 years).

    Now watch. From the ABC News site:


    Exclusive: Utah's Republican Governor Warns GOP Leaders, "You Can't Just Say No"

    It's Time for Party to Advance Workable Alternatives Rather Than Block the Door, Gov. Says


    With the party reeling from Sen. Arlen Specter's defection, a prominent moderate Republican governor is warning that GOP leaders in Washington have failed to offer a positive alternative to President Obama's initiatives.
    "You can't just say no. You can't just obstruct or obfuscate," Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman said in an interview with ABC News. "Instead of just kind of grousing and complaining, it would do us all a whole lot of good if we actually started engaging directly in finding compromises and common ground and shared solutions"

    Huntsman is one of the most popular Republican governors in the country (winning re-election with 78% of the vote in Utah) and a possible candidate for president in 2012.


    "When you are devoid of the ideas, or the content that would allow you to articulate or paint a better future, you have no choice other than to fall back on 'no, we are not going support it, it cannot be done,'" Huntsman said.

    Exclusive: Utah's Republican Governor Warns GOP Leaders, "You Can't Just Say No" - ABC News

    -------------------

    Yesterday, moderate republican Olympia Snowe said: "Many Republicans feel alienated and disaffected from the party.... Ultimately, we're heading to having the smallest political tent in history. If the Republican Party fully intends to become a majority party in the future, it must move from the far right back toward the middle."



    There is now a discernable, irreconcilable split in the republican party it seems, with hardline conservatives, like Limbaugh, wanting nothing at all to do with "moderates" whom he reflexively calls "RINOS". There is now a litmus test for the "true conservative" (you must be pro-life, you must be against Obama's economic policies, among other things) and if you fail to meet the litmus test, or if you're a senator sufficiently moderate enough to wish to work across the congressional aisle, the "true" conservatives have a way of making you feel uncomfortable and unwelcome.

    And the chasm between the moderate republican and self-described "true" conservative grows deeper.


     
  2. Industrialsize

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    You've got to admit ,,,,,It's FUN to watch :cool:
     
  3. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Yesterday, on Capitol Hill, a nasty e-mail circulated among "true" conservatives - such as senators Kyl, DeMint and Coburn - as Arlen Specter announced his plans to run as a democrat.

    The e-mail read: "Swine Flew" (meaning the pig is flying to the opposite camp)
     
  4. houtx48

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    and to think this happened on zippy w. bush's watch too, is there no end to this mans talent? Male hookers all over D.C. are still hoping for a resurgence og the GOP.
     
  5. Flashy

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    i absolutely cannot wait till this happens to the Demcrats, which it will, inevitably, and the moderates who leave the GOP, will join the moderates who leave the Democrats and finally form a third party of moderate sensible folks, and leave the fringe left and fringe right where they belong...on the fringe.

    one can hope.

    with the idiots at Moveon.org and other "progressive" groups going after thoughtful moderate democrats for not supporting far left causes, it is only matter of time before the far left, like the far right, drives all rational moderates from the parties....and then, one day, hopefully, several years off, the only folks identifying with the Democrats and the Republicans will be the staunch ideologues, implacable, stubborn and stupid.

    oh joy...

    just remember you sweet kind liberals...*ALL* fringes, *EVENTUALLY* turn away the moderates in their camp once they begin to seize control...it is now happening on the far right, and, one day, it will happen to the far left...

    so, just remember when you have fun giggling watching the far right twist in the wind...your time on the far left is coming too...maybe not next year, or two years, but soon...it was not long ago that conservatives were in the ascendancy...drunk on unchecked power...and it led to their undoing...mark my words...the same will happen to the far left eventually...the will drive out their moderates too...and then we can all be happy watching the idiots on the far right and far left screaming at the top of their lungs, while the rest of us can happily go about ignoring them.

    Be careful celebrating...what goes around comes around...especially in politics.
     
  6. SilverTrain

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    There's like five people on the "far left". Not sure about the "far right", but whatever it is, the numbers seem to be dwindling.

    Most of us are in the middle. We may have different uniforms on, and spew a few knee-jerk responses particular to same, but it's mostly a big melting pot of moderate progessiveness.

    Anyone who claims otherwise is buying or selling something.
     
  7. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    I don't hear any prominent Communists spouting off about the benefits of Marx and Engels.
     
  8. Bbucko

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    I can't think of any prominent Communists in America, period :rolleyes:
     
  9. Flashy

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    cannot say i agree with you on that one, my friend. :smile:

    those "five people on the far left" are really not the case...for example, 77 members of the House Democrats, roughly, 30% of all democrats in the House, are members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus

    while, indeed the other two thirds may be more moderate, when fully 30% are aligned hard left, that is a very significant portion...that group is allied very closely with Moveon, Rainbow/Push and a whole host of other far lleft organizations, who are as dangerous as the far right hordes.

    it is the largest single group among the democrats. they are just like the 100 house member Republican Study Committee...

    dangerous. Extreme and highly partisan.

    the Congressional Progressive Congress holds 11 of the 20 House Chairmanships on the committees...they have a very large stake of control



    just remember, in 1980, the GOP was not dominated by the far right...look what happened there...didn't take long in political terms....the moderates have been gradually pushed out

    look at the republican senatorial composition in 1980 (pre-election) they were split between consevratives in the west and midwest, and liberals and moderates in the east and northeast

    Milton Young - He was 83 at the time...i think he slept through 1979 :smile:

    Strom Thurmond - Arch Conservative (and a total a-hole)

    Jacob Javits - Liberal-Moderate

    John Tower - Relatively Moderate/somewhat conservative (pissed off the conservatives *BIG TIME* supported Ford vs. Reagan and opposed them on abortion)
    Charles Percy - Liberal-Moderate

    Howard Baker - Moderate and a great consensus builder

    Mark Hatfield - Moderate (evangelical, but was very tolerant, and often went against Nixon and others, opposing IVetnam, etc. and was widely respected in both parties...they called him "Saint Mark")

    Ted Stevens - relatively moderate...(though a tad corrupt :smile: )

    Barry Goldwater - Conservative...however he was a *TRUE* conservative...he was pro-choice, pro civil liberties, against the religious right, and in 81 he said about the Religious Right (who he rightly felt were bullies) that he would "fight them every step of the way"

    look at what Godlwater said about the religious right:

    -the Republican party had been taken over by a "bunch of kooks"

    -"When you say "radical right" today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."

    -"Every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass."

    - "Everyone knows that gays have served honorably in the military since at least the time of Julius Caesar"

    - "You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight."

    - to the right wing, "Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have.


    ---

    Richard Schweicker - Moderate/Liberal

    Charles Mathias - Liberal (had massive battles with conservatives and even tried to derail Reagan by running an alternative campaign) massive enemy of the conservatives, Nixon, Thurmond etc.

    Bob Dole - Moderate/Conservative

    Henry Bellmon - Moderate

    Bob Packwood - Moderate, pro-choice, pro gun control, pro civil rights, voted against Bork and Clarence Thomas and three strikes you're out (though a bit too "hands on", some ladies say :biggrin1: )

    William Roth - Moderate...fiscal conservative, environmentalist, pro gun control, originated the IRA and it is named for him. (no not the northern irish guys who bomb things...the savings account) :smile:

    Lowell Weicker - Liberal...he helped defeat Reagan's school prayer bill, and Reagan hated hin and called him "a pompous, no good, fathead" LOL (he was ironically beated by Joe Lieberman with the help of conservatives.)

    Robert Stafford - Liberal/Moderate - passionate environmentalist, education (stafford student loans are named for him) and supporter of gay civil unions

    James McClure - conservative

    Jesse Helms - arch conservative (and total a-hole)

    Pete Domenici - conservative

    Paul Laxalt - conservative, Reagan's #1 supporter

    Jake Garn - conservative (but an outspoken advocate of civility in politics between the parties and the wings)

    John Danforth - moderate (even though he was an episcopalian priest, remarkably, he has fought major battles with the religious right, saying ""By a series of recent initiatives, Republicans have transformed our party into the political arm of conservative Christians...") this happens to be a BRILLIANT article he wrote in the NYTimes, which of course, caused the Far Right to flip...i happen to think it was tremendous

    Onward, Moderate Christian Soldiers - New York Times


    John Chaffee - Liberal, highly respected by all...voted against impeaching Clinton, pro -environment, pro choice, pro civil rights, pro gays in the military etc . pro gun control...Bill Clinton said ""John Chafee proved that politics can be an honorable profession,"


    S.I. Hayakawa - Conservative

    H John Heinz III - Moderate

    Richard Lugar - Moderate

    Orrin Hatch - Arch Conservative

    Harrison Schmitt - Conservative

    Malcolm Wallop - Conservative

    David Durenberger - Moderate (also denounced and disbarred and misused funds)

    Nancy Kassebaum - Liberal/Moderate

    Thad Cochran - Moderate/Conservative

    Rudy Boschwitz - Originally more moderate, then became more conservative and was a big George W. supporter.

    Alan Simpson - Moderate

    John Warner - Moderate

    William Cohen - Moderate

    William L. Armstrong - Arch-Conservative

    Larry Pressler - Moderate

    Roger Jespen - Arch Conservative (and total scumbag and idiot)

    Gordon J Humphrey - Very Conservative





    but Reagan brought 12 new senators on his coattails, many who were very conservative (not to mention, more importantly, since conservative is not that bad, but the more dangerous *Religious* conservatives)

    the far left is going to do the same to the democrats eventually....give it about 10 years. :cool:
     
  10. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    It already did happen to the Democrats, don't you remember Howard Dean's meltdown and the dissaray the party was in at that time?

    Now let's see if the Republicans rise above the same thing. I say they can't, because the ultimate Republican argument to authority is the bible, so there is no logic, reason, or compromise possible.

    How on earth can you compromise with a group that, by in large, thinks the world is only 8,000 years old and that dinosaur fossils were buried by the Jews to advance the theory of evolution? A group that supposedly is opposed to big government, but is more than happy to enlarge our government more than any other period in history, and merge it with multinational corporate interests?

    How can you compromise with a group that condones torture? Torture, probably the biggest advocacy of big government there is.

     
    #10 javyn, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  11. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    I don't think the Republican party is altogether "bad" and I believe in a two party system. Its future, though, lies with its moderates and its Megan McCains and the sooner they realize it, the better. Until then, as Indy says, it sure is fun to watch.
     
  12. houtx48

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    it will happen to the Democrats at some point the Republicans do not have the market cornered on nutcases. As soon as the Republicans kick the religious wankers out of power and move back to the middle idealogically they will be fine.
     
  13. Industrialsize

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    All that's left of the republican party are the regligious wankers and I don't think they are going to kick themselves out.
     
  14. houtx48

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    the thirst for power makes for strange bedfellows wankers or no and we are a two party system.
     
  15. Brandon801

    Brandon801 New Member

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    You Lefties fail to see that the majority of Americans.. and people in this world.. are "Conservative" by actions..not by SPEAK.. let us look at the possible definitions of both:
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Conservative [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Liberal[/FONT]


    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    1. Natural law
    2. Established institutions
    3. Liberty over equality
    4. Suspicion of power
    5. Exceptionalism
    6. Individualism
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    1. Positive law
    2. Progress
    3. Equality over liberty
    4. Benevolent government
    5. Human Perfectibility
    6. Community
    [/FONT]

    [/FONT]

    The bipartisan Battle ground pole confirm this.. read..

    The Battleground Poll is different. It is bipartisan. A Republican polling organization, the Terrance Group, and a Democrat polling organization, Lake Research Partners, collaborate in picking the questions, selecting the sample population, conducting the surveys, and analyzing the results

    [FONT=times new roman,times]In August 2008, Americans answered that question this way: (1) 20% of Americans considered themselves to be very conservative; (2) 40% of Americans considered themselves to be somewhat conservative; (3) 2% of Americans considered themselves to be moderate; (4) 27% of Americans considered themselves to be somewhat liberal; (5) 9% of Americans considered themselves to be very liberal; and (6) 3% of Americans did not know or refused to answer.[/FONT]

    Sixty percent of Americans considered themselves conservative. Does this mean that most Americans do not know what "conservative" means? No: The question specifically provides an out to people who are not sure about their ideology; it provides an out to people who want to be considered "moderate." Americans reject those choices. They overwhelmingly define themselves as "conservative." This is a huge political story - except that it is not "new" at all.
    [FONT=times new roman,times]The percentage of Americans who define themselves as "somewhat liberal" or "very liberal" has always been puny. In thirteen straight polls, this percentage has never been higher than 38% (June 2004) and it has usually been much lower. The gap between self-defined conservatives and self-defined liberals has been as high as thirty percentage points and as low as twenty-one percentage points. What does that translate into in electoral politics? If conservative presidential candidates simply got all the conservative votes - if virtually all moderate voters, uncommitted voters, and liberal voters went for the liberal candidate - then the conservative candidates would win a landslide bigger than Ronald Reagan in 1988. Have you ever wondered why liberals like Obama never call themselves liberals? Maybe their advisers have read the Battleground Poll internals. [/FONT]

    What the left fails to see is that even their MOUTHS are bigger than the right.. they will ALWAYS BE IN THE MINORITY.. and the few cannot speak for the many... And since the politics of our current administation are being formed by RADICAL EXTREMISTS.. I would be concerned about the future.. Did we ever dig deeper into William Ayes past?.. did anyone read what the Weatherman concept was for delaing with people that disagreed with them?.. (Read the FBI report).. enemies of the IDEALS.. were to be rounded up in camps.. and exterminated.. (Sound Familiar).. ACHTUNG.. wake up people... freedoms are being lost ever day here.. I have traveled Canada for 15 years.. cant say I met ONE PERSON who likes the socialized medicine.. NOT ONE... in fact the man who developed the sytem in Canada.. has recently retracted his opinion.. and touted.. " I was wrong.. dead wrong".. If we really want to immitate the social mess of Europe.. go ahead.. but the next election will show what the people think.. not this silly blogs.. and since when is PAYING TAXES unamerican.. ??? We were just fine before income tax.. and in fact the US Supreme court declared income tax "unconstitutional".. in 1895.. but if not for World War resurgence of taxation.. and following progressivism.. and greedy SPENDERS.. we are now stuck with it..

    I have no idea who is for HIGHER TAXES? MORE GOVERNMENT?..(because they know better how to spend our own money).. and MORE BUREAOCRACY?? oh these are good things.. oh.. maybe those that DONT PAY ANY TAXES.. want to gouge the so called rich.. but when you add socialism to the mix.. the people who produce in this fine nation.. have no incentive to produce.. so no more stones to get the blood from??.. without incentive to perform.. we become a country of couch potatoes.. when the poor rise up.. the country fails.. time to boost up everyone.. or all earnings potonetials.. and stop the CLASS WAREFARE that the left loves to continue..
     
    #15 Brandon801, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  16. Industrialsize

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    Your definitions are crap in my opinion. Where did you get them?
     
  17. Brandon801

    Brandon801 New Member

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    Does not matter.. is open for discussion... conservatives are not bible thumping extremists.. they are Compassionate, Hard Working, Tax Paying, Take Care of Family, Dont tell me what is good for me people.. they are individuals with brains.. who think hard work deserves reward.. and that doing bad things and not working should be punished.. they also believe that those who CANNOT work through disability .. should be taken care of.. they also believe that life is sacred.. simple rules to life .. most ..not all believe that they answer to a higher power and that our liberties were given to us by such... they also think the United States and the principals behind it, is an EXCEPTIONAL NATION.. not something we need to apologize for.. and YES.. dont blame the few morons for the whole..
     
  18. Industrialsize

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    and how would you describe a "liberal"?
     
  19. houtx48

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    don't blame the few morons for the whole..............that knife cuts both ways bucko
     
  20. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    The future of the Republican party probably includes the Megan McCains but does not rest on them. The left wants the Republican Party to compromise its conservative ideological foundation and assimilate. Resistance is futile? Borg Theory!

    There is nothing wrong with conservative values. Even if they diminish in popularity, your values are your values...you don't change them to suit somebody else. We are in the middle of a social culture war.

    I agree the Republican Party will shift more towards the middle (its been argued that the majority of Americans are Center Right), but the religious right isn't going anywhere.

    I tend to agree, but I wouldn't call them that...The Republican Party currently has 21% of party identifiers who are probably now compromised of the religious right. However, just because folks don't identify in a poll or register as a Republican doesn't mean that is the extent of the Party.

    There are more Independents than Democrats for a reason. In the Independent numbers are many former Republicans who have gone in between the two parties because of the damage to the Republican brand by the Bush years. That does not mean they have completely changed their ideology.
     
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