NCAA bans Native American references

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Pecker, Aug 11, 2005.

  1. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    The NCAA has notified its participants that 18 of its colleges and universities, which have Native American named teams/mascots are no longer eligible for playoffs unless they cover the name/illustrations on their uniforms or change their nicknames altogether.

    In 2008 no teams will be allowed to be named after Native Americans.

    With one exception, I think the NCAA's PC stand is bullshit. Can high schools and pro sports teams be far behind? Are they ignoring the fact that several American States are based on Native American names? (Iowa, Illinois, Utah, the Dakotas, etc.)

    Here's the NCAA list of endangered 'species':

    Alcorn State University Braves
    Arkansas State University (main campus) Indians
    Bradley University Braves
    Carthage College Redmen
    Catawba College Indians
    Central Michigan University Chippewas
    Chowan College Braves
    Florida State University Seminoles
    Indiana University of Pennsylvania Indians
    McMurry University Indians
    Midwestern State University Indians
    Mississippi College Choctaws
    Newberry College Indians
    Southeastern Oklahoma State University Savages <--- change this one&#33;
    University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Illini
    University of Louisiana at Monroe Indians
    University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux
    University of Utah Utes

    So, if they get their way and the team names change, what do you think they should be changed to?

    Tongue-in-cheek examples:

    Arkansas State University Rednecks
    Alcorn State University Honkies
    University of North Dakota Frozen Gonads

    Whadaya think?
     
  2. D_Barbi_Queue

    D_Barbi_Queue Account Disabled

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    Sometimes I feel like political correctness has gone too far. The next think you know, and all the teams named after animals will have to change b/c PETA will say that it represents carnage among animals or some crap like that.
     
  3. Dr. Dilznick

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    The names should be changed. However there are a few that shouldn&#39;t.

    One is the Utah Utes.

    Why shouldn&#39;t it be changed? Well, since the Utes changed their name from the Redskins some time ago, they&#39;ve had the support with the local Ute tribes. The tribe has endorsed the name and I don&#39;t see how that&#39;s a problem.
     
  4. Lex

    Lex
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    I am glad to see this. I certainly wouldn&#39;t want any teams named after African Tribes or the like. Especially derogatory nicknames like REDSKINS.

    How about we name one of the WNBA teams the Cunts or Bitches or maybe the Broads?

    Then we could name one Hockey Team the Crackers and another the Honkeys&#33;&#33;

    AND we could even have basketball teams named Spooks, Coons, and Niggers&#33;

    YEAH&#33;&#33; That&#39;s it&#33;&#33;
     
  5. jwc1978

    jwc1978 New Member

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    Considering Alcorn State is a traditionally black school and still has a predominately black student body, I don&#39;t think "Honkies" would go over well as a mascot :)

    What many people don&#39;t know is that Florida State has the blessing of the Seminole tribe to use their name. They have endorsed the school publicly on more than one occasion.

    The Masoct at the University of Illinois (The fighting Illini) technically is not and Indian reference, it&#39;s french and it refered to a confederation between several tribes and the french people as well.

    When I lived in Mississippi, they threatened this same thing because our state flag contains the St. Andrew&#39;s Cross (Confederate X type battle flag). We held an election to determine whether people wanted to keep the flag or adopt a newly proposed one. The people voted to keep it, so we told the NCAA that they could basically stick it up their ass. Of course you can do that when one of your universities has the largest college baseball stadium in the country.
     
  6. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east &#039;neath the willow tree? Sex
    I think that if the authorities of the respective native american tribes OK the names, there&#39;s no problem. if they don&#39;t, the names should be changed. I&#39;m pretty sure there are still authorities for most of the tribes mentioned there, the only one(s) I&#39;m not certain about are the illini.
     
  7. cruztbone

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    My university is the San Jose State Spartans. I wonder if our Greek-American friends in the LPSG brotherhood object to that. I do believe that mascot names and characters do tend to objectivize those they claim to honor or represent, and that is hardly a good thing.
    Our local university , the University of CA Santa Cruz, has the banana slug as its mascot. It is a hermaphrodite arthropod, long , yellow and slimy. Needless to say, it is a wonderful source of local humor and pick -up lines.

    Any of you want to submit some of your better ideas for our local university students (either Spartans of San Jose or Banana slugs of Santa Cruz)? :evilgrin:
     
  8. jonb

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    Part of the reason the mascots are offensive is because missionary schools always used Indians as mascots. To give you an idea of missionary schools, they might moonlight as a child prostitution ring -- if you&#39;re lucky.
     
  9. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    The big difference is that with few exceptions, the terms referring to the Amerinds as team names aren&#39;t derogatory. The exceptions are Redskins, Redmen, Savages and possibly Sioux. Most Lakota I&#39;ve spoken with object to the name Sioux: it is a shortened form of the Ojibwa term Nadouessioux (French colonial spelling), which is undeniably pejorative. I&#39;ll defer to Jonb&#39;s opinion whether or not the Lakota find the word Sioux to be offensive. The word Indian is not offensive; it&#39;s the word most Native Americans use to refer to themselves and most have no objections to non-Indians using it either. Where&#39;s the malicios intent? I wouldn&#39;t object if a Florida team decided to call themselves The Latinos.
     
  10. GottaBigOne

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    The big difference is that with few exceptions, the terms referring to the Amerinds as team names aren&#39;t derogatory. The exceptions are Redskins, Redmen, Savages and possibly Sioux. Most Lakota I&#39;ve spoken with object to the name Sioux: it is a shortened form of the Ojibwa term Nadouessioux (French colonial spelling), which is undeniably pejorative. I&#39;ll defer to Jonb&#39;s opinion whether or not the Lakota find the word Sioux to be offensive. The word Indian is not offensive; it&#39;s the word most Native Americans use to refer to themselves and most have no objections to non-Indians using it either. Where&#39;s the malicios intent? I wouldn&#39;t object if a Florida team decided to call themselves The Latinos.
    [post=334689]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]
    The whole indian thing then would spark the debate about a team being named the "niggas" since black people refer to themselves as such all the time, usually in an endearing manner.
     
  11. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    That was part of my point. Of course black people would object to non-blacks calling them &#39;nigger&#39;, and well they should. The Amerinds, however, do not object to non-Amerinds calling them Indians. There&#39;s the difference.
     
  12. GottaBigOne

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    That was part of my point. Of course black people would object to non-blacks calling them &#39;nigger&#39;, and well they should. The Amerinds, however, do not object to non-Amerinds calling them Indians. There&#39;s the difference.
    [post=334698]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]
    there&#39;s a differnece between the word "nigger" and the word "nigga" or its further derivitives "Nyugga" "Nyugh" "Neegh" "Nyu"
    "Nagger" I believe is the most offensive of them all.
     
  13. GottaBigOne

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    I&#39;ve got an idea, just change the mascot of all the temas named the indians to a figure of ghandi&#33;
     
  14. jonb

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    The big difference is that with few exceptions, the terms referring to the Amerinds as team names aren&#39;t derogatory. The exceptions are Redskins, Redmen, Savages and possibly Sioux. Most Lakota I&#39;ve spoken with object to the name Sioux: it is a shortened form of the Ojibwa term Nadouessioux (French colonial spelling), which is undeniably pejorative. I&#39;ll defer to Jonb&#39;s opinion whether or not the Lakota find the word Sioux to be offensive. The word Indian is not offensive; it&#39;s the word most Native Americans use to refer to themselves and most have no objections to non-Indians using it either. Where&#39;s the malicios intent? I wouldn&#39;t object if a Florida team decided to call themselves The Latinos.
    [post=334689]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]
    Nadowessiouweg, actually.

    For the record, not all Sioux are Lakota. There are four regional dialects: Lakota, Dakota, Assiniboine, and Stoney. The L sound only appears in Lakota, and the D sound doesn&#39;t appear in Lakota at all. The N sound occasionally appears in Lakota and Dakota (and not just as an ASCII-friendly way of writing nasals).
     
  15. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    That&#39;s why I specified that it was the French colonial spelling. They transliterated Indian words as the heard them and according to French spelling conventions. Not surprisingly, they often weren&#39;t terribly accurate representations of the actual phonemes they heard.

    I know, but the Lakota and Dakota peoples were often referred to as Sioux. My question is whether you, and most of your fellow Indians, find &#39;Sioux&#39; to be an offensive word to designate your people?
     
  16. jonb

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    Yeah, actually "how" came from a bad case of that. Ho means "hello" or "yes" in Lakota; women say h&#261;. But the French transcribed it as hau. Someone got the idea this was pronounced hau rather than ho, hence "how".

    Sioux has a strange history. At points, it&#39;s been offensive. At points, it&#39;s been elevated almost to a mascot of our own. Nadowessiouweg means snakes in Ojibwa, so it&#39;s been used as a "Don&#39;t tread on me."
     
  17. SurferGirlCA

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    I don&#39;t believe in the notion of "political correctness" but that term is also thrown around by people so loosely to describe any action or decision or stance they don&#39;t support that it&#39;s lost some meaning for me.

    In terms of the original question, I have two thoughts:

    1. As a rule, I think the pov of the actual group feeling maligned/abused should be heard first and foremost. Sorry, but, for example, I just find it unbelievably arrogant when a white guy (oops, or gal) says something like "blacks just need to get over slavery already". I think that everyone is entitled to their pov and even has the right to speak it, I just can&#39;t imagine telling Native Americans how they should feel about how their tribal names/images are used.

    2. I also think the fact that Native Americans were hmmm well, without getting too "pc" here, basically conquered by the (mostly) European groups that settled this country, might have some impact on these issues. "Yes, we moved in and took over your land and pretty much wiped out your people, but on the other hand, we&#39;d love to honor you by using your name/image as the mascot for our college football team." I dunno, I might not be down with that, either. I think other examples I have heard like, "well, what about the Minnesota Vikings?", etc., are not analagous, sorry.

    Bottom line for me is that those people most directly impacted are the ones whose voices need to be heard. Personally, if a Native American mascot is not presented in a derogatory manner and is treated respectfully by the school in question, I don&#39;t think it should be a problem. However, I am 1/2 white and 1/2 latina, so I also don&#39;t think it&#39;s my call to make.
     
  18. DC_DEEP

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    I am just slightly confused... I can understand that a team called "Savages" would be an insult... but how is Florida&#39;s "Seminoles" perjorative?

    Perhaps we need a Constitutional amendment that ALL schools and sports teams in the US be named after native flora...

    Arkansas State University Daisies?
    Or how about the Dallas Bluebonnet Cheerleaders?
    Maybe you would be an avid supporter of the Denver Columbine football team? whoops, no, that one is too emotionally charged. Can&#39;t use flowers. Maybe just give them all the generic "team." UCLA Basketball Team. New York AL Baseball Team and New York NL Baseball Team and Boise State U Basketweaving Team. Um, is "team" going to be offensive to someone? I&#39;m sure it will, what will the politically correct term be?

    Here&#39;s a good case in point: I remember the World Book Encyclopedia entry on the different races being Negroid, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. My grandmother, with not a single hateful cell in her body, said something resembling "neh&#39;-gra", my Mom used the "politically-correct-at-the-time" term "colored," then it was Afro, then Black, then Afro-American, then African-American.

    Since it has been a few generations since my ancestors came to this country, I suppose I can no longer accurately refer to myself as a "European-American" and now I will be insulted if someone calls me "white" instead of "Arkansan American." Geez, where will it end? Some of these people need to grow up and quit LOOKING for things to be sensitive about.

    Another case in point: Some years back, a lawsuit was filed against Southwest Airlines, et. al. Seems one of the flight attendants, eager to get an on-time departure, announced on the intercom "eenie, meenie, minie, moe, grab a seat, it&#39;s time to go&#33;" A couple on the flight were outraged, and filed suit. When I was growing up, the part of that rhyme I remember was "catch a tiger by the toe." I was 41 years old before I learned that some people grew up saying nigger instead of tiger. If I looked hard enough, I could find all kinds of things to be insulted and offended by. Life is way too short and precious to be so insecure and defensive all the time.
     
  19. jonb

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    Flora? Fauna are much more useful.
     
  20. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    Animal rights activists will claim that animals are being exploited by representing groups involved in violent sports.
     
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