Most Americans say tax rich to balance budget

[Speculator]

And if you would have actually checked the links (instead of speculated through the narrowness of your own political bigotry), you would have seen that Switzerland was #1 for governance and New Zealand was #1 for education.



They do the research and you do nothing but judge. Let's stick to the facts on this one and not a preconceived ideology.



That's nice even if it's slightly exaggerated about the rival gang nonsense. Not every place in America is comparable to Compton. Now, do you have anything to add in regards to the subject matter? I actually respect many of the posters in this thread so you're not going to hijack it.

The U.S could solve their economic problems by eating the poor. If you included every welfare claimaint into a lottery where say 50 of them a week were minced and turned into pet food eventually you'd have no poor people left and the deficit wouldn't be an issue.

At the very least it would cut down on the social security bill as marginal claimaints decided it wasn't worth the risk

 

[B_VinylBoy]

The U.S could solve their economic problems by eating the poor. If you included every welfare claimaint into a lottery where say 50 of them a week were minced and turned into pet food eventually you'd have no poor people left and the deficit wouldn't be an issue.

And with this I know to completely ignore everything you chirp on this issue from here to eternity. It's clear that you're just trying to phish for a line of crazy rhetoric in hopes to set off liberals. There's a certain term we call that around here, alas, I won't use it because I don't want you to start crying about how the evil, angry VinylBoy calls everyone names.

Now back to the thread.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

In case "most Americans" hadn't realised they didn't have a tax problem until the housing market blew up in their face. Whatever problems they imagine they have won't be solved by taxing the rich, it'll either have zero effect (the most likely outcome) or make things worse.

You guys are gluttons for punishment.

lol... keeping selling that snake oil. Surely there's someone dumb enough to buy what you're selling.

I know it's really, really hard for people who flunked 5th grade math to understand, but when an entity makes more money than it spends, the amount of its outstanding debt doesn't stay the same or get worse, it is in fact reduced. And if an entity reduces its debt enough, inevitably, the debt will be completely gone! Hard to believe, I know, but a govt which collects more in taxes than it spends really can balance its budget!

 

[B_talltpaguy]

The U.S could solve their economic problems by eating the poor. If you included every welfare claimaint into a lottery where say 50 of them a week were minced and turned into pet food eventually you'd have no poor people left and the deficit wouldn't be an issue.

At the very least it would cut down on the social security bill as marginal claimaints decided it wasn't worth the risk

I have known you are a sociopath since the first day you posted here... But I didn't know until now that you are one seriously fucked in the head sicko. Pathetic.

Try studying human history and you'll notice that when the rich think they can oppress everyone else, it is the rich who get eaten, every time, without fail.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

I expect your solution amounts to stealing from one set of people "the rich", and then handing it to another set of people "the poor".

Why would society at large NOT punitively tax the rich, when it's a very well known fact that the rich use their wealth like a weapon to corrupt govt to get their agenda served, all costs to society at large be damned. At least when society rises up and taxes them to pay back what they stole, society won't be corrupting the system to do it, things will simply be reset back to normal, like when things actually were paid for, not billed to the next generation.

If the rich didn't want to draw the ire of the rest of us, then they shouldn't have abused the rest of us like their personal ATM/punching bag for the past 30 years. There's a whole lot of populist anger and frustration building up towards the rich these days, and so far as I'm concerned, the rich should be counting their lucky stars that when things do return to normal, it will be done peacefully, and we won't literally kill off our oppressors, like people routinely did in past eras.

 

[Industrialsize]

The U.S could solve their economic problems by eating the poor. If you included every welfare claimaint into a lottery where say 50 of them a week were minced and turned into pet food eventually you'd have no poor people left and the deficit wouldn't be an issue.

At the very least it would cut down on the social security bill as marginal claimaints decided it wasn't worth the risk

Suggesting a "genocide" as the solution to any problem is totally inappropriate, even if it is meant in jest.

 

[midlifebear]

I fear Specky is evidence that while we weren't watching The He/She and Holy It escaped and may have produced a litter! Oh, the horror! Oh, the inhumanity! I fear it's only a matter of time before it begins channeling party line talking points instead of its own ignorance. :biggrin1:

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^That issue was particularly fun at the end, when I produced verifiable statistical evidence proving that The One Who Shall Not Be Named was discussing certain subject matter at a rate literally 10,000 times the rate at which the typical LPSG member was discussing those same issues. (btw, I never made it public back then because I wasn't 100% sure, and I didn't want to be wrong, but I had also tracked down evidence which strongly suggested that person was indeed a paid partisan shill, just like I had suspected all along)

I wish I had a link to that post... It was my greatest smackdown evar! lol

 

[DevonTexas]

I believe we're on the eve of a second civil war. It won't be fought on politics or race but between class and fierce independence from the government.

You may laugh at this post now, but you won't later.

 

[Big_Red]

I say tax the 5% wealthiest and any that have a residence outside the U.S. can be taxed an additional 4%.

Great plan! The only problem is, what happens when most of these people leave the US for tax purposes? They, by your own admission, have homes outside the US. They also have first class plane tickets, and in many cases, private jets. They can leave at any time and not be subject to any more tax. What will the government do then?

To repeat what I said in another thread: How many people here know that ALL personal income tax collected does not go towards education? Or roads. Or healthcare. Or welfare. Or social security. Or ANYTHING other than paying the interest owed on treasury debt? Income tax was introduced in anticipation of the Federal Reserve Act, in order to guarantee the credit of the United States. This, in turn, has lead to a nearly unlimited printing of money and issuance of debt.

That's why the tax law can be passed. The accountants are aware of each and ever loophole and make sure their clients can end up paying as little as can be or nothing and in many cases getting money back.

Didn't you mean, that's why the tax law can't be passed? Because your 100% bang-on with your second statement. Ask yourself, why are there loopholes in the tax law to begin with? Then ask yourself, why do most senators and congressmen (especially those with tens, or hundreds, of millions of dollars of assets) use these very loopholes to legally avoid paying taxes? :smile:

When income tax was first introduced in 1916, it was only imposed on the rich. When the alternative minimum tax was enacted in 1982, it also was only imposed on the rich. And look at us now.

The current nightmare budget and trade deficits were made possible by the government, and by the banking system. And now people want to give both the government and the banks more power to tax and indebt the masses? Genius! :biggrin1:

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Great plan! The only problem is, what happens when most of these people leave the US for tax purposes? They, by your own admission, have homes outside the US. They also have first class plane tickets, and in many cases, private jets. They can leave at any time and not be subject to any more tax. What will the government do then?

Seize their US based assets, obviously. You know, like shares of stock and bonds held in US firms, and US real estate.

 

[b.c.]

I think if those in Washington were really interested in creating a relatively "fair" tax program they'd come up with a kind of flat tax rate for all except those at or below a determined "poverty line".

Maybe something that taxes (after certain allowable deductions for dependents, head of households, married filing jointly, etc.) ALL income earned and unearned at a determined flat rate (including those precious "capital gains" and other such income the wealthy would have excluded).

Businesses would pay the same rate based on their profits (after expenses).

I say such a plan would be "relatively" fair because it would take into account the premise that those at or near the poverty level are able to buy less with their dollar, though I'm certain those at the upper income levels (and others who hold to the belief that such plans are designed to "rob the rich to feed the poor") would beg to differ.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

I believe we're on the eve of a second civil war. It won't be fought on politics or race but between class and fierce independence from the government.

You're probably 50% correct here. Worse case scenario, of course.

 

[Big_Red]

For argument's sake, even if the current loopholes didn't exist and this were permitted, a human being can physically transport themselves and their belongings outside of the US. Of course, this doesn't include real estate- so there's that. As for stocks and bonds, they can be transferred electronically to another institution outside of the jurisdiction of the US with a couple of phone calls.

Another problem is identifying which assets belong to whom. Anyone who makes $10+ million per year is definitely going to make use of offshore trusts and other instruments to legally avoid taxation. I mean, how do you as the government go after Joe Millionaire if his assets are in a bank account in Austria, controlled by a trust in Liechtenstein which, in turn, is controlled by a corporation in the Bahamas? His name isn't on any of them.

And lastly, there's that pesky Fifth Amendment which guarantees that no one shall be deprived of their property without due process. It's kinda hard to prove that someone owns something outside of the country if their name is in no way attached to it, don't ya think?

Seize their US based assets, obviously. You know, like shares of stock and bonds held in US firms, and US real estate.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^If they want to pretend that they don't actually own any of the stuff that they own, that's actually a good thing. Then they won't be able to complain when the US govt works out a series of diplomatic deals to seize those assets too... Kinda like when part of the offshore tax loophole problem was closed recently when a deal was worked out with the Swiss, among others.

Theories are nice, but you keep neglecting the reality of human history over and over... Those who push too far in the quest for self glorification at the expense of society, inevitably get smacked down by that society.

 

[Speculator]

Seize their US based assets, obviously. You know, like shares of stock and bonds held in US firms, and US real estate.

Typical, obsessed with other peoples money. If it was up to me I'd shut your fingers in the till.

 

[Big_Red]

Oh, I got it now. Have the government break the highest law of the land and arbitrarily start seizing property communist-style. Doesn't matter who it belongs to, if it's worth millions and looks nice, just seize it. Thank you for that.

The fact of the matter is that the US government can do pretty much whatever it wants, and it often does. But there are limits. There are already international banking laws which most jurisdictions adhere to. If convicted of murder, drug trafficking, money laundering, or terrorism, your assets can be seized overseas.

The Swiss have broken their own bank secrecy laws a bunch of times over the years, the most notable of which was when UBS turned over the names of account holders to the government. This was after one US lawyer was called out for helping people evade taxes. Like an idiot, he made a deal as a whistleblower and for his cooperation was rewarded with several years in federal prison. So, guess what happens the next time the government wants someone to "cooperate" with them? :wink:

The end result of this was that UBS was convicted of a crime, fined $800 million and is no longer allowed to do business with any publicly listed companies in the US. That's been really great for US-based investment banks such as Goldman Sachs.

Another unfortunate consequence of this is that existing UBS clients are leaving in droves, pulling out hundreds of millions of assets because the bank violated the privacy of some of its clients. The same goes for Switzerland as a whole. They're toast. No wealthy person in the right mind would ever put any money in Switzerland these days because of what happened.

No other country, or company, wants the same to happen to them. The way the government handled this particular case will guarantee more tax dodging, with little chance of seizure or conviction in the future. Nice going, guys. :smile:

^If they want to pretend that they don't actually own any of the stuff that they own, that's actually a good thing. Then they won't be able to complain when the US govt works out a series of diplomatic deals to seize those assets too... Kinda like when part of the offshore tax loophole problem was closed recently when a deal was worked out with the Swiss, among others.

Theories are nice, but you keep neglecting the reality of human history over and over... Those who push too far in the quest for self glorification at the expense of society, inevitably get smacked down by that society.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Typical, obsessed with other peoples money. If it was up to me I'd shut your fingers in the till.

Like most people who actually work for a living, I'm obsessed with MY money that I pay in taxes, not getting stolen by some self-entitled corporate sociopath who thinks it's his birthright to fuck the world over for personal gain.


I think it's funny to watch these people gloat that they are well off out of one side of their mouths, while they cry like a little bitch out of the other side of their mouths about how they can't afford to pay their taxes...

If the wealthy can't manage their budget to pay their taxes, then they should do what everyone else has to do when they're short. Shut the fuck up and go get a job. If the wealthy already have jobs, then get one that pays better or get a 2nd job. If after that the wealthy still can't manage to pay their bills, then they need to find a quiet place and just end it. Taxes aren't going away, no matter how much they wish they were.

The whole "the wealthy are the victims" shtick is played out and the persistence of the wealthy at blaming their personal budget problems on the rest of us just makes them all look pathetic. They need to do what we all have to do at some point in life; Grow the fuck up already, accept responsibility for their societal obligation and pay their fucking taxes.

I'll pay my taxes and you pay your taxes. Leave me and my children out of your budgetary calculations, ok? Thanks.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Another unfortunate consequence of this is that existing UBS clients are leaving in droves, pulling out hundreds of millions of assets because the bank violated the privacy of some of its clients. The same goes for Switzerland as a whole. They're toast. No wealthy person in the right mind would ever put any money in Switzerland these days because of what happened.

I wish the wealthy the best of luck offshoring their money to the moon. UBS/Switzerland wasn't the last domino to fall, it was the first.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Like most people who actually work for a living, I'm obsessed with MY money that I pay in taxes, not getting stolen by some self-entitled corporate sociopath who thinks it's his birthright to fuck the world over for personal gain.

I think it's funny to watch these people gloat that they are well off out of one side of their mouths, while they cry like a little bitch out of the other side of their mouths about how they can't afford to pay their taxes...

If the wealthy can't manage their budget to pay their taxes, then they should do what everyone else has to do when they're short. Shut the fuck up and go get a job. If the wealthy already have jobs, then get one that pays better or get a 2nd job. If after that the wealthy still can't manage to pay their bills, then they need to find a quiet place and just end it. Taxes aren't going away, no matter how much they wish they were.

The whole "the wealthy are the victims" shtick is played out and the persistence of the wealthy at blaming their personal budget problems on the rest of us just makes them all look pathetic. They need to do what we all have to do at some point in life; Grow the fuck up already, accept responsibility for their societal obligation and pay their fucking taxes.

GIve 'em hell, talltpaguy.