National Institute of Standards and Technology attributes WTC 7 collapse to fire

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Calboner, Aug 21, 2008.

  1. Calboner

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    According to a new article in Popular Mechanics (Aug. 21, 2008):
    Conspiracy theorists have long claimed that explosives downed World Trade Center 7, north of the Twin Towers. The long-awaited report from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) conclusively rebuts those claims. Fire alone brought down the building, the report concludes, pointing to thermal expansion of key structural members as the culprit. The report also raises concerns that other large buildings might be more vulnerable to fire-induced structural failure than previously thought.​
    In particular:
    The final report describes how debris from the collapse of WTC 1 ignited fires on at least 10 floors of WTC 7 at the western half of the south face. Fires on Floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 burned out of control, because the water supply to the automatic sprinkler system had failed. The primary and backup water supply to the sprinkler systems for the lower floors relied on the city's water supply. Those water lines were damaged by the collapse of WTC 1 and 2. These uncontrolled fires in WTC 7 eventually spread to the northeast part of the building, where the collapse began.

    After 7 hours of uncontrolled fires, a steel girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to one of the 81 columns supporting the building. Floor 13 collapsed, beginning a cascade of floor failures to Floor 5. Column 79, no longer supported by a girder, buckled, triggering a rapid succession of structural failures that moved from east to west. All 23 central columns, followed by the exterior columns, failed in what's known as a "progressive collapse"—that is, local damage that spreads from one structural element to another, eventually resulting in the collapse of the entire structure. ​
    But I suppose that this just goes to show that the NIST is part of the conspiracy to cover up the true story of US government involvement, right?
     
  2. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    Good stuff, Cal.
    My nose has always smelled a lotta shit from all the WTC conspiracy theorists.
    But what do engineers know?
    They're probably in the pay of the CIA or some of the hidden security agencies. Or maybe by the Israelis. Or some Halliburton affiliate.
    And Popular Mechanics benefits famously from 'hidden' Mossad funding.
    Donchuh know?
     
  3. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    The world trade center was built in such a way that the floors imploded on one another. The size and shape of the steel structure was not up to todays standards. It was built like a house of cards. I remember watching a detailed discussion of it after the debris had been cleared away. It should have had much larger steel from the bottom up.
     
    #3 D_Bob_Crotchitch, Aug 21, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2008
  4. D_Rod Staffinbone

    D_Rod Staffinbone Account Disabled

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    ok. i'm not a nutjob (i swear) and have been ahead of the curve on many things.
    take it with a grain of salt but i'll throw this one out there.
    i just checked this out under my theory of "just follow the money".
    hearst corporation owns popular mechanics,
    hearst broadcasting division is strongly partnered with nbc/universal.
    nbc/universal is owned by general electric. general electric is one
    of the largest u.s. defense contractors. i believe g.e. is the main company
    involved with the u.s. nuclear arsenal. it's like a family. got something against family values?

    i actually believe that there was massive structural failure, due to fire, in both towers. nevertheless there is a lot
    weird stuff that's been going on.

    offroad

    btw the National Institute of Standards and Technology is a federal agency. is that kind of like
    the FBI investigating the Justice Department? that's always been real productive in the past.

    where else can this dialogue happen but here on lpsg?
    and patty hearst, who was in the SLA, is now a dog breeder.
     
    #4 D_Rod Staffinbone, Aug 21, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2008
  5. Deno

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    What's amazing is that it took them 7 years to come up with this bullshit. Everyone keeps forgetting that a steel structure never before in history collapsed due to fire damage, some burning for as long a 24 hours. Not until that day when it happened to 3. What the hell is the odds of that happening.

    Yeah offroad wouldn't National in National Institute indicate government funding?
     
  6. Qua

    Qua
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    I will point everyone to the South Park episode on the subject: Bush and co. are behind the conspiracy theories because they want everyone to think they're devious and powerful enough to get away with pulling off 9/11 to create a justification for Iraq, keeping America in line and in fear by capitalizing on what was just the work of "a bunch of pissed off Arabs."
     
  7. Principessa

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    #7 Principessa, Aug 21, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2008
  8. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    True, but most people won't accept the truth. If they do, it means they have to look for another reason to blame the government for the attacks.
     
    #8 D_Bob_Crotchitch, Aug 21, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2008
  9. silvertriumph2

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    I worked for 5 years for a company (it was an early tenant of the complex),
    whose offices (2 floors) were in the WTC. The entire WTC Complex was very
    shodidly constructed, and was a health menace (asbestas dust covered evey
    desk and the upholstry on all chairs every morning), a firetrap, and a disaster
    waiting to happen! I will not bore you with details, but a few years before 9/11,
    our company president was worried enoug to be willing to pay a very, very
    high penalty for breaking his 30 year lease so we could move to another building.

    The WTC was owned and operated by the Tri State (NY, NJ, & CT) Port Authority
    and therefore a State government operation. From what I understand, they were
    able to work around the rules, regulations and construction standards, that non-govenmentally owned and operated buildings must follow, in order to save money.
    I have read that the cutting of these corners, faclitated the eventual collapse.
    One of these cost cuttings was the insulation used to cover the steel (because
    of health concerns they did not use asbestos above the lower 10 or so floors).
    The substitute material was not up to standard and did not protect the steel
    from the high temperatures of the burning jet fuel.

    As far as I am concerned, the failure of the PA to follow these rules, regulations,
    and construction standards......was just as much a "conspiracy" as any of the
    others I have heard about.

    I thank the president of my former company for moving us out, therefore, letting
    the employees be somewhere else on 9/11. But, I lost a lost of friends that day!
     
  10. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    I am sorry you lost friends in the tragedy.
     
  11. Calboner

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    I've been watching the last disc of the Ric Burns documentary on New York City, made in 2003 (after the original series was completed in 1999), about the history of the World Trade Center. What you say does not surprise me. The whole project was carried out in a very heavy-handed way by the Port Authority. For instance, early models of the towers failed tests in a wind tunnel, one of them even collapsing. These results were, not surprisingly, kept secret. As people interviewed in the film say, if word of them had gotten out, the towers would almost certainly never have been built.
     
  12. Flashy

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    any minute, marley shall be along to explain the conspiracy to us, and that his youth is the reason why us old fogeys cannot see how obvious it is.
     
  13. Qua

    Qua
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    Hey now, I'm younger than he is; perhaps it's because I'm too young and naive and still blindly trust all the old fogeys.
     
  14. silvertriumph2

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    This thread has brought a lot of memories back and I thought I would
    share jist a few of them...

    1) to save money, there were no light switches, so the lights stayed on
    24/7 (we were told that it took more energy to turn lights on and off than
    to just keep them on). Lights could be turned off, but only by the building
    and 9 floors at a time. Who knew?
    We discovered the switch problem on the day we moved in and tried to
    use a projector in the conference room during a welcome/orientation
    meeting for the staff. We looked and looked, but couldn't find a light switch.
    Finally, we called building service and were told there were no switches.
    Boy, that was a surprise!!!
    The next week we were allowed to install switches in the conference room,
    but not anywhere else in the office.

    2) some years later, there was a fire in one of the towers ( I believe it
    was the North Tower) and it burned through 9 floors. It seems that the
    building was based on blocks of 9 floors, with each of the 9 floors being
    connected to a 9 floor utility shaft for housing all the wiring, plumbing, etc.
    When the fire hit, it went up the utility shaft, entering each of the floors and
    burned out the entire 9 floor block. Floors above and below this 9 floor block
    were unharmed.

    3) the fire instructions and fire drills were a joke at the time. Later, a very
    sophistocated system was installed, with fire drills held quite often. This
    was started just before we moved.

    4) my office was on the 6th floor where (as we understood) asbestos had
    already been installed, before they switched over to something else on the
    higher floors. Our offices (an international company) operated 24/7, but all
    the offices were still thoroughly cleaned every night. When I arrived every
    morning, my desk was covered with a thin film of white dust and you could
    write your name in it. If you hit the upholstry on the desk chair, or the two
    chairs and sofa in my office, a cloud of white dust would rise up in the air.
    My boss constantly complained to the WTC, but only got promises that it
    would be taken care of "as soon as possible." But, this went on for years.
    We later learned, an entire floor at a time would have had to be evacuated
    to clean it all up....ceilings and wall taken down, carpets removed, etc...too
    costly and too much of an inconveinence for us, so the company sued. We
    eventually had to pay a high penalty to break the long lease, but we moved.

    5) I visited a Japanese company on one of the floors...in the high 90's or low
    hundreds. In their lobby, they had a large fish tank with a number of beautiful
    and costly coy fish (I believe that is how you spell it). I was fascinated by the
    beautiful fish. A couple of weeks or so later, I had a meeting there again and
    when I arrived I found the fish gone and instead there was ornamentally raked
    sand and some rocks in the tank. I asked where the fish went and was told
    that a week before, when we had had a really bad storm and high winds, which
    causes the building to sway a lot (it has to), and during the night, the building
    swayed and the water sloshed back and forth and finally sloshed over the top
    along with the expensive fish.....which they lost. When they came in to work
    that morning, they found the mess and thousands of dollars of dead fish!

    6) When it rained or snowed, the winds swirling around the buildings caused
    the rain to "rain up" and the snow to "snow up." It was really a strange thing to experience!

    The complex and the buildings were beautiful and it was a wonderful experience
    to look out of the windows or to visit the viewing areas at the top, and an
    awesome experience to feel the buildings sway back and forth....but, not a
    very nice place to work.
     
  15. Flashy

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    yes, but you are sane :biggrin1:
     
  16. silvertriumph2

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    I just realized that the topic was about building #7, which was built
    later and was the last building of the WTC complex.
    I had been talking about the original buildings. But, who knows, #7
    was still part of the group and who knows what cost cutting was
    done when #7 was built.

    Sorry.
     
  17. Penis Aficionado

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    The Towers may well have been pieces of shit, structure-wise, but ...

    I lived in NYC from 1995-2001. I dated a girl who lived on Staten Island, and on several occasions when I had to be at work early, I found myself taking the ferry back to Manhattan basically in the middle of the night, say 3 or 4 am. And sometimes when I would arrive on the Manhattan side, I would just start walking, rather than catch the subway train that was right there, because it was so cool and quiet and peaceful down at the Battery late at night.

    And a couple of times I walked right up to the WTC Plaza in the middle of the night, and there was not a soul in sight -- not many people lived down there, and there was no nightlife at all, so it really was deserted. And I would walk right up to one of the towers, and stand with my back against the building and look up -- and it would seem like the building was leaning down over me like a big protective troll, and like the sky was kind of rushing backwards and down, and I'd try to see the top of the building but I couldn't, it just went on and on, and finally I would get dizzy and fall down. And then I would get up and laugh, and kind of pat the side of the WTC for the funny joke it had played on me.

    So, I will always treasure my memories of those two wonderful buildings, when it was just them and me, visiting in the night ...
     
  18. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    That's an op-ed piece right there. Excellent post!

     
  19. Phil Ayesho

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    YOu just followed NO money.

    Follow the money means. "who stands to profit"... you fail to show how any of those in your chain stand to profit by covering up the real cause.

    Think about this... Any publishing company who can come up with ironclad proof of government conspiracy behind 9/11- especially Hearst Corp. would be guaranteed hundred of million in sales of papers, magazine and books detailing their evidence, uncovering conspirators....
    It would become a news industry... like the watergate coverage.

    So follow the money makes no sense.


    And also- the WTC was built plenty strong. It absorbed the energy of those impacts and kept standing...
    Would have kept standing to this day if it were even theoretically possible to build a fire suppression system that could withstand that kind of impact.

    The reason the fire brought the building down is the same reason any idea that there were explosives planted is idiotic.

    NO structural or wiring system could survive an impact that severed steel columns capable of supporting that big a structure.

    The notion that skyscrapers of that height COULD be made to withstand such an attack is pretty far fetched.
    The more massive the building, the more weight it must support. And all any attack has to do is to tip some portion of the structure beyond the margin between weight and surviving strength.

    The only real lesson from WTC architecturally, is that you have to disperse and harden stairwells.

    IF a skyscraper can survive such an impact and fire for an hour... that is enough time to evacuate all survivors of the impact... as long as they have a passable stairwell.

    For what it withstood... WTC 1 & 2 did an amazing job. It was well engineered.
     
  20. hot-rod

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    I agree with you, Deno. Seems to me that people can see an airplane falling out of the sky from quite a long distance away. I personally don't believe that a plane hit the Pentagon or crashed in a field in Penn. If these happened, why haven't we seen at least one photo showing these planes coming down. The Pentagon has more cameras around it than the White House, I'm sure, wouldn't you think? Bush pulled off this shady deal for now, but sooner or later the truth will come out.
     
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