More Enlightenment Problems.

[JustAsking]

Public school girl expelled on suspicion of witchcraft.

What kind of boneheads run our school systems? Its one thing to to be so astonishingly ignorant as to believe the girl could throw hexes.

My concern is that a public school administration can be so ignorant of The Constitution. Isn't this the same institution charged with teaching us about the American system of government?

 

[B_Hickboy]

What Enlightenment? We can't define an epistemology or agree on one. As a movement away from superstition, the Enlightenment has failed. The few who have abandoned old superstitions have simply replaced them with a set of new ones.

I'm as appalled as you are, though. It just goes to show that what passes for thought usually isn't, even among so-called 'educators'.

 

[D_Chaumbrelayne_Copprehead]

Time to move Oklahoma from the 19th century into the 20th century. We'll worry about getting to the 21st century later.

 

[Smartalk]

My first question would be "What proof do they have to say that she is a witch" The world has gone crazy. Very soon you won't be able to breath for fear of breaking the law, offending someone, polluting the air, not paid for the privilage or you already used up this months quota with 6 days still to go.

Is it any wonder that people get frustrated, angry, become depressed, commit suicide. The only time we will become "enlightened" is when we realise we are heading back to the dark ages

 

[B_Nick4444]

My concern is that a public school administration can be so ignorant of The Constitution. Isn't this the same institution charged with teaching us about the American system of government?

point -- witchcraft is not a religion, so is the ACLU's reasoning and argument, asserting Constitutional protection tenable?

point -- the defendant's name seems to be Native American, so the question is whether the school instructor or teacher is also Native American, and subscribes to the same worldview; Given that it is well-known that if both have the same belief of the effects of 'witchcraft', then, yes, the exercise of that practice could have had an effect on the teacher, then the student's intent and design are the appropriate subject(s) of disciplinary action.

 

[B_Hickboy]

Ummmm...The article was dated almost eight and a half years ago. Does anybody know the disposition of the case?

 

[nudeyorker]

I would have to do some research, this was on ABC years ago. I think the Court ruled in favor of the school district before it went to trial. If I remember there was more to the story than reported here.

 

[B_Hickboy]

I would have to do some research, this was on ABC years ago. I think the Court ruled in favor of the school district before it went to trial. If I remember there was more to the story than reported here.

You mean the ACLU didn't tell the whole truth on their website? QUELLE HORREUR!!!

 

[nudeyorker]

You mean the ACLU didn't tell the whole truth on their website? QUELLE HORREUR!!!

I love when you speak french!

 

[JustAsking]

What Enlightenment? We can't define an epistemology or agree on one. As a movement away from superstition, the Enlightenment has failed. The few who have abandoned old superstitions have simply replaced them with a set of new ones.

I'm as appalled as you are, though. It just goes to show that what passes for thought usually isn't, even among so-called 'educators'.

I think a good High School science student could design an experiment to measure the potency of that girl's ability to affect someone's health with her alledged special abilities.

 

[nudeyorker]

This was all I could find, but as I recall the appeal was dismissed.I'll look this up at work on Monday.

In US District Court in Tulsa, Oklahoma on 7/17/2002 Judge Claire Eagan ruled in favor of Tulsa Union Public Schools and issued a summary judgment in favor of the school district. This ruling was handed down just days before the trial was schedule to start.

The Tulsa World reported on the outcome of the case in a report dated 7/19/02 and titled "Judge rules in favor of district". That report quoted Judge Eagan's order as indicating:

Blackbear testified during a deposition that she is not, has never been and has never wanted to be a Wiccan.

Blackbear also admitted that the defendants have not done anything to keep her from practicing any religion.

In view of this testimony, the court finds that Brandi does not hold a sincere belief in the religion of Wicca.

Blackbear has admitted that religion played no role in the decision to discipline her in December 1999.

The referenced report went on to quote Blackbear's attorney John M. Butler as stating:

The order may not be "exactly correct" on those points and said his client's purported statements may have been "taken out of context."

The report went on to quote Mr. Butler as indicating an appeal is probable and that he is optimistic that Blackbear will prevail at that level.

 

[B_Nick4444]

sound logical reasoning

 

[HazelGod]

point -- witchcraft is not a religion, so is the ACLU's reasoning and argument, asserting Constitutional protection tenable?

Really? I know a few Wiccans who would argue the veracity of your "point."

 

[B_Nick4444]

Really? I know a few Wiccans who would argue the veracity of your "point."

was I misreading the article, I thought it pointedly said she was NOT a Wiccan

" ...While the ACLU has defended students' religious beliefs in Wicca and other minority religions, Bell said the Oklahoma lawsuit is believed to be the first in the country involving actual accusations of witchcraft...."

took this to mean it was distinguishing Wicca from the "witchcraft" the child was supposedly practicing?

don't know much about it, so your reading may be correct

 

[B_Nick4444]

actually, since the findings refer to Wicca, I definitely misread

 

[_avg_]

According the the suit filed by her lawyers, the incidents (plural) she was suing over were described as unfolding thusly:

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT "4. Plaintiff carried a backpack with all of her school books and supplies which had been left in a locked room. On
April 28, 1999, Defendants Ojala and Miller proceeded to open her backpack and search her personal effects
under the guise of looking for a gun. Unable to find a gun or anything that could be considered a weapon, they
confiscated all of her notes, school work, and private notebooks, read through many of the stories, and eventually
came upon a story involving a fictitious shooting incident on a school bus.


5. Upon reading the Plaintiff's fictional narrative, a literary work in progress, Defendant Jack Ojala and Defendant
Catherine Miller panicked and assumed that Brandi Blackbear was going to create an incident, and that the
Plaintiff was a deadly threat to all of the students because of the incident at Columbine High School.


6. After reading the Plaintiff's notebook, the Defendants Ojala and Miller notified her parents and summarily
informed them that she would be suspended from school.


7. On April 28, 1999, at approximately 10:15 a.m., the parents of Brandi Blackbear received a call from an
official at the Union Eighth Grade Center advising them of their need to come to the school immediately because
of problems with Brandi Blackbear. They had no previous notice, nor were they advised of the nature of the
violation until they arrived at school. The Plaintiff was suspended for nineteen (19) days beginning April 28, 1999,
and was not allowed to return to school until the first day of classes of the fall term of 1999-2000.


8. On the 29th day of April, 1999, the school held a kangaroo-type court, due process hearing consisting of
school employees and including those that would not be fair and impartial to the Plaintiff. At that stage, the
Plaintiff, who was basically denied due process, and her parents were advised that it was a waste of time for them
to appeal the case any further. The Plaintiff's parents did not receive notice of the appeal deadline until the day of
same.


9. As a result of the school officials' actions, the Plaintiff became an outcast among many of her peers and suffered
extreme ridicule and harassment by other students, some even asking the Plaintiff if they were on her "hit list."


10. The Plaintiff enrolled in the 9th grade at Union Intermediate High School at the beginning of the fall term of
1999. She continued to suffer embarrassment, ridicule, and comments from other students that had been at the
previous school, who had heard the rumors started by that school's officials. There were no other problems
except that because of the school's suspension, the Plaintiff suffered severely in the area of math and could not
properly catch up the next fall in order to continue with her education without making bad grades.


11. After the semester started in the fall of 1999, the Plaintiff discovered a book that had a section on Wicca in
the school library. She started to read the book, make notes, and do some individual study. She was seen by
other students with the book and some comments were made jokingly about her studying the religion of Wicca.


12. On or about the weekend prior to December 13, 1999 one of the school teachers, a Mr. Kemp, had to be
admitted to the hospital on an emergency basis. The nature of his illness or disability was unknown to the Plaintiff
at that time and is still unknown.


13. The second incident surrounding and giving cause to the Plaintiff's civil rights cause of action occurred on or
about the 13th day of December, 1999, Defendant Charlie Bushyhead, the Assistant Principal for Union
Intermediate High School, along with Defendant Sandy Franklin, a counselor at Union Public Schools, sent for
Brandi and had her come into the office. When she arrived at the office, Defendant Bushyhead started being
hostile towards her and accused her of being a witch.


14. Defendant, Sandy Franklin, was supposed to have been a counselor and had been helping the Plaintiff, Brandi
Blackbear, but instead at this time joined in the interrogation. Defendant Bushyhead and Defendant Franklin
repeatedly accused the Plaintiff of being a member of Wicca, practicing Wicca, and casting spells on other
people. Plaintiff, Brandi Blackbear, repeatedly denied these accusations until such point as she was not
emotionally strong enough to deny. She admitted that she had been reading books about Wicca and that she
could be a member of a Wicca coven, although she had been heretofore been studying Wicca independently.
Plaintiff Brandi Blackbear admitted this only because of the continued hostility and oppression by the Defendants.


15. The Plaintiff had a star drawn on her hand in ink, similar to the star that is printed on the flag of the United
States of America, with a circle drawn around it. Defendant Bushyhead accused the Plaintiff of having a
pentagram or a witches' symbol on her hand.


16. Plaintiff, Brandi Blackbear, was advised that she could not use any kind of emblems or any other
paraphernalia that even remotely pertained to the Wicca religion, although numerous students openly displayed
other religious symbols including the Christian cross and other items of religious paraphernalia inside the school.


17. The interview culminated with Defendant Bushyhead accusing Plaintiff, Brandi Blackbear, of casting spells
causing Mr. Kemp to be sick and to be hospitalized. Based upon the unknown cause of Mr. Kemp's illness,
Defendant Bushyhead advised Plaintiff that she was an immediate threat to the school and summarily suspended
her for what he arbitrarily determined to be a disruption of the education process. Apparently, Bushyhead
believed this alleged disruption was due to Mr. Kemp becoming sick because Plaintiff, Brandi Blackbear, had
supposedly cast a spell upon this school teacher."


http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGknG.e4RJ7h4ByZ1XNyoA/SIG=1ba2enc64/EXP=1233505598/**http%3a//66.218.69.11/search/cache%3fei=UTF-8%26p=Blackbear%2bv.%2bUnion%2bPublic%2bSchool%2bIndependent%2bDistrict%2bNo.%2b9%26fr=yfp-t-501%26u=www2.yk.psu.edu/%257Ejlg18/484/word/blackbear%252520case.doc%26w=blackbear%2b%2522black%2bbear%2522%2bv%2bunion%2bpublic%2bschool%2bindependent%2bdistrict%2bno%2b9%26d=WKYLTg-YSJnd%26icp=1%26.intl=us

 

[Simon8.5]

You mean the ACLU didn't tell the whole truth on their website? QUELLE HORREUR!!!

quel horreur

the "quel" needs to modify the "horreur" which is a masculine noun

 

[B_Hickboy]

quel horreur

the "quel" needs to modify the "horreur" which is a masculine noun

Thank you, Richard. I can always count on you.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

quel horreur

the "quel" needs to modify the "horreur" which is a masculine noun

Quel Dick-head - or should that be Dick-hall?

 

[ManlyBanisters]

quel horreur

the "quel" needs to modify the "horreur" which is a masculine noun

Thank you, Richard. I can always count on you.

Actually - you can't - he's wrong. Quelle surprise!! :biggrin1:

horreur
(nom féminin)

Ecouter la définition...
Impression de vive répulsion causée par quelque chose d'affreux, de révoltant ou de terrible.
Détestation.
Caractère de ce qui est horrible.
Chose horrible.

http://www.mediadico.com/dictionnaire/definition/horreur/1
​

horreur
feminine noun

horror;
quelle ~! how horrible!;
dire des ~s de or sur qn to say awful things about sb;
loathing;
avoir ~ de qn/de faire to loathe sb/doing.

http://www.wordreference.com/fren/horreur
​

horreur
nf (o-rreur)
[snip]

Quelle innocence ! quelle vertu ! quelle horreur du vice ! [Fénelon, Télémaque]

http://littre.reverso.net/dictionnaire-francais/definition/horreur/38134
​