Moody's May Cut US Rating on Tax Package

[faceking]

So now the dominoes will finally begin to fall. Thirty years of tax cuts are the answer to world hunger, immigration, climate change, habitat loss, poverty,immigration, you name it tax cuts are the answer. Of course the true goal is to actually break the government and dismantle everything related to the New Deal. And this is just the tool to make it happen finally after 30 years. The Reagan tax cuts and the Bush tax cuts and the sea of red ink they created are finally coming home.

Moody's May Cut US Rating on Tax Package


Moody's warned Monday that it could move a step closer to cutting the U.S. Aaa rating if President Obama's tax and unemployment benefit package becomes law.

​

Ah it's all the GOPs fault and Moody's is using Obama as the 'straw' on the economic camel, per se.

Course your whole premise is under the folly of this being a revenue problem and not a spending one.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Hmmmmm... a pointless thread bump from the usual say-nothings. Seriously, why do they insist on doing this?

 

[B_New End]

The bad news is that if they are even whispering at a US ratings cut the position must be dire. This is a wake up call to the USA. If it doesn't make the nation's figures add up the ratings agencies will reflect the market worries and downgrade - and the cost of borrowing will go up, making problems even worse.

How convenient for the bankers. They make even more interest on the domicile tax herds of the United States. The money is still good. Americans can do little more than grumble and fight with each other as they give all their money to the bankers, while arguing with each other within a well manicured paradigm that convinces them we have to abide by this ludicrous banking system. So the higher interest rates are a ruse. Americans will pay their taxes even as they starve, as long as the TV keeps playing and telling them they are free to debate how best to be good little tax slaves.

Vote R for huge defense spending and bailouts for the rich!
Vote D for huge defense spending and bailouts for the rich!
You are all free!

Until we just go communist, and do exactly as fool's avatar suggests. Slit the banker's throats, and take their money. No more debts, no more problems. Viva la revelucion and all that.

Or we could default... or we could just end the fed and print our own money, interest free... like the constitution says we should.

But all that is too wild. So pay up, tax cows. The rich need more money. I mean, have you ever tried to pay off the mortgages of three mansions and a beach home in this economy? The rich are suffering, people.

 

[Speculator]

Until we just go communist, and do exactly as fool's avatar suggests. Slit the banker's throats, and take their money. No more debts, no more problems. Viva la revelucion and all that.

Are any of you peacenik bleeding heart lefties going to pull him up on this?

Change the word "banker" to "black, "jewish" or "immigrant" and you'll see how offensive New End's statement really is.

 

[B_New End]

Are any of you peacenik bleeding heart lefties going to pull him up on this?

Change the word "banker" to "black, "jewish" or "immigrant" and you'll see how offensive New End's statement really is.

It's hella offensive to imperialist swine. To the slaving masses of the world it is the language of freedom.

And blacks, Jews, and immigrants aint the ones trying to enslave the world into a never ending cycle of debt and taxes to pay debts. It's the god damn bankers, and the world is figuring it out!

And I wouldn't bank on lefties being peacenik... that's kind of an American right wing delusion based on the overall domestication of all Americans. All Americans are peacenik pussies afraid of violence, (unless its killing brown people overseas, then it's boner time). Problem with the right wingers, is they actually still love their little stupid system, some because they are rich, some because they imagine themselves rich, and some because they hope themselves rich. Either way, fighting back will only bring their precious little system closer to collapse. (Of course, continuing to be slaves to the bankers will too) It's a catch 22 for them.

And the rest of the world is plain getting sick of these stupid financiers' games and arrogance. Bloody revolution is a necessary fact of history, and just because we got cars and computers does not mean it is any less of a fact. You can only press human beings so much, and steal from them so often, before they snap, and when they do, its Bolshevik time, baby!

Allons enfants de la Patrie
Le jour de gloire est arrivé !
Contre nous de la tyrannie
L'étendard sanglant est levé
Entendez-vous dans nos campagnes
Mugir ces féroces soldats?
Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras.
Égorger vos fils, vos compagnes! (To cut the throats of your sons and consorts)
Aux armes citoyens
Formez vos bataillons
Marchons, marchons
Qu'un sang impur
Abreuve nos sillons




You sad ass riech wingers think that Tunisia et al is against Islamic dictators, it isn't, it's all about corruption and the banking system. You aren't going to be able to hold down this lid much longer.


Plus, I gave a peaceful solution, Printing our own money and disbanding the Fed. But something has got to give.

 

[maxcok]

If you believe this is the wisest course of action, then you're an even bigger idiot than I thought you were.

Hate speech, please cut it out.

I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you!!!

Now fuck off, troll! :fu:



p.s. NewEnd, did you really just post the lyric to La Marseillaise? Awesome.

 

[Speculator]

It's hella offensive to imperialist swine. To the slaving masses of the world it is the language of freedom.

And blacks, Jews, and immigrants aint the ones trying to enslave the world into a never ending cycle of debt and taxes to pay debts. It's the god damn bankers, and the world is figuring it out!

And I wouldn't bank on lefties being peacenik... that's kind of an American right wing delusion based on the overall domestication of all Americans. All Americans are peacenik pussies afraid of violence, (unless its killing brown people overseas, then it's boner time). Problem with the right wingers, is they actually still love their little stupid system, some because they are rich, some because they imagine themselves rich, and some because they hope themselves rich. Either way, fighting back will only bring their precious little system closer to collapse. (Of course, continuing to be slaves to the bankers will too) It's a catch 22 for them.

And the rest of the world is plain getting sick of these stupid financiers' games and arrogance. Bloody revolution is a necessary fact of history, and just because we got cars and computers does not mean it is any less of a fact. You can only press human beings so much, and steal from them so often, before they snap, and when they do, its Bolshevik time, baby!

Allons enfants de la Patrie
Le jour de gloire est arrivé !
Contre nous de la tyrannie
L'étendard sanglant est levé
Entendez-vous dans nos campagnes
Mugir ces féroces soldats?
Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras.
Égorger vos fils, vos compagnes! (To cut the throats of your sons and consorts)
Aux armes citoyens
Formez vos bataillons
Marchons, marchons
Qu'un sang impur
Abreuve nos sillons




You sad ass riech wingers think that Tunisia et al is against Islamic dictators, it isn't, it's all about corruption and the banking system. You aren't going to be able to hold down this lid much longer.


Plus, I gave a peaceful solution, Printing our own money and disbanding the Fed. But something has got to give.

You seriously need to seek help, I've read a lot of deranged drivel in my time but your violent rants genuinely convey the sense of someone that has lost their grip on reality.

Please go and speak to somebody before it's too late, you may end up doing something you regret.


P.S, yes the system is crooked, but you make it sound like you've uncovered a worldwide conspiracy. No offence but you're not privy to any special information, we all know we're being bent over and screwed by "the man" but there's no need to lose the plot over it. Lighten up a little.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Change the word "banker" to "black, "jewish" or "immigrant" and you'll see how offensive New End's statement really is.

"Banker" is not a protected social class by the constitution or any hate crime legislation. But to a greedy son of a bitch like you, I can see why you'd choose to act outraged here.

 

[Jason]

It is very easy to argue that responsiblity rests with the bankers. They have certainly acted badly, have made big profits from so acting, and in some cases have made more money through bailouts. We all hate the bankers.

But the bankers have been acting within regulatory frameworks set by our politicians. Both in the UK and the USA the frameworks have been set by politicians of both parties over a lot of years. The politicians have wanted the banks to make their wild profits to prop up the economies. Without the big bank profits neither the UK nor the USA could have afforded the goodies we all enjoyed a few years ago. The banks were allowed and encouraged by politicians to behave badly - so instead lets all blame the politicians.

But we live in democracies. We are the ones that elect politicians, and therefore the ones that influence politicians' views. In effect we've all said to our politicians "give us all the goodies today". So they've done it. They've maxed out our nations credit cards.

The UK is just starting on a painful period of austerity. For the brief moment of the election the UK people did accept that our credit card is maxed out and something has to be done. What the UK government is doing is pretty basic fiscal readjustment with unanimous support from the markets and international groups - but the opposition have already persuaded many that it is "too much, too soon". The USA has a government that isn't advocating austerity. It is in effect blaming the bankers, a comfortable half truth that won't actually solve the problem. And international bodies, including Moody's, are expressing disquiet.

What is needed in the UK and the USA (and many others) is for everyday people to take on board that their nation has overspent and that there must be cutbacks. Right now the UK has done enough for the threat of downgrade by Moody's et al to be lifted - we had a close squeek. But the USA hasn't acted and the threat still exists. Personally I think Moody's would prefer to disband themselves rather than downgrade the USA as they know how devastating a downgrade would be (to the USA and the world) - but there are real problems. There are three big ratings agencies plus quite a few others (particularly Asian ones) and if these smaller ones start downgrading the USA it is hard to see how Moody's could resist the pressure.

 

[dandelion]

Are any of you peacenik bleeding heart lefties going to pull him up on this?

Change the word "banker" to "black, "jewish" or "immigrant" and you'll see how offensive New End's statement really is.

Change the word "banker" to "murderer, "rapist" or "paedophile" and you'll see how offensive New End's statement really is...

All a matter of perception, really, isnt it? Bankers have perceived there is absolutely nothing to stop them.

 

[Jason]

Bankers have perceived there is absolutely nothing to stop them.

You and I and everyone on this board has the power to stop them.

If we tell our politicians to live within our nations' means we stop the bankers. If we tell our politicians we want X, Y and Z and we want to pay less then there will be bankers - or some other class of financiers or some other scam giving us what we want but can't pay for.

 

[Speculator]

Change the word "banker" to "murderer, "rapist" or "paedophile" and you'll see how offensive New End's statement really is...

All a matter of perception, really, isnt it? Bankers have perceived there is absolutely nothing to stop them.

Given the furore over the Teaparty's "violent, hate fuelled rhetoric" I just wondered whether the liberals on this board were going to get their house in order or sweep the violent tendencies of their own members under the carpet.

It looks like I got my answer.

 

[B_New End]

Given the furore over the Teaparty's "violent, hate fuelled rhetoric" I just wondered whether the liberals on this board were going to get their house in order or sweep the violent tendencies of their own members under the carpet.

It looks like I got my answer.

What makes you think I care about violent rhetoric?
Who cares about the tea parties violent rhetoric? I sure as hell don't. Tea partier's getting up and arms and doing stupid shit is a good thing. the stupider and louder and more violent they get, teh greater and more cruel the backlash will be.

and... as I said, tea partiers are just shooting their pwecious widdle wacist bwoodfirsty nation they wuv so much in da foot. Please Tea partiers, fire the first shots against the socialist boogyman. In the end, "we" will all lose because of it. But the world will laugh with glee when they see America turned in on itself.

Raise the red flag. Red symbolizes blood for a reason.
The only reason people speak of peaceful means, is because they are afraid to say how they really feel. Seeing how the constitution rarely applies to communists, they are right to be pissed off. America's primary goal since WW I has been to stop communism, and impose white imperialism across the world.

You seriously need to seek help, I've read a lot of deranged drivel in my time but your violent rants genuinely convey the sense of someone that has lost their grip on reality.

Please go and speak to somebody before it's too late, you may end up doing something you regret.

Shut the fuck up. Who the fuck you think you are kidding?

yes the system is crooked, but you make it sound like you've uncovered a worldwide conspiracy.

You maketh ith thound like... STFU.

No offence but you're not privy to any special information, we all know we're being bent over and screwed by "the man" but there's no need to lose the plot over it. Lighten up a little.

No, you don't know, because if you did:
1. You would realize at the least, socialism is the answer, and socialist policies are the reason "capitalism" in America didn't descend into violent revolution decades ago.

2. You would be steaming pissed off about the wars and the robbery the elite are imposing on us through their architecture of control.
If you know you are being bent over a barrel, why aren't you STEAMING FUCKING PISSED OFF? Obviously you don't know it, or your asshole is numb from the constant raping. Or, in reality, you are only using sniveling little weaselly diplomatic rhetoric to make it sound like you "know", when deep down, you think everything is all fair and all good. Lighten up? You like getting raped?

3. Unless of course, you are saying socialism is a good thing in your avatar, and you actually think robbery is a good thing... or is it only acceptable when bankers do it the masses for the very few, as opposed when to when the masses do it to the bankers for the good of all the exploited peoples of the world.

What is needed in the UK and the USA (and many others) is for everyday people to take on board that their nation has overspent and that there must be cutbacks

Wrong-O buddy. there is no need to cut welfare, or raise tuitions, or any of those lies being fed to us by the bankers and transnational financiers. The poor have to suffer for the crimes of the rich and middle class? Do the rich even knwo what suffering is? have they ever even had an idea of what economic suffering is? No, nor would they under this so called "need for austerity". It's a big fucking lie. Most of the money we owe is to American banks, who frankly, have been robbing the American people blind every chance they got. They have had all the money, therefore all the power. They have used that power to make more money for themselves, and put more Americans in debt. And not just consumer debt, they started on the farmers of America, who needed the money for seed and equipment. The bankers have been partying for decades, and that party is almost over.

And then when they partied too hard, they just made us give them a little loan of 700B backed up by trillions in printed money immediately deposited to their bank accounts. They are crooks, and they deserve nothing less than life sentences. Crackheads can get 5 years for stealing a TV, and these crooks stole billions.

Fact is, we don't need the bankers. America would get along just fine without them.

 

[Jason]

The poor have to suffer for the crimes of the rich and middle class?

Of course.

Economics is not a moral discipline, just as physics is not a moral discipline. Economics isn't fair. It isn't unfair either - it just doesn't have anything to do with fair-ness. It is amoral.

Right now many states (UK, USA, Eurozone) have run up enormous debts. This isn't some abstract problem but rather something which reduces nations' ability to give a good deal to their citizens. The first ones to be hurt will always be the poorest - economics reaally cannot avoid that.

There is a comfortable political discourse that someone else is to blame and it is right that they should pay up. Today we're mostly saying that the bankers are to blame. But the bankers (or those working in finance, or the rich) are all working within a regulatory framework that we the people (through our politicians) have set up. We vote for politicians who promise variously lower taxes and more public spending. And when those politicians get into power they find the only way they can deliver is through taking on more debt - which in recent years has meant giving the banks the green light for all sorts of dodgy practices.

Yes the poor are the most hurt now and I'm really upset by that. But I reject absolutely the comfortable idea that the bankers/rich/middle are uniquely to blame. Rather we are all to blame, and all includes the poor. Anyone who in the last decade has voted for any political party that promised more spending and/or less taxes is to blame.

This is the crisis in western democracy. This is why countries like China refuse to adopt democracy. For the west the solution is education - we need a high level of economic literacy among voters. The poor will suffer until people (certainly including the poor) start demanding and voting for sound economic policies. The bankers et al are just the tool through which the inevitable pain of wrong economic policies is inflicted on the poor - if it weren't this lot it would be some other group.

 

[B_New End]

Economics is not a moral discipline, just as physics is not a moral discipline. Economics isn't fair. It isn't unfair either - it just doesn't have anything to do with fair-ness. It is amoral.

In that case, so are politics and wars and revolutions.

Economics are not like physics. Economics involves human beings, human emotions, and human decisions, which do not always follow any prescribed formulas.

Economics are not a physical science, and nothing like a physical science. They are a social science at best.

 

[deleted15807]

In that case, so are politics and wars and revolutions.

Economics are not like physics. Economics involves human beings, human emotions, and human decisions, which do not always follow any prescribed formulas.

Economics are not a physical science, and nothing like a physical science. They are a social science at best.

But what happened wasn't supposed to happen. The economists had wonderful formulas and models and we know so much more about economics now that a 1930's style depression was just not possible. But alas it's back to the drawing board now.

 

[maxcok]

But what happened wasn't supposed to happen. The economists had wonderful formulas and models and we know so much more about economics now that a 1930's style depression was just not possible. But alas it's back to the drawing board now.

If I'm not mistaken weren't there a bunch of regulatory controls put on the market after the Great Depression to prevent it from happening again? And weren't those controls systematically eliminated over the past 40 or so years because they hindered innovation and expansion and were a drag on the free market system? One of the two political parties has pushed that agenda relentlessly, I forget which one. And weren't a whole lot of new financial instruments and shell games dreamed up that hardly anyone understood, designed to suck pure profits out of the market, out of thin air? And didn't wise economists like Alan Greenspan tell us not to worry our tiny little heads about complicated things, that the market would govern itself? I mean, how could this happen?

Fortunately, everyone's learned their lessons, and there'll be no more greed or manipulating the system to take short term gains wherever possible. And fortunately someone tossed a TARP over all those sliced and diced CDO's and CDS's and absorbed them into the system where they sit like ticking time bombs, so nobody has to see them, or think about them, or bother trying to unravel them, or find out how completely worthless they are. And fortunately, the current administration was able to enact, on paper at least if not in practice, a fig leaf of token financial regulation overhaul to address the problems that led to near total global financial collapse, in spite of overwhelming resistance from one of the two political parties, I forget which one again. And even though that party I can't recall right now is openly determined to rip this little paper fig leaf to shreds, burn it to ashes, and grind it to dust, I'm sure we have nothing to worry about, right?

I mean, there's no way it could happen again, right?

 

[B_nyvin]

But what happened wasn't supposed to happen. The economists had wonderful formulas and models and we know so much more about economics now that a 1930's style depression was just not possible. But alas it's back to the drawing board now.

"know more" about economics? Economics is a man made science, that's like saying we "know more" about english.

If you want to see a depression worse then the 1930's one that happened recently look over to the soviet states in the 1990's...and they were modern countries as well.

 

[Jason]

We know more about why the 1930s depression happened, more about how to avoid depressions and more about how to react when countries get into a depression (in effect what happened in the former USSR states in the 1990s as pointed out above, and what is happening in Greece now).

Unfortunately our politicians - reflecting the views of the electorate - often ignore economics. There is frequently a lag of some years between taking a bad economic decision and being hit by the consequencies. Most voters do not associate an economic problem with the politician who caused it.

The level of debt in the USA and in Europe reflects politicians spending money their nations don't have. Many even try to justify this by some over-simplified rendition of the Keynesian concept of governments spending to get out of recessions. The politicians should be ashamed of themselves. A few are just ignorant (until last week the UK shadow chancellor was an economic illiterate) but most are making what they know are wrong decisions in order to get short term political advantage - and that is pretty shocking.

The problem for the western world is how to get out of the debt mess it is in. The UK is going for an austerity programme, and that is getting international approval (though a gowing tide of domestic opposition, including the aforementioned over-simplified Keynesianism that you should spend to get out a recession [less simplified is you borrow if it is prudent to do so - and it sure isn't now]). The brutal truth is that any decision that any politician now takes will hurt the poorest. It is not possible to get out of the hole by hitting the rich or the middle - rebalancing an economy has to start with rebalancing the money of the poorest. And rebalancing means reducing. In the UK we are told to expect 5% inflation, level wages, job and benefit cuts. This hurts everyone, and of course it hurts the poor hardest. There is no alternative once an economy is in the mess the UK's is in. Of course better is not to get in that mess in the first place.

 

[B_New End]

The brutal truth is that any decision that any politician now takes will hurt the poorest. It is not possible to get out of the hole by hitting the rich or the middle - rebalancing an economy has to start with rebalancing the money of the poorest. And rebalancing means reducing. In the UK we are told to expect 5% inflation, level wages, job and benefit cuts. This hurts everyone, and of course it hurts the poor hardest. There is no alternative once an economy is in the mess the UK's is in. Of course better is not to get in that mess in the first place.

lies lies lies lies.