My friend's dad thinks I'm gay

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by LemacST, Aug 23, 2007.

  1. LemacST

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    So I have a friend who's bi-sexual (or maybe gay?) but still completely shoved into the closet. I know this because of the thousands of things he's done and said, his transparent, homophobic attitude towards gay men (this has calmed down though over the years), his over-awareness and his questionable criticism of other men, along with other things as the fact that every single guy who was in his group of friends during high school have recently came out as bi-sexual or gay. I've never confronted my friend about this because he's still super sensitive about it and I feel our friendship would be severly damaged or totally ruined if I asked him (It's weird though, sometimes I get the feeling he's ready for me to ask him and other times it doesn't feel that way at all...eitherway, I know he knows he could confide in me, not just because I am not homophobic but because he's a really great friend of mine). Anyway, his dad obvioulsy feels the same way and knows him better than I do, I'm sure. I don't know how long his dad has implied it to him (because he does, pretty often actually), but it has been for at least a year or two now. Over the summer I moved back home and the only person I ever really wanted to hang out with was him. Everyone else was gone and/or were just people I didn't feel like wasting time with. We hung out all the time, after a while he told me that his dad would say certain things implying that I was his boyfriend or something. I am straight and even though like I said I'm accept homosexuality, it still really bothers me that his dad thinks I'm his boyfriend or something. I'm not metro/feminine at all by the way, so it's not some kind of insecurity in that sense, I just feel very weird that everytime him and I would hang out and do things normal guy friends would, his dad things we're up to something else. About his dad though, I've talked to him for long periods of time about all sorts of things. He is very fond of me and tells my friend that he's happy he's hanging out with me as opposed to some of the other kids he would hang out with (they're pretty seedy people and kind of lowlifes). Anyway, I'm stuck in this weird situation where I obviously cannot talk to his dad about it since I can't even talk to my friend about it. What do you think I should do at this point? When do you think I'll know is the proper time I can talk to my friend about it?

    One last question I have which is somewhat off topic but still about my friend is this--When gay couples go out, do they set up things in a certain way to let other gay couples know they're gay, or dating, or something? I sometimes noticed my friend wanting to be in uniform with me, he would ask me to wear sunglasses when he was, jeans when he was, etc. These examples might sound a bit extreme out of context, like the jeans thing, we were originally going to go to the beach but then bailed last minute and decided we were going to go out elsewhere, he very agressively told me to put jeans on (as he had his on) and not in my boardshorts, which I go out in public with all the time. He would really make a point out these things. It got me thinking when we went to get something to eat and he said something like "omg ew..a gay old couple just checked us out, did you see that?" :)rolleyes: ) From what I remember they seemed kind of like they were dressed the same. Am I just reading into this too much or does this actually happen?
     
  2. LemacST

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    If this makes any difference by the way, we're both college students.
     
  3. jason_els

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    First, his dad likely knows him better than you, but only in certain ways. Parents sometimes only see what they want to see and sometimes kids can develop alternate personas they use only around their parents to hide things they don't want their parents to know. His dad may be using you to fish for information he doesn't feel he can ask his son.

    I'd be straight-up the next time he makes a comment. Simply tell him:

    I'm not John's boyfriend. John is my best friend. If you feel you need to talk to him about something then you'll have to talk to him yourself. Your relationship with John is none of my business and I don't want to betray any confidences. I'm sure you understand. :)

    It may frustrate him but he'll respect that because it's the mature response. It's a good response because it sets the record straight without putting you in the middle, which is a really bad place to be. It's respectful and sincere too.
     
  4. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    As to the dressing thing, that's a bit weird. There is no secret gay uniform code out there so that isn't the reason. I suspect that he's very concerned about appearances in certain situations. It's pretty controlling and I'd put a stop to it as soon as possible lest you come to resent his demands. If he feels he can tell you what to wear then what next? No, you have to be your own man as he needs to be his. I would just come out and ask what's with the whole dress code thing anyway. It's weird and if he's as good a friend as you say, then you should be able to raise this issue without too much turmoil.
     
  5. LemacST

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    This makes sense, but his dad says it very quick and only when the both of us are around. For example, the other night we went to go see a movie that we've both been wanting to see

    Dad: So, what are you and John doing tonight
    Me: Uh, not really sure yet, we're going to go see (Movie) at some point tonight though
    Dad: Oh really?
    John: Yeah, we heard it's pretty funny
    Dad: So you're both going to see (Movie), justthetwoofyou,ohok..so what's the movie about?

    See what I mean by how he just squeezes it in there? Another example, him and I were sitting in his room, watching TV...the door was open and everything. I think he was on his bed and I was on the floor. We were just watching TV in his room because his parents were watching TV in the living room. We were watching "I love the 80's" on VH1 and laughing at how corny and stupid the 80's was (no offense to anyone from that era!). His dad walked in while they were showing something kinda gay, like either genderbender hairbands or Boy George or something...His dad looked at the TV, then looked at us, gave an odd look, scratched his chin and told John, "You know, sometimes some things just make you go 'Hmm..'" and walked out. John got pissed off and kind of rolled his eyes.

    That example was kind of stupid, but I know his dad definitely has experienced times where "thinking 'Hmm" was pretty reasonable, as his son does raise some major flags at times. I'm really curious to know if John actually thinks he's fooling anyone (that knows him well enough) because it's so obvious. I really wish he just came out, at least to his parents, or me. They are pretty religious but I don't think they'd shun him for being gay, although his dad's tactics aren't the friendliest, it isn't exactly punishment either. It's not "You better not be gay", it's "Come on...I know you're gay. Just tell us". His dad loves him and he would not disown him as a son or anything terrible like that. I just imagine the pressure for John is unbearable.
     
  6. LemacST

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    Oh and about the dress code thing--One thing about John is that he's very assertive and often pretty self-concious. I'm not assertive at all. We've bumped heads often because of this. It doesn't happen as much anymore as we've talked about it and he's stopped jumping the gun as much while I've become more assertive myself.
     
  7. Dave NoCal

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    It seems to me that you have a pretty good undersanding of the situation or, at least, it's similar to mine. :rolleyes: My take is that dad knows/suspects the score with John and is actually trying to raise the issue in a manner he thinks is subtle and accepting. The way you describe the interactions, it's usually in the form of a nuance that really isn't appropriate to get confrontational about. My parents had a friend they know was gay but he was staying closeted with them. It was challenging to figure out how to give him permission and convey acceptance in a way he could hear. In fact they were not able to and he died relatively young. They still feel badly that they were not able to clear that barrier in their relationship. About the only way that i know of to respond is, when John comments on his dad's suspicions, ask: "Why would he think that?" It would be non-confrontational but might get him thinking a bit more rationally on the topic.
    About this dress code thing, that's bullshit. I wouldn't consider telling a friend what to wear unless it had to do with my work.
     
  8. huw ginnit

    huw ginnit New Member

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    I think that whilst you're being this good friend, there might not be the need for John to assess his identity issues, as he might see you as a "surrogate" boyf, and that as you don't kick up any fuss and let him tell you what you should wear are almost obliging him in a small way.

    In fewer words perhaps there's an unrequited aspect to this, an aspect that maybe his Dad's more aware of than you???

    The "You know sometimes things make you go hmm" comments from the father is I think a veiled attempt to provoke the situation, to get a reaction from John- if only to give John an oppportunity, if he was thinking about it himself. Yes it is unfortunate the father isn't able to be more clear about expressing himself, but deosn't want to upset his son, and his (he assumes) lover...

    There is no dress code for dating couples, but I think John wants other people to see you as more than friends or maybe that he's unavailable as he's "obviously" with someone....He's using you as a coping mechanism, to deter attention from other guys perhaps??

    I say confront him. You can talk about an attractive guy in a tv programme or the sexy way someone looks/dances in a music video and take it from there. If you sound open and intune with the idea of appreciating a guy, in a non-sexual way perhaps John might be able to talk in a similar vein, and relax about the whole situation.

    A lad I work with had a terrible time just saying "He's attractive" or "He looks nice" whilst being-- I think the phrase goes "Gayer than a goose at christmas singing Judy Garland songs" Giving him the opportunity to realise that nobody's going to make fun or criticise mean that he felt more comfortable by degrees and able to come out in a small way, until he felt so open it was made much easier for him, just to make the small leap from "I like" to "I fancy"
     
  9. speshk

    speshk New Member

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    This sounds like a train wreck to me.

    Run, don't walk, from this situation.

    Absolutely full of denial, passive-aggressive behavior, gad, you name the malfunction.

    I'm afraid you're gonna get burned in this situation.
     
  10. Rikter8

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    I'd drop the labels entirely.

    If you enjoy his company, and you understand each other, mabee it IS love.
    It comes in all forms chief. It doesn't always smack you on the head. Sometimes its more suttle.

    Think about it....wouldnt you want to be with a friend (male or female) that you know everything about? (Common interests, hobbies, etc)

    Ignore the taunts, and just live your lives. Be successful, get through college, and get good jobs. The rest will fall into place. You'll either be lifelong buds, or possibly more.

    Only time will tell.

    One thing, is it sounds like you are one that he will confide in. Use extreme caution in what is confided in you.
     
  11. LemacST

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    Interesting advice so far.

    Hmm.

    The whole situation is just obnoxious. Our friendship is obnoxious. Like I said before, he is very assertive and takes many things personally, he's the kind of person that lets no one into his life unless he 100% approves of them (seriously) and when he finally does, if that 100% approval isn't maintained, he becomes a little bitch. I hate saying it, but it's true. He has done me wrong in the past more than once because he overreacted over stupid shit. He loves drama. I've never once been involved with another person (except a couple of girls) who shit-talk and overreact to things as much as he has.

    This is my guess on why he is the way he is. He realized he was gay a long time ago, hated himself for it and did not want to become friends with anyone who might discover it. Maybe this is why he became friends with a group of guys who all now have come out of the closet (except for him).

    I didn't mention this before, but one last thing that I experienced that ultimately proves that he is bi-sexual or gay: When we first met, when no one was around, he would try to..erm.."wrestle" with me. But the wrestling was actually more like attempted fondling. It was creepy, but since I didn't really know him all that well yet I just thought he was being stupid so I'd push him away. Another thing, when girls would give me attention, hit on me, whatever, he seemed to get jelous. Again, at the point in time I didn't really suspect him of anything and I just assumed he was jelous the way another straight guy would be if he wasn't getting much attention from girls. Only later did the pieces come together...

    What am I trying to say out of this? Well, I am 100% positive John had a crush on me when I first met him, I was just completely oblivious of it and once I really started thinking about things, it seemingly stopped. He hasn't done anything like I've mentioned in years. I met him about three years ago, by the way.

    Thinking about it however makes me pissed off, the fact that he took advantage of me in a sense. It's not just that it was creepy, but because he was also such a prick because of it too (he would say really dickish things when girls would hit on me). Like I said, he's very agressive and can be an asshole, so because of this, plus our personality clashes, tons and tons of things have caused him to be an asshole to me and although it's now in the past, it still infuriates me thinking about them again.

    Now mix this with the really great times we've had hanging out. It's basically equal, so making a choice whether to continue being his friend or not is hard. I've never dealt with anything even close to this with any other friends because a)most of my friends are guys who dont cause stupid, useless drama and b) if i ever did sense i would not have a good friendship with someone, i would immediately cut them out of my life (relatively speaking)

    I think I'm going to ask him why his dad thinks he's gay the next time it's appropiate to ask. We'll see what happens from there. I'm seriously doubting I even want to be his friend anymore, after typing this whole thing up and remembering all the things he has done that pissed me off. What a dysfunctional friendship I've had with him.

    Meh.
     
  12. huw ginnit

    huw ginnit New Member

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    If being his friend is going to stop you developing relationships as and when the opportunity might occur, I think it might be a good idea to put a little emotional distance between you; still be friends, good friends, but make it clear that unless he gives you a certain degree of respect there's nothing in this friendship as it continues...as you say more than anything this comes down to his opinion of himself and unless he addresses these "problems" you can't be the friend he needs you to be.

    The good times should be a bonus to a good friendship, the icing on the cake, not the sticking plater over the painful incidents.

    Be brave and tell him where you stand and what you want.... or be prepared to take more of the same.
     
  13. Mem

    Mem
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    Why are you hung up about what your friend's dad thinks? just get over it.
     
  14. MH07

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    I'm not sure I agree 100% with Speshk, but probably about 90%. I was in a similar "friendship" for 30 years (!). I finally got tired of the whole situation and just put some distance between me and him (he and I are both gay, btw).

    I refer specifically to the part you mentioned where, "If he doesn't get his way, he becomes a little bitch." (rolls eyes). That describes exactly my situation---as long as we did EXACTLY what "J" wanted, everything was perfectly fine, but if (heaven forbid) *I* wanted to see a particular movie or go to a particular restaurant, look out! "Punishment" would occur in the form of his sulks, ripping on me for no particular reason, putting down my clothes, appearance, whatever was handy.

    If I may, with you and your friend, what I think you have going on here is two different things: You have the "sex" thing (and it sounds like he does want to "mess around"). You have the "relationship" thing, in which you have this relationship with him and tangentally with his Dad.

    If you want to try the sex thing, that's fine. From what you said, I infer that he would like to but doesn't know how (or is in complete denial of his own desires, "I CAN'T be gay/bi/whatever, not ME!" If you don't want to try the sex thing, just remember that he DOES (whether he'll admit it or not), and as long as he feels that way it's going to be like this---you get hit on by girls, he's jealous, etc.

    I think the deal with his Dad is being overblown a bit, based on what you've said. Unless he's given MANY more clues than this, I'd say that's just you reading something into the situation. Why? Because you have difficulty deciphering what exactly IS your relationship with your friend, and are therefore more sensitive to any stray comments made by his Dad. Again, this is just based on your posts above, there may be a lot more.

    ***********

    Ultimately, here's how it shakes out: You (and you alone) are going to have to decide if being friends with him is important enough to you for you to subvert your own self (your attire, your own romantic pursuits, your desires to go where you want and do what you want). In MY case, I decided that a little distance was helpful (amazingly, as a 50 year old man, I actually CAN buy my own clothes, dress in my own style, select my own movies, restaurants, etc WITHOUT his "help".). I now speak with him once a month or so. I just took a new job for about a 40% salary increase, which replaced an old job that was being eliminated. It involved a relocation. "J" has told me (and all our mutual friends) that I just did this selfishly because I wanted to hurt my friends and family, that I could have found another job right there at home (uh--no, actually not), etc.

    I decided I was better off without him. You'll have to eventually make that choice---with him with restrictions, or without him and be yourself.

    Oh---there's no gay dress code. That would certainly make things easier, but no, there's not. We look just like everybody else.

    If you want to pm me, feel free.
     
  15. ManiacalMadMan

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    If your friends dad thinks you are gay maybe it is some thing to do with hw you are and he sees it as gay Some men are more open on their feelings and some men see that as gay some men dress in pink or red shirts and some men think that is gay Then again may be he just sees you as a good partner for his son or may be he even secretly desires to have some sex with you. It has been said sexuality is genetic and if his son is bisexual he may take it from his dad.

    In the final out come it does not matter what the dad thinks as much as what you know that you are whether it is gay or straight or bisexual. Be glad with what you are and don't worry or wonder what some other person might think.
     
  16. speshk

    speshk New Member

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    'Glad you're beginning to see the light. Stick with positive people. :wink:
     
  17. lokibrand

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    I know everyone on here including the OP is assuming the friend is gay, but im not 100 percent sure. He may just be really self-concious and unconfident. Did he by any chance use to be overweight or in some way seen as unattractive in junior high or high school? Ive seen this with a few of my friends they were not attractive as adolescents so they want to be ultra-macho/desireable as young adults. This would explain why he's so assertive/aggressive, he wants to prove to himself that he is the "alpha male" Underneath all that bravado is a hurt person with low self-esteem who i think is afraid that he is going to lose you as a friend that is why he orders you around(the clothes thing) My friend used to tell us all where to go and stuff, not to be controlling, but just so we wouldn't leave him behind. Trying to be macho and aggressive would also explain the wrestling and such, trying to establish dominance. Being manly is (unfortunately in our society) also associated in some ways with homophobia. So, i think this may be the case, but that's just my opinion because i was in almost the same situation and we thought he was gay and he wasn't. If this is the case you have to remember that he's doing all that because he's hurt, you just need to establish that your his friend no matter what and it should start to go away(actually that should work wheter straight or gay).

    Of course, I could be wrong and he very well could be gay(you know him better than i do! lol). But if you think he is, i would try to slip into a conversation about it if it bothers you that much, maybe using his dad as a catalyst. But if not, why can't you two just be friends and worry about all that stuff later, I mean you're in college he'll probably find someone hat will make him comfortable with being gay(boyfriend or otherwise) and tell you on his own time anyway

    Oh and as far as the dad goes, i think its kinda wrong for him to bring up the gay issue over and over if he really thinks his son is gay and not ready to admit it(but i think he means well). If you have a pretty good relationship with him(the dad) then i would suggest maybe talking to him about the situation. If not, then i don't know.
    Good Luck
     
  18. arliss

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    I think you should seek out an opportunity to get your friends dad by himself ....and grab and hold his crotch...gently massaging his penis..until it stiffens....while having a man to man talk with him....
     
  19. Principessa

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    Well said!

    In lieu of a heart to heart with the dad you may want to get rid of the Hello Kitty purse. :tongue: You can call it a man bag if you want; but it could be sending the wrong message. :smile:
     
  20. dreamer20

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    Looking at this from the father's perspective I think that he is wondering why his dear son isn't fooling around with any girls and is fishing for information. I agree with jason_els. You have a good rapport with the father and can easily set him straight about your relationship with sonny.

    Your thread could easily have been titled "I think that my friend is gay". Note that you are no different from his father in this respect. Until you know otherwise you must take his homophobic attitude at face value and assume that he is not gay.

    As for the clothing thing again I agree with jason_els. It is a control issue. He wants to play the dictator and give you the role of being his toad. Ignore his demands and assert yourself instead.

     
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