Moody warns of downgrade of US Credit

[TomCat84]

I agree that there hasn't been much compromise and the rhetoric has been reprehensible, but consider the repeal of DADT. In my opinion, that could not have happened without tacit approval from Rep. Boehner. Whether he traded something for it or felt that he had better items to spend his political capital on, he allowed DADT to come to a vote and he didn't instruct his Republican members to vote against it, although some clearly did -- maybe fearing the repercussions from their constituents if they didn't.

How magnanimous of him! Allowing something that had 70-80% support of the American people to pass the House! FWIW- DADT repeal passed when the Dems still had the majority.

 

[ColoradoGuy]

How magnanimous of him! Allowing something that had 70-80% support of the American people to pass the House! FWIW- DADT repeal passed when the Dems still had the majority.

You're correct; I'm expressed that wrong -- DADT is not representative because the Democrats still held the majority, I meant DADT was representative because I think Rep. Boehner had the power to procedurally defer it to the next Congress, but didn't stand in the way of it coming to a vote.

 

[TomCat84]

You're correct; I'm expressed that wrong -- DADT is not representative because the Democrats still held the majority, I meant DADT was representative because I think Rep. Boehner had the power to procedurally defer it to the next Congress, but didn't stand in the way of it coming to a vote.

No, he didn't. There's no way for the House minority to procedurally delay anything.

 

[ColoradoGuy]

Really? Maybe if we're nice to them, they'll compromise? Are you kidding me man? While they call liberals/Dems/progressives "socialists" "anti family" etc etc etc, we libs sit back and just be nice to them? You cannot be serious dude...

I am being serious and I am pretty sure I'm not being naive because one-upping the outrageous tone of public discourse is not a negotiating tool. I think this is exactly what our European friends were pointing out earlier in this very Thread: divisiveness doesn't make for good politics if the desired outcome is progress.

For the record, I do not think every Republican is 'bat-shit crazy' nor do I think every Republican proposal is 'bat-shit crazy'. I'm not calling you out TomCat84; I'm agreeing with you in principle because I'm sure there's more than a couple individuals and more than a couple proposals that are totally 'bat-shit crazy'. It's the absolutism that I think is counter-productive because absolutism precludes compromise. To make my point, let me introduce another European to the debate:

To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.

- Henri Poincaré, 1901

 

[ColoradoGuy]

No, he didn't. There's no way for the House minority to procedurally delay anything.

Hmmm... I think you're incorrect on that point. The minority can usually pull off something procedural. As evidence, I'll point to this article from 19 May outlining how the Senate minority has procedurally delayed President Obama's efforts to get Goodwin Liu appointed to the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. As further evidence, think about Wisconsin: the Democratic minority went AWOL which created a crisis for the Republican majority who then violated the open meetings rules to get the Union-crushing legislation passed that they wanted all along, only to have it overturned in court.

Minorities in legislative bodies don't wield much power, but they can throw a wrench in the works if they set their mind to it. Now, I don't know if that was the case regarding DADT repeal -- which might have been your point, but to say there's no way for the "House minority to procedurally delay anything" strikes me as an overreach.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

How did a post about Moody warning of a possible downgrade of debt become a total slam of one political party? A lot of what was posted was pure horse manure.
Both parties have been on a spending spree for decades. Neither side wants to cut their pet projects. People continue to yell the same tired, and at times stupid rhetoric. Yes, we need to stop being the world's policeman. Yes, we need to take care of helpless people. Something has got to give. The cost of entitlements is over 40% of the national budget, and quickly escalating. You don't have the right to live your life they way you want too, and expect the taxpayer to bail you out. Families need to suck it up, and start taking care of each other like they used too. I live what I preach. As of today, my dad has now received $70k that was mine. He has received a total of $210k that was supposed to be ours. It was money left to us by my mother's parents. He needs it to live on. I let him have the money. Do I do it because he was a great parent? No. He was a sorry piece of human crap. I do it because it is my responsibility to help take care of my family. The nation shouldn't be bankrupted to constantly bail out irresponsible people.
As far as the banking fiasco, both parties had a huge hand in it. Both parties received enormous amounts of campaign contributions from the banks. Both parties allowed irresponsible policies to continue well past when they should have been stopped. It is the pot, and the kettle.
The fact remains the the US debt level is unsustainable. If it is not brought under control, the country is going to face hyperinflation. The currency will be about as valuble as Civil War currency, and you'll be working nonstop to just put a meager meal on your table. The US will have to pay extremely high interest rates to get other countries to buy our debt. The interest will be financed through higher taxes placed upon the working man. As corporate taxes rise, more jobs will leave the country.
It will result in a downward spiral.
Economists are now predicting that in the next 5 years, China will become the largest economy in the world. The US will have neither the money nor the power to influence world events like we have for decades. We are already seeing the results in the world arena. We can do nothing about China's human rights violations, and we cannot do anything about their rapid modernization of their military. Our government can do nothing but stand back, and flap it's lips.
The only thing that will save us is if we return to what made us great. Take care of yourself, and your own family. Save money. Stay in school, and get a good education. Buy out of necessity not for entertainment. Make a good product here, and buy it. Stop blaming society for your alcoholism, and drug abuse. If you can't support children, stop having them. Grow a pair, and get some weight in them. Sheesh. Look how many people use tv to babysit their children. Then, they bring them junk food for meals. Quit taking the wuss easy way out. Grow up. Nobody owes you a damn thing. All you are owed are basic freedoms, and a chance to take care of yourself. You aren't owed a certain standard of living. When it all blows up, the government isn't going to give you that standard of living anymore. The government is slowly but surely taking control of your life by having you be dependent on them.
For those of you who have placed your trust in gold, get real. The government made it illegal to own gold before, and it will do it again. How do you think you'll get cash for gold bars?

 

[deleted15807]

Really? Maybe if we're nice to them, they'll compromise? Are you kidding me man? While they call liberals/Dems/progressives "socialists" "anti family" etc etc etc, we libs sit back and just be nice to them? You cannot be serious dude...

Exactly. The core of the Republican Party has no interest in compromise. And is is the wacko core are who is calling the shots. Compromise is for sissies. Can anyone forget Tom 'The Hammer' Delay?

 

[TomCat84]

Hmmm... I think you're incorrect on that point. The minority can usually pull off something procedural.

Minorities in legislative bodies don't wield much power, but they can throw a wrench in the works if they set their mind to it. Now, I don't know if that was the case regarding DADT repeal -- which might have been your point, but to say there's no way for the "House minority to procedurally delay anything" strikes me as an overreach.

Not in the case of the House. The House hasn't had something like a filibuster in a LONG time- since the 1850s, if I'm not mistaken. The GOP minority in the House would not have been able to do anything. You mentioned the Wisconsin legislature- I will remind you that Wisconsin is a separate state, with its own separate legislative rules. As per the US Constitution, a majority in each house constitutes a quorum- whereas Wisconsin law dictated something different. The Senate is different- they have the filibuster mechanism. Believe me when I say that the minority in the House is basically powerless to stop the majority from passing legislation.

 

[TomCat84]

How did a post about Moody warning of a possible downgrade of debt become a total slam of one political party?

Because, while one can make an argument about whether the Democratic Party is 100% serious about solving the deficit problem, one CANNOT make the argument that the two major parties are equal in degree of seriousness, or willingness to compromise on their principles.

The rest of your post is fantastically interesting, but I disagree with the results you reach. This country did not reach its height of greatness until AFTER the New Deal. You wax nostalgic about the good ole days, but fail to mention that millions of elderly were mired in poverty, workers were killed every day on the job, and people who could not afford medical care died. We do not fix our problems by destroying the social safety net. I love this country, and hope we do not default on our national debt...but I am NOT willing to let our politicians destroy Medicare/Medicaid just so they won't have to raise the top marginal tax rate by a few percentage points. The reality is, taxes WILL have to be raised. This country has too many issues that require investment of taxpayer money. I would rather my home state of California secede and take its huge economy with it then go back to the 1800s.

 

[deleted15807]

Exactly. The core of the Republican Party has no interest in compromise..............

Grammar check needed :tongue:

The core of the Republican Party has no interest in compromise. And it is the wacko core who are calling the shots. The Glenn Beck/Sarah Palin axis that can be counted on in large numbers to vote are angry little willfully ignorant people to whom compromise is unconditional surrender.

 

[ColoradoGuy]

Not in the case of the House. The House hasn't had something like a filibuster in a LONG time- since the 1850s, if I'm not mistaken. The GOP minority in the House would not have been able to do anything. You mentioned the Wisconsin legislature- I will remind you that Wisconsin is a separate state, with its own separate legislative rules. As per the US Constitution, a majority in each house constitutes a quorum- whereas Wisconsin law dictated something different. The Senate is different- they have the filibuster mechanism. Believe me when I say that the minority in the House is basically powerless to stop the majority from passing legislation.

Let's not go further down this rabbithole and obfuscate the opinion I expressed that the minority party is important and they are not powerless. I think any majority party who runs roughshod over a minority party is at risk for political, procedural and public backlash. Even if there weren't consequences to that type of behavior, the House 'passing legislation' is not synonymous with something becoming the law of the land.

I only said there a lot of things the minority can do to throw a wrench in the works and I stand by my original point that invited this back and forth between you and me: calling the Republican Party 'bat-shit crazy' is just silly. The OP wanted to incite political bickering over Moody's warning that they may downgrade the credit rating of the US. Everybody up until you pretty much resisted that. Maybe that's because I took the Thread off topic earlier when I stepped in to explain why some Americans have a hard time digesting some pro-European / anti-American opinions. I apologize for that, but I was trying to offer some perspective.

You joined our program already in progress and offered that Democrats 'give more' than Republicans do... I don't disagree that Democrats are better at compromise, but somebody has to show leadership and if the Democratic party has to lead there, so be it. However, when you turn around and dismiss Republicans as a whole with such a silly comment, you have to expect someone to give you a reality check. Surely, someone with as much education as you apparently have, understands the futility of making indefensible blanket statements.

I think we're both capable of higher quality discussions, so let's go back on topic. Is Moody's making an idle threat? Do you think the US bond market will be impacted by the news coverage of Moody's 'concern'?

 

[ColoradoGuy]

Here's the article, originally published on 2 June, from the NYT.

 

[lucky8]

Moody's lost it's ability to be taken seriously in 2008 when we all learned about the backdoor cocksucking going on there...if there were ratings companies for ratings companies, they'd be junk (although I'm sure Moody's would say they were investment grade) Who's paying them what this time around?

 

[deleted15807]

This is not the first time either Moody's has tangoed with the US:

Moody's May Cut US Rating on Tax Package

Ultimately they didn't and I think you will see the same thing here. Nothing to see here people. Go back to the mall and you SuperSize Coca-Cola's.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Moody's lost it's ability to be taken seriously in 2008 when we all learned about the backdoor cocksucking going on there...if there were ratings companies for ratings companies, they'd be junk (although I'm sure Moody's would say they were investment grade) Who's paying them what this time around?

Well, lucky, it isn't just Moody's.
What about S&P's warning in April?

 

[B_Marius567]

i need to start buying gold.

 

[ColoradoGuy]

Well, lucky, it isn't just Moody's.
What about S&P's warning in April?

A very good point, Hhuck... for those who missed what he's talking about, this article came out on 11 April 2010: S&P Lowers Its Outlook.

I get your drift about Moody's, lucky8, but it's a little bit like Sarah Palin: while you can discredit her intellect, authority and sincerity based on your own observations, you can't change the fact that she influences news outlets and public attitude. And, like Moody's, she has a very stalwart camp of supporters who will believe anything she says.

 

[B_Marius567]

govt borrows 40 cent per dollar it spends.

 

[deleted15807]

govt borrows 40 cent per dollar it spends.

And your point? Americans overwhemlingly approve of tax cuts and overwhelmingly dislike cuts in the big progams that consume the majority of the budget. So we have the government we deserve.