My farewell

[13788]

Javierdude22: Dee, I  think you're right. In many respects we all have pretty 'sick' fantasies, myself included. We always think more extreme within the confines of our head than in real life.

And like I mentioned, I do take offense in some acts, and even the words describing them. I know it might not be illegal, but you do have to understand that for some people the line to be crossed is thinner than for others. If that was a good analogy  8).

Look what kind aches me is this: what do we, or what does anyone, have to lose with one or two stories less about childporn or bestiality? Nothing IMO. But still, many people, many regular poster dó take serious offence because the line between legality in law but illegality in morality, is too thin. Again, i'm glad a slick layer could tell Mark exactly what was allowed and what not, but sometimes something is just the right thing to do. And its not like anyone is asking to censure words like 'fuck' or sexual immoral acts, óther than the very very extreme ones like bestiality and child porn.

And now, because of some idiot poster with issues, who decided to touch and feel where our boundaries lay, a few dear posters left and maybe more to come.

And I do not think it is 'good riddance' (I felt like mentioning this) because although Mark made the board, the posters máke the board. You guys celebrated 40000 posts recently...but let me tell you that the top 25 posters took care of 40% of those posts, and maybe 90% of the content of this board. A few of those left now, and I do not think it is giving them credit, with all the time they hav put into this board as well, and the writing they did, to say 'good riddance'. Its an easy way down as much as up.

 

[13788]

mindseye: [quote author=huge_cock_have_pic link=board=99;num=1068001982;start=20#39 date=11/05/03 at 11:38:01] Not all the time but Lolita can very well be classified as child pornography under US law.

[/quote]

Maybe you are an attorney, but if you were, you should know better.

Here's a link to the relevant US Code: You can view the entire section yourself, but here's the definition of child pornography as defined in federal law:

(8) ''child pornography'' means any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where -

• (A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;
  
• (B) such visual depiction is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;
  
• (C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or
  
• (D) such visual depiction is advertised, promoted, presented, described, or distributed in such a manner that conveys the impression that the material is or contains a visual depiction of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct.
  

 

[13788]

huge_cock_have_pic: Thank you for the attempt at a correction, but US law also includes, the 50 states as well as local ordinances. Much of the legal debate in pornography and free speech revolves around state and local statutory law.

 

[13788]

Tender: whoever leaves--that is their choice.
i may leave, may not and may use both to a degree.
HUMONGOUS was just a pain in the rear as far as his nasty posts.
that said, so was a few others, including sudas, ect and no one ever said anything about that?
so im not sure if its just that now we have had the limit or what.
but i do beleive in free speech.
not however when that free speech takes away the freedom of someone else.
child porn or whatever fancy name you call it is WRONG period, whether it is legal or not.
as is incest, and the nasty animal stuff.

but all in all there are lots of things here and there i do not agree with. i choose to ignore what i dont want to see. no one MAKES me read anything.
i rarely visit the ficticious stories category and thats why.

as for Max, he should have known there is an ignore function on PM so i dont know why he allowed HUMONGOUS to keep sending him messages ???

i think the ilegal and otherwise EXTREMELY tacky trash should not be allowed. on the other hand, i can see that it is personal choice, and one can pick and choose what they want to read or participate in.

so like i said, depending on what happens here in the aftermath, i may leave as well, not sure.

but i too would like to hear from Mark as to why he allows some of this.

Tender

 

[jay_too]

To those who have left, I wish a belated, "Hurry back!"

Mondays and Tuesdays are a bitch with school and work, so I did not know about the schism until a few minutes ago. I did remember reading Max's post, "My Farewell," yesterday morning before going to campus, but outside of thinking, "Whassup?" I shrugged it off.

Yeah, I don't read "Ficticious Stories" or "Personals"; hell, I don't even watch porn [except with frat bros who provided a live and ripe commentary]. So I was clueless.

I hope the near future brings a reuniting of the lpsg and bliss' safelpsg.

jay

 

[Ralexx]

Ok... I chilled a bit... I was so enraged that I promised myself not to post another message till I cool down, at least for the sake of the pertinence...

1. No matter how precious, how valuable the freedom of expression is - and I'm most grateful that Mark allows it to fully develop, with no restrictions - child sexual abuse, rape and incest or bestiality, in diplomatic terms, are lowering the level of LPSG. At least in my view. I do consider this site to be a very elegant and eloquent one.

2. What was done, was done for good. But maybe a LPSG policy on such subjects - child sexual abuse, rape, incest, bestiality - would be probably manage to avoid such unpleasures in the future.

 

[13788]

Solis24: Well I can't stay silent either. This is also all new to me, I don't scour through all the categories when I get on here as my time is usually limited anyway. I thankfully happenned upon Bliss on yahoo who filled me in on what happenned.

I have a problem with most of the litigious topics mentioned ad nauseam already, it's just not my kind of stuff and part of it is even strongly repulsive to me. I do however acknowledge the right of people to write about these things and, indeed, they have even been the centerpoints of works of literature. I will not argue the guiding line of freedom of speech as I fundamentally adhere to it myself. I refuse to take it upon myself to label off something as "good" or "bad", it's just not up to me. I have simply not bothered about what did not interest me here, pretty much in the same way as others have mentioned before me, and just concentrated on what did interest me. I didn't even know we had that kind of stuff going on in the "fictional stories" section.

I do however fail to see the point of having a fictional section altogether. It's fine to sidetrack a bit (what would be the fun of only posting something with the word "penis" in the title?) in "et caetera, et caetera" for example, or in "meet and greet" as we are after all human beings and we are curious and we HAVE developped into a lively online community and our lives do NOT revolve around our or our partner's penis. The "meet and greet" and the "et caetera et caetera" sections have proven their worth. However, on a website who's stated mission is to provide support, how does having fictionnal stories provide support at all? It's been the main nest of trouble in this latest episode. There are SO MANY other places on the net where you can post/read sexual fiction (www.nifty.org), some contents go even way further out than what we got here.

The only useful consequence I can see in all these mass departures is the debate that it has generated. It's just sad that it had to come to that in order to get the debate started. I don't think departures were necessary for that. Turning your back on a problem doesn't solve it.

I believe that the "minor-sensitive" material should be removed and specifically proscribed in the future, under the very simple grounds that our younger members aren't supposed to have access to such information as far as I know and, well, I would hate LPSG to get into any legal problems, regardless of having a good lawyer or not, even a lawsuit that we could win would still hurt us in the long run.

I am staying for now. Until now, the good things about this board (#1: the users!) still outweigh the bad things so I'm staying. I am curious to see what will happen on the new board and am likely to go have a look there too.

I will join in to the long list of people before me who have pleaded Mark to manifest himself.

Ok, enough.

 

[13788]

9cyclops9: Since there seems as though freedom of speech is strongly adhered to in this board (as it should be), and censorship will be avoided, can there not be a warning on stories that contain bestiality and the like? Or, could we have the genre of erotica specified somehow before reading it? What I mean is requiring that the genre be included in your title, like  this:

Sexy Encounter (BDSM)

This way, you know what you are getting into before you even open the story. It seems like this would solve a lot of problems.

Still waiting for Mark.

John

 

[13788]

throb919: Actually, it's just a theory (as it is not "demonstrably true" nor has it been proved on the basis of explicit assumptions):

The decline and fall of Western Civilization as we know it and the Great Schism of 2003 were precipitated by the introduction of the moderator system.

Yeah, well--Galileo wasn't popular, either. I count several "Mod Squad" members (present and dearly departed) among my best friends here, but something changed at LPSG with the new system. I've read the "My farewell" posts, Max's "lpsg" thread, and Norseman's thoughts at "Are we all posted out?" in "Meet and Greet." There are excellent points made in these threads and by everybody that's weighed-in on this anywhere. Read Max (UK Max, not Sammygirly's Maximillian) and Norseman if you haven't; it's all subtly (subtly--what a stupid-looking word!) tied together. Green stars were blown in on the winds of change. To the M-&-G points, that's when all the congratulating and post-counting really started...concurrent with popularity contests and "races"...

Censorship and First Amendment arguments? When horny meets thorny, it always gets complicated. But arguing is one of the things we do best around here. With civility and respect. The hoi-polloi may never know what really happened in the Moderators Lounge (read: I don't really care), but this does seem to be more about "other" things. (Somebody said that already and more eloquently--Dee, Javier, Monstro, Prepstud, Pecker, DMW, Mindseye...?)

Me, I hate the whole situation and the hard feelings it's caused all around. (And that bothers me a lot more than a fictional story about somebody wanting to fellate a seeing-eye dog would...)

Tony

 

[13788]

7x6andchg: Tony-

I don't know if your theory is correct or not, either...but I can say that I, for one, will gladly throw in my stars to return some sense of normalcy to the place if your theory is true.

The only reason I took the "job" was to offer welcomes to new people, answer questions where I could, and prevent people from being harassed when I could see that such harrassment was taking place. I also took it upon myself to encourage interaction between members in the form of Yahoo Chat, making sure everyone knew when/where they were.

Other than that, I posted as I normally had in the past...and would very much like to continue to do so.

 

[13788]

longtimelurker: What I am going to add is just to basically agree with Solis...

I think we are likely to lose far more than we gain going down the current path. After all, a lot more people will be put off by the more far-out stuff than we would gain by it.

I know it could set a bad precedent, but I don't honestly see what was so bad about Monstro's original 'guidelines' for posting in the fictional section.

 

[13788]

gigantikok: A lot of people are making good posts and throwing out great ideas as to how to end this situation. Now we just need to hear from Mark to end this debate and reach a resolution. So, where the hell is Mark?? We know you are out there!!

 

[13788]

Tender: ok correct me if im wrong but here is what i sort of seen as happening.
seems to me that the MODS are somewhat powerless?
i mean what good does it do to be a mod when you cant delete something as contraversial as sex with a child?
or a fight?
or a bunch of stolen copywrite material like HUMONGOUS posted??
all of that drivel needs removed before it causes problems like THIS.

also i know ill get flamed perhaps for this, but i worried from the get go on the mod lounge.
i know we have PM and such, so i guess it doesnt really matter, but it seemed to me a place that glares "off limits" to the 'ordinary poster'. the stuff we are talking about now clearly affects EVERYONE, but seemed to have alot of secret discussion without unpriveleged posters getting to chime in before the mess escalated to this. an perhaps it wouldnt have mattered in the outcome at all, but then at least some of us wouldnt be sitting here going "man, what happened?".
i would willingly be a mod, but then i would have to say, i wouldnt discuss anything in private about someone i wouldnt be embarassed to have show up in the light.
on the other hand, like Paul is saying, he is still a regular poster, so has to draw the line between being a mod and a regular. agh!

nothing wrong with guidelines when they are clearly posted, easy to understand. you break the guidelines, you get deleted.
the mods 'should' be able to do that.

furthermore if democracy is what we want, i think it is clearly obvious that the MAJORITY in a HUGE way doesnt approve of the said topics, so why let it continue?

As far as discussing other topics, ie, politics, relationships, religion ect ect, i think that is A-OK. we still have plenty to say about the penis as well, so i dont see the problem in that. its kept seperate pretty much from each other.

Tender

 

[13788]

wvalady1968: I've just reread through all the posts and want to say that I'm proud to be a member of a forum with so many truly good people.

I have a few thoughts.

1. If someone floods my IM mailbox with filth or hatred, have I no recourse? No protection? What kind of shit is that?

2. There is no better place for a kid with questions about sex and sexuality to come to than to this forum. The people here are intelligent, compassionate, and have a wide swath of experience.

3. If the good guys leave, the bad guys win.

Maximillian, Sammy, Nony, come back. Don't bail on the fight!

~steps down off soap box~

 

[13788]

Tender: i agree very strongly!!
you are staying as well? (gives lady a high five!)

ok well yes i too have thought, ok some decent folks leave, then who is left to fight the filth?
there will still be lots of folk sign in here wanting help, and lord knows what would happen to them when the people who post that crap approach them... (shudders....)

plus there is still plenty of good here, and the majority of posters are OK.

Tender

 

[Pecker]

What fight?

Are you people advocating a hostile takeover of the board?

Let's get out of civil disobedience mode and remember what LPSG is about. Men asking questions about size issues; members discussing topical, and sometimes inane, subjects; personals; fictional fantasy.

If you came to LPSG for discussions about penis size, stick to those topics and ignore anything else. If you want to participate more, but not in Fictitious Stories or Personals, well okay, do that.

It is a simple way to fulfill your board needs without depriving others of theirs.

In the meantime, don't lose sight of whose board this is, and remember that we enjoy it at his pleasure.

 

[13788]

gigantikok: [quote author=wvalady1968 link=board=99;num=1068001982;start=40#53 date=11/05/03 at 18:21:55]
Maximillian, Sammy, Nony, come back. Don't bail on the fight!
[/quote]
I doubt they are coming back, Allie.  At least not Nony.  Some people have expressed the opinion that they were "giving up" or "turning their back on a problem".  I don't know if I can jump to those conclusions.  All I know is I spoke directly with Nony through email, and I know she felt like she had no choice but to leave.  She knew Mark calls the shots and that Mark would allow written child pornography, and she told me that she had to leave to save her job and reputation.  She felt like she could never risk being associated with a site that distributes child pornography... written or not.  Anyway, I hope out departed members do well and take care of themselves.  They'll be missed.

 

[13788]

Tender: [quote author=Pecker link=board=99;num=1068001982;start=40#55 date=11/05/03 at 18:32:48]What fight?

Are you people advocating a hostile takeover of the board?

[/quote]


???
ah no i dont have a plan to overthrow the world lol!
i meant the stories persay of the child/animal kind...
and such.
i dont see the reason for good folks to leave based on that they dont agree with it.
so they dont agree, they leave. and then what ? who is left then to defend decent thoughts?

Tender

 

[13788]

Maximillian: I am here to clear up a few things because I am not amused by hearing of the general bashing of Myself, sammy and a few others. The reason we left and the ONLY reason is because of stories involving sex with children being allowed.

Tsk tsk at you for presuming to second guess Me or know My motives. Knowing what an asshole I am, you should have know if that if anything else was the issue, I would have said so. No one can ever say I havent spoke My mind no matter how controversial, rude or obnoxious My opinion was.

I refused to stay on a board that was going to allow child pornography in ANY form, guilt by association is not My thang and having knowledge of something illegal is called being an accessory. However, I have done My homework and Lucy, you got some splainin to do.

While the Child Pornography Laws may be grey enough to supposedly allow fictional depictions of that subject, Federal laws dont, including the laws against Sexual Exploitation of Minors and others. Also, the LPSG message board is located on a server in California, California has C.P.C. § 311. "This statute applies to all possessing and publishing for sale or distribution of sexual conduct by a minor." ( http://www.wklaw.com/areas_internet.html )

Also found these on the Department of Justice website "At the same time, priority is always given to cases involving the use of minors in producing pornography and cases involving the interstate or foreign shipment of material depicting minors engaged in sexually explicit conduct." ( http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/obscenity.htm ) Another interesting link is the one that covers Title 18, Part I, Chapter 110, Section 2252 of US Code, "Certain activities relating to material involving the sexual exploitation of minors" you can read it here ( http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2252.html )

Now lets look at the definition of child pornography:

''child pornography means any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct"

Visual depiction is the semi-grey area here, however is not a monitor a visual thing even when it includes text only? The word "including" seems not to refer to being limited to those defined visual tools, but to give a partial definition for clarification purposes. A good lawyer could force that point and with the current arena calling for more protection where this is concerned, it could be a landmark case. I for one dont want to set an example for being around stuff like this. The 1st amendment is being bandied about, however with the history of child pornography laws becoming the exception to this amendment, why even take the chance if even to make a point? Child sexual abuse in any form is the vilest crime that has ever struck society.

One last thing:

"The online industry is also encouraged to familiarize itself with 47 U.S.C. §230. This "Good Samaritan" blocking and screening statute states that:

"no provider ... shall be held liable on account of any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider ... considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected...." ( http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/report.htm )

Why not be part of the solution and not part of the problem? Thats called CYA in My neck of the woods. Methinks someone needs better legal counsel, someone didnt dot their i's and cross their t's and its not Me. -points to the P.S. below-

Maximillian

P.S. Even if you think you have a loophole thru laws, one thing you cant get past and thats this ( http://www.oakweb.com/terms.htm ) Especially the section titled "client content" which in this case supercedes any laws you may wish to use to cloud the issue.

-heads out to delete this membership again, wondering if I will be banned from a board that says it allows freedom of speech by all-

 

[13788]

norseman: Finally, the Jerry Springer moment we've all been waiting for....

Are we done here yet ? Some people disagreed with Board policy, got pissed off and left. Right ? Alrighty then. See ya. Now you've got your own sandbox to play in. Have a nice day.

Norse