My Discrimination Against Gays

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by B_black10inches, May 15, 2005.

  1. B_black10inches

    B_black10inches New Member

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    I know this might be a discriminating topic to some guys & women on this site. I just want to express some things I've been thinking about lately & I'd like to hear what other people here think.

    I consider myself straight but I've had some sexual experiences with guys on the DL. These have been oral sex with the guys giving me head. I've really enjoyed these experiences & the time with these guys. But none of these guys consider themselves gay.

    So here's my take on my own prejudices. I wonder why so many gays act weird? What I mean by that is that they are mean & caddy toward each other. And so many gays who are effeminate,try to act all studly. I don't think there's anything wrong with being effeminate,but why try to be something you're not? They can't bring it off because they have lisping voices or exaggerated gestures. There's another thing I don't understand & that is, if gay guys want to have sex or relationships with masculine guys, then why would they want to have sex with each other? What I mean by this is why would an effeminate guy want to have sex with another effeminate guy?

    So I'm writing this to understand gay people. It's hard for me to think of myself as gay because I don't have any of the chararcteristics of gays. At the same time I like having sex with guys sometimes. I realize I may be biseuxal so that's cool too. Any ideas?
     
  2. Imported

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    carolinacurious:
    Why are some gays "mean" and ""catty" to each other?

    I imagine that there could be many explanations for this, for some it seems to come natural, some seem to be emulating favorite characters from novels or movies, some seem to think it's what you "have" to do. I don't think I would be too out of line if I said that the older you are and gay then probably the more shit you've had to deal with and to build up defenses to. Some want nothing or little to do with it, and sometimes it's just fun.

    Ok, first off, some effeminate guys want to have sex with other effeminate guys.

    I hope this doesn't bring on a total shitstorm but let me reword one sentence for you (and I'm not saying tht gays are women).

    "if women want to have sex or relationships with masculine guys, then why would they want to hang with each other?"

    Perhaps they have more in common, maybe all relationships don't revolve around sex.

    Ok, let's look at where your stereotype rings true. There are some effeminate gays who do want to have sex with masculine men. Some might say that the masculine man interested in gay sex is in demand. Does that explain why some gay men might try to come across as more masculine than they are?

    Some guys may be effeminate but not particularly happy with that. Some guys, gay and straight, like to pretend to be something that they are not.
     
  3. hung9mike

    hung9mike Well-Known Member

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    Well, the term gay is often used to describe the cultural and social aspects of homosexuality, such as the behavior you mention, as opposed to homosexual, which only refers to sexual practice. Therefore, it's possible that someone could be homosexual but not gay. In principle this also means someone could be gay and heterosexual (which, I believe, is often referred to as being metrosexual). But honestly, trying to make a distinction between gay and homosexual sounds like playing games with language. Most people would use the two terms interchangeably. On the other hand, as far as I can tell, the terms straight and heterosexual are absolutely interchangeable. So if you're having sex with persons of your own sex some of the time, you aren't straight, by definition. You fall somewhere along the continuum of sexuality between purely heterosexual and purely homosexual, like many people do.

    As to why many gays act, well, gay-- you might as well as why rednecks have shotgun racks in the rear windows of their pickup trucks. Or why some groups seem to be fascinated with cars that bounce. Or any number of things you might associate to any group. It might not make any sense to you, but it's culturally acceptable to... and even expected of... them. And it's a way of affirming their identity within the group they feel they fit into.

    Just my 2 cents-- hope this provides some insight!
     
  4. britlover

    britlover New Member

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    I'm gay, and feel that I don't act in that stereotypical effeminate way. I'm just 'me', in touch with both my masculine and feminine sides. I don't walk around saying 'sister' or 'girlfriend' to my male buddies (or female buddies, for that matter).

    In a way, a lot of straight men are straight-jacketed by what they feel is the proper masculine behaviour. Anybody who is comfortable with who they are should be able to act in a way that is appropriate for them. Whilst there are the gays who do want to act the sissy, there are a lot who most certainly don't.

    When one sees only the stereotype (eg. Carlson from Queer Eye), then of course they're going to think that all gay men want to be nellies.

    The truth is, we want emotional and sexual relationships with other men.
     
  5. steve319

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    I appreciate what you have to say there, hung9mike (we need to hear more of your wisdom, IMHO). I think those very complications underline part of the problem with the terms and our usage of them (worse still, our tendency to label ourselves and others with them).

    When I first read your topic, black10inches, I have to admit that the smart ass in me thought "well enjoying having sex with other men is probably the main characteristic of 'gays'," but then I thought better of it. (I'm too mean spirited and cranky tonight to do anyone any good, so please forgive me that impulsive thought--perhaps I shouldn't post at all tonight) Your questioning seems to come from a genuine desire to understand yourself and others.

    Having sex with someone of the same gender is certainly a homosexual act, but doesn't necessarily mean that a person has a homosexual orientation, right? Life just isn't that simple for a lot of us. As I understand it, many people experience genuine sexual attraction to both genders and follow through on that attraction. It sounds like you might have a degree of attraction to both men and women (would that be correct to assume?). All that means is that you have enjoyed both heterosexual and homosexual relations and may continue to do so throughout your life. And that's OK, right?

    As for the stereotypical behaviors, I think CC has answered that much more thoughtfully than I could tonight!

    We're all on a path of personal growth and understanding, black10, and none of us has all the answers. The best we can do is share our own experiences and listen to those of others with understanding and compassion.
     
  6. Pappy

    Pappy Member

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    Having sex on the "Down Low", to my understanding, is mostly a "black" thing. The men don't consider sex with a guy sex.

    And what exactly are "Gay Characteristics"??
     
  7. hung9mike

    hung9mike Well-Known Member

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    Whew, Steve, that's a tough question. That's one I've wondered about for a long time. I always knew I was interested in guys, but I didn't had sex with them until I was in my early 30s. I did have sex with women until that time. So was I homosexual before I had sex with a guy?

    I don't know of any terms that uniquely describe sexual orientation. Again, we can describe people as being homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual, but I think, strictly speaking, all of these terms describe sexual practice. I think for a lot of people, their orientation and their practice don't go hand-in-hand. So yes, I think someone could have a homosexual experience without being homosexual in orientation-- although given that society frowns on homosexuality, I think it's more likely that person falls somewhere on the continuum of sexuality somewhere between homosexual and heterosexual in orientation, just much closer to the heterosexual end of the scale. I had heterosexual experiences although I was homosexual in orientation-- but I only did it because I was horny and that's what society expected me to do. :D

    <!--QuoteBegin-Pappy
    @May 15 2005, 10:24 PM
    Having sex on the "Down Low", to my understanding, is mostly a "black" thing. The men don&#39;t consider sex with a guy sex.
    [post=311515]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/quote]I think, Pappy, that the implication of a man having sex on the "down low" means that he is having sex with other men behind the back of his wife or girlfriend. I don&#39;t think it&#39;s relevant whether or not the man or his partners believe it constitutes sexual activity. But I could be wrong about this&#33;
     
  8. B_hungrick

    B_hungrick New Member

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    I think I understand where black10 is coming from on this topic. As much as many straight guys want to be open-minded, most of us remember how bad the term "gay" was in grammer school & high school. We didn&#39;t want to be called gay. So I know it took time for me to understand what it was to be gay by actually meeting guys who identified as gay when I was in college. My experience as friends with gay guys has been good. I also know that gay guys act different in their own groups so maybe I don&#39;t see what black10 is describing here.

    My girlfriend tells me that gay guys are attracted to me so they act pretty nice to me. Sometimes though I don&#39;t really understand some of the camp humor. It&#39;s like I&#39;m clueless. I laugh, but for all I know they may be just making fun of me. I know I have feelings like this around a group of women if I&#39;m the only guy. It&#39;s my insecurity I guess.

    As far as your having sex with guys,black10, I can see where it&#39;s just pleasure & if it&#39;s cool with both parties, then more power to you. I don&#39;t think you have to be a part of a gay scene to just be yourself. If gays make you feel uncomfortable then maybe it&#39;s a way for you to learn something about yourself. :D
     
  9. jonb

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    It&#39;s not mostly a "black thing", but Oprah&#39;s made it mostly a "black thing". LOL

    On an aside, many gay Indians (who fit the more conventional meaning of "gay"; for a lot of plains tribes, incidental bisexuality wasn&#39;t much of a deal, and transvestites actually married members of the same sex, but only the transvestite was generally seen as different) prefer "gay" to "homosexual" because they argue "homosexual" implies that there&#39;s nothing beyond sexuality to them.
     
  10. jonb

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    Oh, more on-topic, some gay men are catty to each other because every gay man is a potential sexual partner and a potential sexual rival.

    As for effeminacy, not all gay men are effeminate. Some do play up on stereotypes as a joke, though.
     
  11. B_hungrick

    B_hungrick New Member

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    Fuck,jonb, I just got that right now, about how every gay man is a potential sexual partner & also a rival. Now that&#39;s the most enlightening thing about gay guys I&#39;ve ever heard. It makes so much sense to me. Thanx for the insight&#33;

    This site rocks.
     
  12. blackwood

    blackwood New Member

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    To me "labeling" and "expected behavior" are probably the two most significant factors in determining just who/what someone "is".

    My thoughts..............

    Obvious is the difference between men and women, how men react to other men, how men react to women, and viceversa how women react/relate to other women, and how women react/relate to men.

    Is it the idea that women are/were not only tought to be shy or submissive wile men are more directed to taking/being in charge.........

    The maculine powerful, if only in size alone, imposing himself over the form of a tiney, wanting to be held, and engulfed by his presence female, in charge and taking both to rapture and sexual gratification would be the expected natural result of the encounter.

    But......................

    When left to our own interpretations, what role play is determined appropriate? Two men, quite possibly of the same physical stature, both wanting sexual gratification "with or from" the other how must they present themselves?

    I may be completely WRONG, but to each male, the only really important outcome of the encounter is that hot tangy spewing forth of nature&#39;s nectatar and all associated sensations.

    But beyond this, I think that homosexuality actually combine the masculinity with feminity in that the male, while capable of "being incharge" REALLY wants to be guided and taken care of (normally associated with true feminity) and made love to.

    The "tough guy attitude" as well as "flittinering and bouncing about" are over-reaction to cover the real need of the male "TO BE TAKEN CARE OF".

    I consider myself to not be gay, there have however been encounters which definitely were homosexual, yet .......................

    Please take this as MY obervation and NOT a put down.

    My motto from the get go has been: Sex, Plain, Raw, Simple, Mind Blowing Sexual Release, and satisfaction With guy or gal, Just do it&#33; (Legally Ofcourse&#33;&#33;)

    Pic removed

    blackwood, Hope I made sense...............
     
  13. Lex

    Lex
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    Here is a great quote I saw on a couple&#39;s profile on BMB:

    This is for a young man who wrote us recently: STRAIGHT ACTING is to us a term of self loathing. Masculinity is not the province of straight men. We are men, we are gay. Being "out" should simply mean that you embrace your sexual orientation and are proud of who you are as a man. We don&#39;t mean this as a reprimand, but as encouragement. Don&#39;t be victim to unwitting homophobia.

    I&#39;m bi and I don&#39;t particularly like more feme guys--but hey--I don&#39;t have to date any of them if I don&#39;t wanna.
     
  14. B_HungSpermBoy

    B_HungSpermBoy New Member

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    Cool post. I was just thinking that it would be hard to tell who&#39;s gay or whatever by just looking at people. And maybe gay guys who are more fem are easier to pick out.
     
  15. naughty

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    Jonb,

    Though Oprah Winfrey definitely has a great influence over American perception due to her high visibility., the tern "on the down low" was first made widely known by a gay black writer by the name of E.Lynn Harris in the first of a series of books, entitled "The Invisible Life". I can remember back in the early 1980&#39;s having a man approach me in a bookstore telling me that all women of color in DC needed to read that book. After I read it, I never looked at most of the men I knew quite the same way again. Being in a field where I am surrounded by gay males I have and am noticing that sexual orientation is just one component of who these individuals. They are by no means monolithic.

    Naughty
     
  16. DC_DEEP

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    This is a great post, and some of the things I wonder about often. I apologize in advance for the rambling, but I should start by offering two explanatory items, then continuing.

    When I was in 5th grade, my teacher required all students to bring a pair of knitting needles and a skein of yarn to school. She taught us all, boys and girls, to knit. That&#39;s what we did the last 20 minutes of every school day. The 4th grade boys always dreaded being assigned to Ms Humphrey the next year, as there was a little teasing from the other 5th graders. But I discovered, to my amazement, that it was interesting; but best of all, it was very ZEN... the rhythm of the knitting itself was very relaxing. I still enjoy knitting.

    Around that same time, my Mom&#39;s side of the family had a reunion, and it was a big gathering. My aunt Gloria made home-made bread at one point. I had never had home-made, and it was the most wonderful smell, and the taste was incredible. I thought, "I gotta learn to do that." I still bake bread often.

    Knitting and baking are, in our society, generally considered to be "feminine" activities (odd that with very few exceptions, the most famous cooks are men.) With those two exceptions, even though I&#39;m gay, almost everything else I do is considered more on the "masculine" side. I figured out that I tend to enjoy working with my hands, being creative. I like camping, especially wilderness camping; I would rather rebuild an automobile engine than go shopping. I have done construction work. I have done landscaping (the heavy kind - retaining walls, sod...) I am a decorated veteran of the First Marine Division. I like to build and repair things. So my point is, I am mostly just a regular guy, who happens to be in love with another guy.

    My partner and I, on the sporadic occasions we go "out," usually go to less twink-oriented bars, but once or twice a year, we go to the more typically "gay" bar. He usually gets exasperated with me when I point out the fellows with the gay accent (lisp) and using the gay sign language (exaggerated, flapping gestures). I find it very unappealing, but I allow them the freedom to be raging queens if they choose to be so. How much of that is acquired behavior, and how much is innate? I can&#39;t answer that for sure, but I doubt the boys with the accent and the sign language "accidentally" got their eyebrows waxed. Many gay men (I can only speak for the Little Rock, AR and Washington, DC areas) for whatever reason, feel that conformity to a specific standard is essential to their existence. They feel compelled to wear certain clothing labels, drive only certain types of cars, and so on ad nauseum. As for the mean & catty behavior, I think it is tied in to the "compulsion to conform" idea, and that all boils down to low self-esteem. I truly feel sorry for them. They cannot raise their self-esteem, so they feel they have to minimize other people to feel better about themselves. I could be wrong, but I also think DL has something to do with this - men who want sex with men, but want to avoid the stigma of being labelled. I have always gone out of my way to avoid conformity for its own sake, but I have the confidence to be able to do that.
     
  17. Dr. Dilznick

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    LOL@ the term "straight" constantly being stretched to the motherfucking limit. If you can achieve and maintain an erection during intercourse with a man, let alone try to have sex with a man, how do you fit the description of straight? You&#39;re bisexual at the least.
     
  18. britlover

    britlover New Member

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    I think most people need a barometer of what is &#39;normal&#39;, so &#39;straight&#39; is a word that a lot of men (and women) cling to, to not have to justify their behaviour.
     
  19. blackwood

    blackwood New Member

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    LOL@ the term "straight" constantly being stretched to the motherfucking limit. If you can achieve and maintain an erection during intercourse with a man, let alone try to have sex with a man, how do you fit the description of straight? You&#39;re bisexual at the least.
    [post=311605]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]

    Dr. Dilznick,

    Are my thoughts about the issue completely out of the ball park?

    blackwood
     
  20. Dr. Dilznick

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    Dr. Dilznick,

    Are my thoughts about the issue completely out of the ball park?
    [post=311624]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]
    I&#39;ve never had a "homo moment" so I wouldn&#39;t know. I seriously doubt that most "straight" men experience them. I don&#39;t know, maybe I&#39;m just weird.

    A "convincing" transvestite with wide hips, a small waist, and a massive ass would probably get my dick hard, though. But they don&#39;t really exist.
     
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