Multiculturalism Failure or Political Profiling?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Rosalind Mussell, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. D_Rosalind Mussell

    D_Rosalind Mussell New Member

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    After reading this article, I'm a bit confused and hoping that those members from the UK can chime in on this one. (Please pardon my complete ignorance of politics in the UK.)

    Article: BBC News - State multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron

    I'll be honest, I'm not really sure what to think of this. What I get out of this is that he believes too much "live and let live" has led to extremism and the solution is to create a society where the Islamic people will want to mainstream into the culture. Personally, I find this to be a disturbing trend among politicians (see Angela Merkel) but I don't live in Europe and do not understand the cultural intricacies.

    IMHO, his ideas not only appear to be mutually exclusive concepts, but the fruit of misguided targeting on Mr. Cameron's part. On one hand he states that he wants to create a culturally friendly society that is attractive to Muslims, yet on the other he wants assimilation from them. Out of curiosity regarding his implied opinion about links between segregated Muslim communities in the UK and extreme Islamic terrorism I did some research to try and corroborate this. I didn't find anything.

    What do you think of this? Has multiculturalism failed, or is Mr. Cameron simply profiling the Muslim community for his own political agenda? Is there any merit to what Cameron and Berkel have espoused?

    for those interested in reading the speech in it's entirety, click here...and no, I didn't read it, it's too early in the morning for me. :)
     
    #1 D_Rosalind Mussell, Feb 6, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011
  2. Drifterwood

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    I should first say that I haven't been in the UK for a nearly a month and you do get out of touch very quickly.

    As far as I understand what is going on, it has been uncovered that many Islamic Saturday Schools have been teaching Sharia Law. This has included what we would consider, anti semitism, homophobia and barbarity, i.e. text books showing children as young as six the explicit details of amputations as Sharia punishments.

    Our previous Labour Government believed in a form of multiculturalism that would allow all cultures to maintain their individual values irrespective of how that sat with the UK culture.

    What I am reading is that Mr. Cameron's Conservative (Lib Pact) Government will not tolerate the continuance of practices that are not "acceptable" to British culture. A clture that he says is tolerant, and I would agree with that, but he doesn't want to tolerate the intolerant.

    The US is big enough to lose the Amish and others who wish to live by their own rules, indeed, this freedom is part of your founding culture. The UK is a small crowded place and "minority" groups are actually very large parts of many towns. Our Metropolitan towns have a level of autonomy similar to those of your federated States. So I imagine that they are concerned that we could see sharia voted into effect by way of local bye laws. He would say that he wants an integrated multi cultural society.
     
  3. D_Rosalind Mussell

    D_Rosalind Mussell New Member

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    Thank you, I understand this much better now. I can see why they would have a concern about that and therefore take measures. Personally, I find it revolting to teach children intolerance and prejudice through any means, I truly feel sad for them. There's no excuse to poison a child's mind with hate, fear and violence.
     
  4. Jason

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    Drifterwood has highlighted one area of the issue. There are many others.

    There are also issues in our society around the unequal application of concepts of racism. It is possible for people belonging to minority groups in the UK to promote racist ideas directed against the white community with little censure (from society, from the courts). The idea (in society, in law) is that the majority group should be tolerant.

    We have issues around unequal interpretations of the sensitivities of faith and culture. For example our media does satirise Christianity and Jesus Christ. However any satire of Islam or Mohammed creates such a storm that no media will do it (think of the Danish cartoons a few years back). We have employers and universities rescheduling the working day to accommodate the prayer times required by Moslems, yet Christian groups have failed to get a similar accommodation.

    We have issues around application of Sharia law. The reality is already that some Islamic community groups in the UK do have "courts" and do apply some aspects of Sharia law. In theory there can only be the national legal systems in the UK, but in practice we are tolarating in the UK the establishment of unofficial courts and the application of law sometimes completely at variance with our own.

    Multiculturalism in the UK has often seemed to be no more than the tolerance of non-integration. In theory this applies to any culture, but in practice the problems are almost all around Islam.
     
  5. Drifterwood

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    Not quite so b & W IMO, Jase. Any intolerance is now not to be so easily tolerated, and that will include people like the EDF and the BNP. These are politicised white racist groups for anyone not in the UK.

    Secondly, the issue is not Islam, it is radicalised muslims. Isn't that exactly what Cameron tried to emphasize. I see he failed. Same with the racists, it's racists not white british people. Do as you would be done to, my friend.
     
  6. eurotop40

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    I still think we were right voting agains more minarets...
     
  7. TomCat84

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    HA. Like banning minarets is going to stop Muslims from radicalizing. That was one of the stupidest laws I've ever seen passed. I bet it ends up having the opposite effect: it will radicalize more Muslims than if you had allowed more.
     
  8. eurotop40

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    Whatever you do they always be radicalized because it it the essence of their religion.
     
  9. alx

    alx
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    Yes multiculturalism failed many years ago, actually thinking about it the UK has never successfully been a true multicultural society.
     
  10. Drifterwood

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    I would have expected better from you, Euro.

    This is the easy anti Islamic line and it is completely false and ignorant of the religion.
     
  11. Jason

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    This is the Cameron line.

    What I'm not clear about is what percentage of mosques in the UK are preaching and teaching radicalised Islam. And I don't think anyone has this figure.

    Within a UK university setting many faiths will avail themselves of university facilities. Many Christian groups are to be found, all open to people coming along to their meetings and religious services. Many other faiths are similarly open - certainly including Indian-origin faiths (well represented in UK universities). But Moslem groups generally exclude non-moslems. Universities have a real problem where they don't know what is going on in meetings on premises that belong to the universities. There is a suspicion that many university moslem groups may be radical.

    Yes the problem is radicalised Islam - but a part of the problem is that we cannot distinguish properly between radicalised and non-radicalised.
     
  12. Pendlum

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    I'm curious why always seem to spell it moslem?
     
  13. Drifterwood

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    Then I suggest you find out PDQ. Probably not good PR for the college to be held up as fostering terrorism.
     
  14. Bbucko

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    Honestly, it's the way I'd learned how to spell it. The "u" is an odd, relatively new thing.

    That's such an odd thing to say, considering how, as capitol of the Empire, London was arguably the most cosmopolitan place on Earth. One cannot be monocultural and an empire: it just doesn't work that way.
     
  15. Gillette

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    Hello?

    Saturday is the Jewish Shabbat.
    Sunday is the Christian Sabbath.

    I don't think the days of the Western world's weekend were picked at random.
     
  16. TomCat84

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    What's with the xenophobic Europeans?
     
  17. B_crackoff

    B_crackoff New Member

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    Well, it is their choice, & it is purely subjective as to what is radical Islam to adherents, or outsiders anyway.

    DW - being anti Islam isn't racist, nor would being anti any belief system. That said, of course in the PC UK, any single thing can be considered racist, as the law explicitly provides for it to be a subjective, even remote, personal experience:wink:.

    Apparently,the EDL have a Jewish & Gay wing too!

    BBC News - English Defence League searches for foreign allies

    Trevor Phillips, head of the Equal Opportunities Commission, said "multiculturalism has failed" & is of another era 7 years ago!

    Multiculturalism has failed but tolerance can save us | Michael Portillo - Times Online

    Which is when they bought in diversity!:cool:

    The problem Cameron specifically addressed ,was the fact that tolerance seemed to be a one way street - from the majority to the minority - the fact that a climate of fear (of being called racist) prevented proper action being taken among various communities when crimes & disturbances had occurred. He also mentioned the huge amounts of cash given kow towing to various immigrant, & ethnic, self appointed organisations, that resulted in no improvement at all.

    When anyone immigrates, it's because their experience in that country isn't that great, & they believe that another country offers better hope.

    Everyone is meant to ultimately assimilate & add to the native culture - ghettoisation, a separate law, & sending your kids back to the old country to marry first cousins who can't speak the language, when there are plenty of suitable canditates domestically - is clearly part of trying to establish a separate identity rather than achieve those aims.
     
  18. Drifterwood

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    Did I say it was?

    I was making the point that the BNP and EDL are racists and will not be tolerated so easily, as they also live on the same one way street. Cameron is putting them in the same bag as the radicalised muslims.
     
  19. eurotop40

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    As long as the moslem moderate majority behaves towards the Islamists like the majority of Sicilians towards the mafia this will always be the attitude of the west towards Islam. Or would you like to live in a country that applies Sharia?
     
  20. Thirdlegproduction

    Thirdlegproduction Formerly WhiteMonst3r
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    I will just ignore what eurotop is saying from now on.

    Muslims have lived among us for centuries never to cause a problem only after the events of 9-11 they were labeled as extremists and dangerous for political gains.

    So no multiculturism hasn't failed but it has gotten a big blow.
     
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