Most Americans say tax rich to balance budget

[Speculator]

Like most people who actually work for a living, I'm obsessed with MY money that I pay in taxes, not getting stolen by some self-entitled corporate sociopath who thinks it's his birthright to fuck the world over for personal gain.


I think it's funny to watch these people gloat that they are well off out of one side of their mouths, while they cry like a little bitch out of the other side of their mouths about how they can't afford to pay their taxes...

If the wealthy can't manage their budget to pay their taxes, then they should do what everyone else has to do when they're short. Shut the fuck up and go get a job. If the wealthy already have jobs, then get one that pays better or get a 2nd job. If after that the wealthy still can't manage to pay their bills, then they need to find a quiet place and just end it. Taxes aren't going away, no matter how much they wish they were.

The whole "the wealthy are the victims" shtick is played out and the persistence of the wealthy at blaming their personal budget problems on the rest of us just makes them all look pathetic. They need to do what we all have to do at some point in life; Grow the fuck up already, accept responsibility for their societal obligation and pay their fucking taxes.

I'll pay my taxes and you pay your taxes. Leave me and my children out of your budgetary calculations, ok? Thanks.

Hmmmm, I can't believe this line is coming from somebody that was arguing for the arbitrary seizure of private property only 3 or 4 posts ago.

Either your very forgetful, or just another in a long line of -dangerous- left leaning hypocrites that stalk this forum.

 

[JackWyatt76]

It won't work, rich people have all sorts of ways to get out of paying their taxes. They can hire lawyers to look for every loophole.

 

[Drifterwood]

People in the UK who earn over $150K pay c. 45% in direct tax and then enough in indirect taxes, property, cars, sales tax etc etc to take them over 50%. Is this enough for you, TPG? Do you think it works that a Government should take more than half of what people earn?

 

[B_talltpaguy]

People in the UK who earn over $150K pay c. 45% in direct tax and then enough in indirect taxes, property, cars, sales tax etc etc to take them over 50%. Is this enough for you, TPG? Do you think it works that a Government should take more than half of what people earn?

Yes, wealthy people paying a bottom-line tax rate of about 50% sounds good to me. If this was the true tax rate paid by the wealthy here in America, that would represent more than a tripling of the amount of taxes paid by many of them. Here in America, tax rates start at 33% or whatever it is right now for the wealthy, and they go down from there. Most wealthy Americans naturally don't even pay income taxes because the govt literally considers them unemployed (but not looking, thus they don't count according to the BLS' politically manipulated statistics). Most wealthy Americans get all of their income from investments so they pay only a 15% tax rate (or less).

Here in the USA, this is resulting in a society rapidly careening towards insolvency, as more and more is hoarded at the top, and less and less is left to be shared among a steadily growing population.



But the question remains, at that rate are your society's collective needs being met and is the govt's books fiscally sound? If the answer is no to either, then clearly the issue needs to be looked at. We can't legislate away need. Need can only be neglected. If funding is cut, then society's standard of living declines, so that the rich can maintain theirs. That might work for a few years, but not for long.

Point being, if you think the current social/political/economic structure of American society is sustainable, you're insane. hell, look at the problems you're having in the UK, and you're waaay better off than we are in many ways on this issue.

 

[midlifebear]

Remember the cautionary tale of Leona Helmsley whose fate was sealed when a former housekeeper testified during Helmsley's trial on tax fraud that she had heard Helmsley say: "We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes...," a saying that became notorious and was identified with her for the rest of her life. She was worth billions and still went to prison. So, every once in a while fairy tales do come true.

 

[Big_Red]

If you really feel this way, then why not move to France? The women are hot, the beaches are awesome, the food is exquisite, the healthcare is free and the highest tax bracket is hit with a rate of about 75%. And there, they actually do pay for services with income tax- unlike in the US where ALL of it goes towards paying interest on the nation's accumulated debt. So, you'd be in socialist heaven and the government is much more honest to boot. Any objections (other than having to parle Francais)?

Yes, wealthy people paying a bottom-line tax rate of about 50% sounds good to me.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

If you really feel this way, then why not move to France? The women are hot, the beaches are awesome, the food is exquisite, the healthcare is free and the highest tax bracket is hit with a rate of about 75%. And there, they actually do pay for services with income tax- unlike in the US where ALL of it goes towards paying interest on the nation's accumulated debt. So, you'd be in socialist heaven and the government is much more honest to boot. Any objections (other than having to parle Francais)?

I prefer to stay here and help set shit straight.

 

[FuzzyKen]

There are times I hesitate to enter these kinds of discussions because as people no matter what country we come from, the information we receive is at best often distorted to represent a viewpoint that some other individual wants you to share.

Corporations these days function purely on money and the opinions of stockholders. Stockholders can remove the top floor officers very easily and it is for that reason that these men operate in the manner in which they do. These men in control of vast corporate assets do not hesitate to direct soft money in any direction that will preserve the highest profits for their corporations and hence preserve the big fat soft and cushy jobs with their incredible percs.

Over the past few decades many businesses have changed their methods of operation so that they function more as private enterprises not serving the public good but instead serving the profits of the top level management and in some cases the stockholders of these corporations. This again protects their jobs and nothing more.

When we talk about the ultra rich these days we are not talking about a guy who even makes a cool million each year. We are talking about singular individuals who have incomes that are in the upper areas of the "hundreds of millions of dollars per year" into those who are earning well over one billion dollars.

Many of the ideas that have been presented already both progressive and conservative have some merit, but, the unfortunate facts are that we cannot trust major corporations to make sound rational decisions when the welfare of anything other than a profit and loss statement is a higher priority to them.

Right now our politicians are being bought and paid for by the major corporations that have the money to donate to political campaigns that places these people in office.

If the bought and paid for individual does not serve the corporation and others like it that bought his election with dollars, the same corporations place zero dollars to re-elect that candidate and spend tons of dollars to elect the puppet that they want who will best represent their ideas of placing the corporate profits above human health and welfare.

What never ceases to amaze me is that worldwide most of you are not even aware of who the truly richest people in terms of financial wealth really are. We hear of Donald Trump, we hear of Bill Gates and their wealth. There are people out there that you never hear of that could buy and sell these two in a heartbeat and never thing anything of it. Once your wealth exceeds a certain amount the smart guy simply drops off the map and does everything in secret.

The only way this system will ever be changed worldwide and made more equitable for all is to institute major changes in not only political campaign funding, but changes and incredibly strong laws and investigations into political corruption.

You will never in your life-times see these because we have let it go too far already. Conservatives who were honest good men gave power and abilities to these people to control those we elect via the almighty dollar, and unless we can find away to pry the dollars away from these campaigns there will never be taxation or even truth when economic problems take place. The worst of the beginning of the new world under corporate rule came under the Nixon and Reagan administrations in the United States.
What is sad is that we are all interlinked and that decisions made in one country can have severe impact on others. Poor decisions made by a previous presidential administration have had negative impacts all over the world. Yet, at the same time there were certain kinds of corporations that profited (or is it profiteered) under that administration on an incredible level.

The designs of Corporations world wide are easily able to protect themselves based on Corporate Security. Corporate Security is far tighter than the highest level of Government Security. For that reason only a small part of the political "clout" is actually seen.

I am not for VooDoo taxation. I am for common sense taxation. Tax laws are structured right now for the benefit of the "ultra rich". They are also structured to see to it that those below the ultra rich pick up the "tab" for the lives of those above.

Good or bad we all have our "untouchables" who serve little purpose, do little to no actual work, pay no taxes, and make themselves unpopular. Those on the bottom income level are talked about all the time because these are usually people whom for one reason of another are not able to "fight back". They are on public assistance and they lead lives obvious and in front of our faces. The others are at the very top of the income pyramid. They do exactly the same things and the main difference is that they are smart enough to have "us" paying for "them". They are revered as great people if they are talked about at all and they sit back and run many of our lives. They have corporate jets or converted commercial aircraft as their transportation, and they deliberately lead rather quiet and secretive lives. This is for their own safety.

If anyone wants to actually do anything they are going to have to get tough meaningful campaign finance reform passed removing all corporate political contributions and forcing campaigns to be run very differently. Another thing that would equalize would be to require under FCC regulations free airtime for all political candidates and allow each candidate for any given political office the same quantity of time without descrimination. This would mean that if during a given time pre-election a Republican Candidate would be offered 72 hours of total commercial air time then the Democratic, Green, Peace & Freedom, and all the rest would get exactly the same quantity of time at no charge at all. If the Dems are allowed 700 airings of a given commercial the others would get the same. This would without campaign reform level the playing field at least some more than what we have now.

As far as passing any kind of tax against the ultra rich even having a discussion about it is a total waste of time.

Talk about something you have the ability to do, not about something that has no possibility of becoming reality.

 

[B_New End]

Kill the rich, and sell their blood to blood banks to help our debt. Oh wait, our debts are to the rich. Ok, kill the rich, sell their blood to blood banks, and party with the money.

also, take all their jewelry and cars and houses, break them down and use the materials to make a giant monument to the victims of 9/11. USA! USA! USA!

If you really feel this way, then why not move to France? The women are hot, the beaches are awesome, the food is exquisite, the healthcare is free and the highest tax bracket is hit with a rate of about 75%. And there, they actually do pay for services with income tax- unlike in the US where ALL of it goes towards paying interest on the nation's accumulated debt. So, you'd be in socialist heaven and the government is much more honest to boot. Any objections (other than having to parle Francais)?

Don't forget their history of slaughtering their rich. that alone should make anyone want to move to france.

 

[helgaleena]

Kill the rich, and sell their blood to blood banks to help our debt. Oh wait, our debts are to the rich. Ok, kill the rich, sell their blood to blood banks, and party with the money.

also, take all their jewelry and cars and houses, break them down and use the materials to make a giant monument to the victims of 9/11. USA! USA! USA!



Don't forget their history of slaughtering their rich. that alone should make anyone want to move to france.

Alas, that was two hundred years ago. In WW2 they exported Jews just like all the other conquered nations, without regard to income.

I'm with FuzzyKen on this one. France is not any better than elsewhere for this parameter.

 

[Drifterwood]

Yes, wealthy people paying a bottom-line tax rate of about 50% sounds good to me. If this was the true tax rate paid by the wealthy here in America, that would represent more than a tripling of the amount of taxes paid by many of them. Here in America, tax rates start at 33% or whatever it is right now for the wealthy, and they go down from there. Most wealthy Americans naturally don't even pay income taxes because the govt literally considers them unemployed (but not looking, thus they don't count according to the BLS' politically manipulated statistics). Most wealthy Americans get all of their income from investments so they pay only a 15% tax rate (or less).

Here in the USA, this is resulting in a society rapidly careening towards insolvency, as more and more is hoarded at the top, and less and less is left to be shared among a steadily growing population.



But the question remains, at that rate are your society's collective needs being met and is the govt's books fiscally sound? If the answer is no to either, then clearly the issue needs to be looked at. We can't legislate away need. Need can only be neglected. If funding is cut, then society's standard of living declines, so that the rich can maintain theirs. That might work for a few years, but not for long.

Point being, if you think the current social/political/economic structure of American society is sustainable, you're insane. hell, look at the problems you're having in the UK, and you're waaay better off than we are in many ways on this issue.

I agree with Fuzzy Ken about the super rich. They can pretty much do what they like where they like.

I think that there is a perspective issue when looking up the wealth ladder. The temptation is to think that someone earning twice as much as you is incredibly rich. If you consider that in the UK they are having half taken by the government, then the reality is that you have to earn a lot to afford a big house, private schooling etc etc.. My guess would be that you have to earn over $350K a year in the UK to be rich there. Below that, you are different levels of well of depending upon where you live and what lifestyle choices you have made.

I am surprised that the US only takes 15% on unearned income through capital gains. On the other hand is does make you globally competitive in attracting wealth and investment. This is the big question for Government, the balance between low tax to attract and encourage enterprise, and enough money to fund social and political needs. In the UK the attraction for entrepneurs is an allowance of £10M capital gains at a low rate on the sale of businesses that they have developed. Subsequent earnings on those assets are charged at the full rate, which is why many who have "made it", then fuck off with their money.

I would guess that the solution is somewhere between our two systems. We have too much reliance on the public sector. It is a massive and hungry monopoly, and like every monopoly that has ever existed, it does not deliver value for money and the quality of the services are at best erratic.

Finally, I do have some sympathy for the middle earners, who are the bulk of the tax cow whilst the very rich and the corporations get away with avoiding much of their tax responsibility. I read that 33% of US coporate profit is "offshore". If this were taxed, you could clear your defecit and fund the social programmes that you don't have and we do in Europe.

 

[B_Hung Jon]

We love rich people here in America because we all believe in the "American Dream".

"Someday I too, even though I have no education and work at MikeyDs, will become super rich and not have to pay taxes!" Cliff Palin, Todd's younger brother

 

[faceking]

Most Americans are against same-sex marriage...

Most Americans say tax rich to balance budget






Full article here...
Most Americans say tax rich to balance budget: poll - Yahoo! News

 

[faceking]

By the way, the rich are already paying MUCH MORE than their fair share.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Most Americans are against same-sex marriage...

Stay on topic, troll.

 

[faceking]

When will you ppl get it thru your fucking heads...

It's not a revenue problem (tax more), it's a spending problem (big gov't and antiquated and inefficient programs/agencies).

Democrats and even many Republicans are like spoiled college children running credit cards up, and then asking daddy for more cash.... and complaining "it's not fair".

 

[B_New End]

When will Americans get it? Money is an illusion built on traditions and nothing more. Bankers, insurance agencies and other financial industries are nothing more than parasites, that if wiped off the face of the planet, would not lower the standard of living one bit, in fact, after dividing up their stuff, and pissing on their graves, would actually raise the standard of living.

Bullets and bombs can easily solve our debt problems. Raise the hammer and sickle and watch the cock-a-roaches run. Smash and slash, baby!

 

[Speculator]

When will Americans get it? Money is an illusion built on traditions and nothing more. Bankers, insurance agencies and other financial industries are nothing more than parasites, that if wiped off the face of the planet, would not lower the standard of living one bit, in fact, after dividing up their stuff, and pissing on their graves, would actually raise the standard of living.

Bullets and bombs can easily solve our debt problems. Raise the hammer and sickle and watch the cock-a-roaches run. Smash and slash, baby!

Stick to World of Warcraft, your juvenile opinions aren't adding any value here.

 

[D_stryhtfg]

I prefer to stay here and help set shit straight.

Based on your avatar...you are not the solution....just part of the problem.

The current administration is infected with a disease that makes them spend FAR more money than they have. The fact that taxes are too low is not the problem...it's the spending.

All of these handouts have got to stop. It's an unsustainable path.

Of course, on the campagin trail P-BO said that he wouldn't have pork barrel spending, blah, blah, blah.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Based on your avatar...you are not the solution....just part of the problem.

The current administration is infected with a disease that makes them spend FAR more money than they have. The fact that taxes are too low is not the problem...it's the spending.

All of these handouts have got to stop. It's an unsustainable path.

Of course, on the campagin trail P-BO said that he wouldn't have pork barrel spending, blah, blah, blah.

Actually, it's both. A financial system needs to properly balance taxation with spending in order to balance a budget. Certain types of spending are necessary to maintain state & federal infrastructure. These things cannot be "cut" for the sake of saving money, because it ultimately generates more financial losses over time. Also, you can't just continually lower taxes on everyone and not try to make up for the loss of financial revenue generated from it some place else. Sadly, many people (especially several of our blind ideologues on the right) don't understand this. Being so hell bent on thinking everyone wants to take something away from them, they'll regurgitate the rhetoric of the filthy rich about being taxed too much or government doing too much as if saying all of this will somehow affect their bottom line.

However, if you want to talk "handouts" then look no further than the people in the top 2%. Not only do they benefit from the decades of deregulation, but they do little to nothing to stimulate our economy. Unlike those on the lower end of the financial spectrum who collectively spend more of their own money (earned or gained through federal programs), the top money earners horde most of theirs away. Then they create jobs overseas (instead of our country) in an attempt to horde away even more money, making it more difficult for everyone else to survive. And the cycle of societal poverty continues. But hey... as long as your tax rate is lower come April 15th, right?

Gee, hasn't anyone here played a game of Sim City before? :biggrin: