My Discrimination Against Gays

ashlar

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Originally posted by mdvc149@Jun 17 2005, 11:03 AM

You're trying to understand all of human sexual behavior? um, check out--sigmund freud, his writings might help.
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Err I wouldnt reccoment Freud. He was a flake. He founded the feild of psychoanalytic therapy, but his ideas were all proven to be bullshit. The best modern reference for psychological disorders is the DSM .. I think they are on version "V" now. There are also numerous books on psychoanalysis and research on various topics out there, you just have to watch for the publishing dates and find things that are current. There are new discoveries in the feild of psychology every day.
 

jonb

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Actually, Freud just put ancient ideas into a scientific form; instead of superstition, Freud said the mind cannot generate random patterns. So total randomness (such as your dreams and slips of the tongue) will reveal what you really think, and you've even hid it from yourself. Projective tests, such as the Rorschach test, reverse this, of course, and in the end one's own dreams are also a Rorschach test.

And yeah, the whole Oedipal/Electra is bullshit, and penis envy/castration anxiety doesn't exist unless you've seen a member of the opposite sex naked. There are cultures where the latency stage doesn't exist. And I'm really concerned about Freud's particular interpretation of the primal scene, since there's really no reason for the child to assume his father's assaulting his mother. In fact, I seriously doubt all neuroses can be traced back to the primal scene, simply because there are too many neuroses which aren't even related to sex or parents. (In fact, as Freud's students studied non-Western cultures, they found no real correlation between neurosis and primal scene exposure in cases where the people in question lived in one-room homes or something similar.) Psych students these days only bring out Freud for dirty jokes.
 

ashlar

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Originally posted by jonb@Jun 18 2005, 04:38 PM
... snip

Psych students these days only bring out Freud for dirty jokes.
[post=321982]Quoted post[/post]​

Exactly. Thats what we did in my psychology classes anyways.
 

jonb

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But what do you expect when Freud tried to trace all mental illness back to sex. Not just sex, but a kid seeing his parents have sex.

The problem is, mental illnesses can be caused by a lot of things. If you're psychotic or have a mood disorder, that's brain chemistry. If you're phobic, that's most likely because of a bad experience with whatever causes you to go insane. Even the paraphile (fetishist) most likely has a non-sexual explanation for his peculiarities.
 

stimey

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Originally posted by black10inches@May 16 2005, 01:14 AM
I know this might be a discriminating topic to some guys & women on this site. I just want to express some things I've been thinking about lately & I'd like to hear what other people here think.

So here's my take on my own prejudices. I wonder why so many gays act weird? What I mean by that is that they are mean & caddy toward each other. And so many gays who are effeminate,try to act all studly. I don't think there's anything wrong with being effeminate,but why try to be something you're not? They can't bring it off because they have lisping voices or exaggerated gestures. There's another thing I don't understand & that is, if gay guys want to have sex or relationships with masculine guys, then why would they want to have sex with each other? What I mean by this is why would an effeminate guy want to have sex with another effeminate guy?


[post=311469]Quoted post[/post]​

Have you lost your mind? Make a 180 and think if somebody had asked if blacks had learned to steal when they were babies, never went down on women, always had big lips, why do they smell funny, do they always eat watermelon and fried chicken, do they all play basketball, they can't swim, they're all on welfare, etc. Sorry to become exercised here "bro", but when the majority of the country is prejudiced against you because of who you are try and be understanding. Alot of other people in this country are trying their best to understand our culture; without trying to categorize us. Just a suggestion, not a flame.

S
 

B_HungSpermBoy

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Originally posted by stimey+Jun 21 2005, 02:01 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stimey &#064; Jun 21 2005, 02:01 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-black10inches@May 16 2005, 01:14 AM
I know this might be a discriminating topic to some guys & women on this site. I just want to express some things I&#39;ve been thinking about lately & I&#39;d like to hear what other people here think.

So here&#39;s my take on my own prejudices. I wonder why so many gays act weird? What I mean by that is that they are mean & caddy toward each other. And so many gays who are effeminate,try to act all studly. I don&#39;t think there&#39;s anything wrong with being effeminate,but why try to be something you&#39;re not? They can&#39;t bring it off because they have lisping voices or exaggerated gestures. There&#39;s another thing I don&#39;t understand & that is, if gay guys want to have sex or relationships with masculine guys, then why would they want to have sex with each other? What I mean by this is why would an effeminate guy want to have sex with another effeminate guy?


[post=311469]Quoted post[/post]​

Have you lost your mind? Make a 180 and think if somebody had asked if blacks had learned to steal when they were babies, never went down on women, always had big lips, why do they smell funny, do they always eat watermelon and fried chicken, do they all play basketball, they can&#39;t swim, they&#39;re all on welfare, etc. Sorry to become exercised here "bro", but when the majority of the country is prejudiced against you because of who you are try and be understanding. Alot of other people in this country are trying their best to understand our culture; without trying to categorize us. Just a suggestion, not a flame.

S
[post=322755]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]


Hey I don&#39;t think that Black10 is saying that he hates gay people. I think he&#39;s just describing what he&#39;s experienced. I know his prejudices are common in some communities. I think this is just the truth. I don&#39;t agree with it but I know it exists everywhere. I don&#39;t think it helps to condemn him or other people who don&#39;t understand. I know I am prejudiced against some groups. I don&#39;t like that I am & I try to be more open-minded.
 

husky14620

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There seems to still be some "connection" between effeminate and Gay. True, some Gay men are effeminate, and many more affect feminine behavior. Others over-compensate trying to eliminate all feminine mannerisms, i.e. Leather Bears.
But straight men can be effeminate as well.

Point> Mannerisms do not define sexuality.

There also seems to be some kind of disconnect between Gay and homosexual. True, Gay has lifestyle implications, and often, political ones as well. But the principle attribute of Gay people (and I am politically incorrectly including Lesbians in my definition of Gay) is their homosexuality. While we here (and many over-compensators) may quible about the difference between Gay and Homosexual, the majority of society sees no difference.

Point> Mannerisms do not define Gay to most of society.

The biggest problem Black10 seems to be having is getting beyond the societal stigma against homosexuals. In the current environment of puritanism, "conservatism", and "family values", such stigma is being intensified. Add this to the traditional role definitions and "masculine" stereotypes, it is no wonder Black10 is questioning. The additional influence of "the church" in the black community, even among non-religious people makes this even more difficult.


As a Gay white male who can "pass", I commend Black10 for questioning his homophobia and examining it. I came out at an early age, foolishly with "no fear", in an era when it could easily keep one from getting a job, an education, and "fag bashing" was much more common (not that it is that un-common now). And I didn&#39;t have to deal with the spectre of AIDS/HIV. Even so, it was difficult for me (and many of my generation) to accept our homosexual tendencies, let alone come out. I&#39;m not patting myself on the back, just trying to tell it like it is.

In a cultural community where masculinity is paramount, homosexuality is the ultimate betrayal, of others and self. Bisexuals might as well be fully homosexual for all the culture cares. And the easiest way to cover your own insecurity is to attack someone who is more vulnerable. The "queen" is not only in danger of being fag bashed by the straights, but also by the over compensators (the "butch" Gay man), because he/she is an easy target, and makes for easy cover.

Black10, your discomfort is not unusual, even for someone who may be homosexual or bisexual. As you become more comfortable with yourself, you may find your discomfort with others to be less. I know that I did. I once dispised "queens" for making us look bad. But as I grew more accepting of myself, I realized I was demonizing the parts of me I wasn&#39;t comfortable about. And I learned that we all have a great debt to the "queens", who were the first ones to stand up and fight back at Stonewall. The ones who can&#39;t hide, who can&#39;t "pass", are the ones who have nothing to lose. History tells us that even in the 60&#39;s and 70&#39;s, there were Blacks / African Americans of light skin tone who "passed" as "white" if they could. Today, they are looked upon with scorn. For the Gay community, that day may be a long while off.

Keep questioning your behavior and attitudes Black10. At least as long as you do that you are on a path of growth and hopefully understanding. That is a lot for anyone to accomplish.
 

dufus

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Originally posted by black10inches@May 16 2005, 01:14 AM
So I&#39;m writing this to understand gay people. It&#39;s hard for me to think of myself as gay because I don&#39;t have any of the chararcteristics of gays. At the same time I like having sex with guys sometimes. I realize I may be biseuxal so that&#39;s cool too. Any ideas?

I guess I never knew I had a "characteristic." I have never been accused of being effiminate. I have done my share of body building and I look more masculine for my age than the straight, fat slob males that I work with. To my knowledge, no one who doesn&#39;t know has ever suspected that I am gay. I consider myself a male, not a gay male, not a female "wannabe," not a female impersonator, but just a male. I have never wanted to be perceived as a female and I am offended by other males who dress in drag or act effiminate. I really feel offended when others think that gay men secretly want to be females. Enough said, end rant. By the way, DMW is my role model on this board. He is masculine, handsome, intelligent, you name it. The things that he has said that he has done are the things of my dreams. Thanks DMW for all of your posts, and don&#39;t stop. I am sure you are a role model for many others who lurk here, whether they post or not.
 

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I don&#39;t "come off" gay. I&#39;m a Man who just happens to prefere fuckin&#39; and suckin&#39; with Men. Drag queens and fems don&#39;t "offend" me............they just don&#39;t appeal to me. Others are. I guess it just comes down to compartmentalizing.....I refuse to be defined by others.
 

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I like the way you put that. If gay guys were all outright flaming, what would be the point? Gay men are attracted to men.
 

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Originally posted by jonb@Jul 2 2005, 10:12 PM
I like the way you put that. If gay guys were all outright flaming, what would be the point? Gay men are attracted to men.
[post=326183]Quoted post[/post]​


Who&#39;s that in response to?
 

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Originally posted by dufus@Jul 2 2005, 04:57 PM
By the way, DMW is my role model on this board. He is masculine, handsome, intelligent, you name it. The things that he has said that he has done are the things of my dreams. Thanks DMW for all of your posts, and don&#39;t stop. I am sure you are a role model for many others who lurk here, whether they post or not.
[post=326105]Quoted post[/post]​

Aw, thanks, dufus&#33; :blush: I don&#39;t really think of myself as a gay man: I&#39;m a man that happens to be gay. There&#39;s a distinction that I don&#39;t want to lose. I&#39;m a man, first and foremost. The fact that I&#39;m gay is incidental. I have nothing against drag queens, transsexuals or nelly gay men: I have friends that fit into all of those categories. Some men are sexually attracted to those types; I&#39;m not. I don&#39;t need to fit a stereotype in order to be attracted (and hopefully, attractive) to men. Luckily, people are starting to realise that their gay brothers and sisters can look and act just like anyone else.
 

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Originally posted by jonb@Jul 3 2005, 07:39 PM
KinkGuy.
[post=326408]Quoted post[/post]​


Oh. Cause like, and I dunno if I&#39;ve ever said it in this topic, but I always say "if I wanted a girlfriend, I wouldn&#39;t be gay" when talking about totally fem guys.