Moral and possible Legal situation.... advice please!

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by jjsjr, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. jjsjr

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    A friend of ours owns a bar and invited us to a private party there this past Saturday. Things were fine until the owner's 17 year old boy toy saunters in and no one bats an eye. One of the bartenders pours him a beer, which he then drinks... again, no one seemed shaken. Things went from awkward to rediculous when the boy went down to the basement and returned wearing a thong to which he danced around rather provocatively. (17 years old) We were upset and left. The following morning, I posted on my Facebook page that I was researching Delaware's liquor laws. Within an hour later, my boyfriend and I receive 3 calls from 3 different bar staff members accusing us of being hypocritical and that they were shocked someone would do that 'to them.' And at the moment, all the staff members of the bar are completely siding with the owner and are willing to sweep the info under the rug in hopes it will go away... which in DE, would be considered conspiracy. I'm upholding devout virtues and ethics here and am being chastized for it.

    What do I do?

    Joe.
     
  2. helgaleena

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    It was a private party. The young man was on his parents' property and they presumably know what he did.

    It may have been tasteless but it was not illegal, even in Delaware, because he is the owner's son. It would only have been illegal if it had been open to the public. Or if he were not in his own parents' bar.
     
  3. m4mfun510

    m4mfun510 New Member

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    I am not a lawyer.

    You did the right thing by leaving. But there was no reason, IMHO, to post a comment on Facebook. People (the bartenders and the bar owner) can be expected to be defensive because it may be perceived by them as some type of threat (you may not have named them, but they knew you were there and they know they did something wrong). The Delaware licensing agency may monitor Facebook for this info (Facebook is not private).

    I'd remove the Facebook posting and find another watering hole to visit.

    Regarding their being "shocked", they should be shocked that they served a minor liquor. That's against the law. (AFAIK, anyone can wear a thong and dance, though :smile: .) They know they did something illegal that could cost the bar their license, they felt threatened (whether that was your intent or not) that the license might be endanger, and then they did something stupid by calling you guys.

    Would have been better if they'd just said something like "You know, we really made a big mistake, but would you mind taking that down."
     
  4. helgaleena

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    Yes, it would be good to drink elsewhere if you were shocked enough, especially after your discovery of your friend's poor morals toward his child.
     
  5. jjsjr

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    It's not his son.... it was his 17 yr old lover... for lack of a better word.

    I feel like Rear Window minus the wheelchair.
     
  6. bigjpgh

    bigjpgh Member

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    If anything it would be a corruption of minors charge at best. Because it was a private party, the liquor license is not implicated because a liquor license is needed to sell to the public. A private party may have liquor without a liquor license. That does not give them the right to serve a minor nor the minor a right to drink. Whatever your feelings on this may be, consider the ramifications of your actions before you do anything. While it may seem right to you that the individuals who served the minor may be prosecuted for corruption of a minor, that boy may also be charged with underage drinking and subject to loss of driver's license, inability to get some financial aid for college, and potentially a criminal or at least a driving record that will make employment difficult. There is more at stake here than just your moral idea of when the proper age is for an individual to be able to have a drink.
     
  7. LuvMensCocks

    LuvMensCocks New Member

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    He said "Boy Toy" not son. You did the right thing by leaving if it made you uncomfortable. However posting it on Facebook was wrong. Not everything in life is an open book. If it bothered you so much handle it with the owner personally then if you don't get satisfaction then don't go back.

    Getting on Facebook and talking about makes me think you might have kinda liked it but the fact that he was 17 makes it not ok. If he had danced around in long pants and a long sleeved shirt would that have offended as much?

    Before all the clowns jump on me about how morally wrong it is, I wonder how many times in one day any one of you have stared at someone in a tiny little bathing suit (Man or Woman) without having any idea how old they are. It just happens that he knew he was 17.

    I get it, Serving a minor beer was wrong. You know half the underage drinkers get their booze from mom and dads house. If he indeed was too young I get that too. Think about that the next time you are at the beach and looking at the hot ones. Better ask their age before you oogle at them.
     
  8. Gillette

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    Isn't sex with a 17 year old considered statutory rape or is the legal age for consent different in Delaware?
     
  9. MrToolhung

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    The young man was not his son as stated by the OP. It was the owner's boy toy. I don't know anything about the liquor laws in Delaware but I am sure it would still be illegal to let a minor drink in a bar. And that of course would mean if it were a private party. Liquor laws in general would encompass hours of operation and when serving if liquor most stop. If there were different laws that apply to private functions in a bar then those establishments would stay open all night long by saying it was a private party.

    The above is really from my own experience living in Ontario and Michigan. I work with Ontario Liquor laws daily which are very strict so I could be off base here.
     
  10. Vestigial

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    I'd like to say do what is right and just,

    not that I'm sure what that would be in this instance.


    Their asses are on the line, and it seems they favor aggression to confession.

    I've even seen Police falsely charge people with trumped up charges after they attack them on suspicion. Won't blame you if you start thinking the world has gone strange...
     
  11. MonsterUncut

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    1: Allowing a minor on premises, private party or not, doesn't matter
    2: Dispensing alcohol to a minor/Contributing
    3: Statutory rape..a minor is a minor no matter how you say it.....
    =
    1: First offense..fine for bartender and owner, 2nd, fines and closure for a period of time and so on
    2: Fines for both the bartender and owner/closure
    3: You won't have to worry about the other two because the only partying you're going to see is someone's bitch dancing from cell to cell....
    4: Loss of liquor permits
    Have they ever heard of Delaware Division of Alcohol and Tobacco Enforcement, plain clothes, even if the bar is closed, day or night, they can still knock on the door and gain entrance, card people in attendance.

    Wish them the best......Just not worth the risk on so many levels.

    Peace
     
  12. ericbythebay

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    You said the owner is a friend, if you want to remain friends, I'd let it go.

    Sounds like there are some other issues here.
     
  13. D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah

    D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah Account Disabled

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    I don't think it was a big deal. He chose to drink, he chose to dance half naked so it isn't like a minor was exploited by adults.
     
  14. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    Shouldnt have posted on Facebook man. Thats pretty petty. Its alittle messed up, but are people considered adults in America by the age of 18? If so, leave it and apoligise for posting if you still wanna be friends. But tell them that they should probs do something about the whole event.
     
  15. midlifebear

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    Now you've openly challenged them on Facebook, it's time to move out of town and change your names.
     
  16. Gillette

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    Yes it is. As a minor, by law he is denied those choices. If an adult other than his guardian provides those choices then it's contributing = illegal.
     
  17. wallaboi

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    Devout virtues and posting on facebook??? If you had serious concerns about the welfare of this young man, I think the better option would have been to talk with him and/or the owner of the bar directly. If you believed the boy is in danger of exploitation or assult you should contact the police. Posting on facebook is promoting drama for all invloved and is not going to help anyone.
     
  18. Chase1600

    Chase1600 Member

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    You have received some good advice.

    You were very wise to leave the premises. The young man is a minor; it is illegal to serve him alcohol; it is illegal to engage in any sexual behavior with him. We should promptly absent ourselves from situations such as this.

    Personally, I think you should remove your posts from Facebook. I don’t think you have a legal obligation to report your suspicions to the District Attorney’s office. Let it be presumed that you don’t know with certainty what is going on with these people and a young man whom you presume to not yet be 18. If a legal issue comes of it and you are required to make a statement or testify, you’ll have to tell the truth as you know it.

    Depending upon how long you were present and how much you know to be fact, you could have reason to hire a lawyer.

    I think your association with these people is probably ended. Depending upon their behavior in general, maybe it’s for the better, perhaps way for the better. If an adult engages in any sexual behavior with a minor they are at risk of being charged with a crime. All over of the US, local prosecutors are – to my mind – excessively aggressive with these charges. People so charged have a high rate of conviction and become labeled as sexual offenders who must register and whose names and pictures can be Goggled and observed by anyone in their community.

    It has to be mortifying.

    You would not want that to happen to you and you probably will be ambivalent about associating with people who must register even were you sympathetic with the situation.

    I had no difficulty locating the Delaware Sex Offender Registry.

    Some years ago I was a guest at a party at which some other guests discussed what I took to be interests in under age people – near you apparently, on the Eastern Shore of Maryland – I took my leave politely but promptly.

    I think you did much the same and I think you were wise.
     
    #18 Chase1600, Feb 3, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  19. coachreffn

    coachreffn Active Member

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    I noted the phrase that you were upholding 'devout virtues and ethics'. In many ways, I felt you did the right thing except by saying nothing at the time. A well chosen word to someone in charge at the party could have gone a long ways in dealing with the situation at the moment. To moralize afterwards does smack of hypocricy. I can see why the bartenders felt that way. When you left the party, you in no way spoke of the situation and under the safety of a public forum like Facebook you threatened their livelihood. This doesn't condone any of their actions. Yet, as a friend, you had the moral responsibililty to protect them. You didn't. Don't get on a moral high horse now and state that you are upholding devout virtues and ethics."
     
  20. SouthernGirl

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    stop snitching
     
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