ND House Passes Abortion Ban

[lucky8]

Any volunteers in this thread? That's a lot of "babies" that need to find a womb asap

 

[Not_Punny]

Well, all I can say is that I used to be more open minded about abortion...

But the older I got, the more I realized that, as my father's sixth child, I wouldn't be sitting here typing if he had believed in abortion.

 

[simcha]

Well, all I can say is that I used to be more open minded about abortion...

But the older I got, the more I realized that, as my father's sixth child, I wouldn't be sitting here typing if he had believed in abortion.

And since you are such a dear and "child advocate" I expect you to be first in line to have those fertilized eggs left in fertility clinics in North Dakota be implanted in your womb. You should be glad to welcome more into your family and think of the noble cause you would be upholding. :smile:

 

[Not_Punny]

And since you are such a dear and "child advocate" I expect you to be first in line to have those fertilized eggs left in fertility clinics in North Dakota to be implanted in your womb. You should be glad to welcome more into your family and think of the noble cause you would be upholding. :smile:

Ahhhh, you know that I love ya, Simcha, but I am not a bleeding heart for fertilized eggs.

I do not know WHEN life begins, but I am a bleeding heart for a baby that has lived long enough to grow its own little beating heart.

I truly think that abortion needs to be hard to get. And I think that there ought to be consequences. I was only half kidding when I said ovaries and testicles ought to be removed -- if one is heartless enough to discard a life after it has survived long enough to resemble a little human, then one ought to be sterilized so that one cannot ever do it again. Period.

I think that would end the majority of abortions.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

The birth control pill, morning after pill and, of course, abortion are not dispensed/allowed in many parts of the United States. Claiming that these medicines are widely available, and therefore abortion and unwanted pregnancy unnecessary, is naive and doesn’t speak to the realities of regressive reproductive rights laws many individuals/couples face.

Further, some do believe the morning after pill is an act of abortion because the egg has been fertilized, and conception is when life begins, not implantation.

Imo, what a woman decides to do with her body is her business.
Laws like this merely weaken the foundation of personal rights, the least of which is medical privacy, in favor of a policy that forces new, unwanted life into a world where humanity at large has scarcely shown even a modicum of respect for it.

Good luck with that.

 

[Not_Punny]

I still think that sterilization ought to accompany abortion. Period. The father, the mother or both.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

Any volunteers in this thread? That's a lot of "babies" that need to find a womb asap

Only if you're serving that sperm with tomatoes? :biggrin1:

Well, all I can say is that I used to be more open minded about abortion...

But the older I got, the more I realized that, as my father's sixth child, I wouldn't be sitting here typing if he had believed in abortion.

Is that an issue with your family's values, their inability to use birth control, or the availability of abortion itself? I know that my grandmother, two aunts, and a cousin all had six children in the age of legal abortion, and none considered it. Not for a second.

Eta:

I still think that sterilization ought to accompany abortion. Period. The father, the mother or both.

Good, apply that to you and yours, and respect the private, personal and likely painful, decisions of others.

 

[MovingForward]

I personally would never have an abortion or wish anyone to. However I have no right to tell someone what to do with their body. If people are so pro-life their are plenty of kids that need adopting now.

 

[Not_Punny]

Only if you're serving that sperm with tomatoes? :biggrin1:



Is that an issue with your family's values, their inability to use birth control, or the availability of abortion itself? I know that my grandmother, two aunts, and a cousin all had six children in the age of legal abortion, and none considered it. Not for a second.

Eta:

Good, apply that to you and yours, and respect the private, personal and likely painful, decisions of others.

No, it is NOT the mother's body that gets an abortion, it's the child's body that bears the brunt of the procedure.

So the argument of, "it's my body" is actually a false argument.

- - - - -

Abortion is like plastic surgery.

Mostly, it is done for the convenience and edification of the patient.

True, some plastic surgery is medically and psychologically necessary, just like some abortions are medically necessary.

ANd just like insurance doesn't pay for elective plastic surgeries, insurance shouldn't pay for the wanton termination of life.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

Right. Most women barely have a portion of their birth control paid for by insurance, and you think they're allowing unfettered elective abortions? :biggrin1:

I, nor you, can state why any person decides to have an abortion. To assume you know, and to claim it is done unjustifiably, is just further evidence that you hold a wholly intolerant view of reproductive freedom that doesn't take into account individual ability to determine was is right for their body, as abortion is no cakewalk (indeed some claim the methods used in the U.S. are needlessly traumatic for the patient), and life. Tragic.

 

[Ed69]

I still think that sterilization ought to accompany abortion. Period. The father, the mother or both.

So my sister should have been sterilized because she was raped and chose to abort her rapists fetus?

There realy are some females that need to be told to "SHUT UP AND BEND OVER!!"

Please clarify,Cause you realy are not that dumb are you?

 

[Guy-jin]

Look at these pictures and tell me that abortion isn't murder.

By the time OTC tests can detect a pregnancy, the fetus already has "...a vertebral column, a bony jaw and clavicle, a primitive cranium, ribs, a developing nervous system, a closed circulatory system with a working heart, developing eyes, ears, and nose, lungs, limbs, hands, feet, a pancreas, a bladder, kidneys, a tongue, a larynx, a thyroid body, and germs of teeth."

If you don't want a child, use SEVERAL forms of birth control, sterilize yourself or abstain.

Abortions are NOT birth control.

I'm afraid that page is incorrect in calling those "fetuses". They're "embryos" at that stage. There is a difference.

A mouse embryo at the same stage also has those developing features and looks very much like that. Don't believe me?Google image search "mouse embryos" and see for yourself.

Humans are not the sums of their parts. And an embryo that has yet to fully differentiate into a fetus is not yet a human.

I'm not saying anything about abortions being right or wrong. I personally don't like them, and if I had ever been in a relationship with someone and had an accidental pregnancy, I'd be a father right now. But that doesn't change these facts.

All I'm really saying is that I'm tired of people telling us embryos are equivalent to babies. I'm tired of Conservatives being fine with IVF, but against abortion. If you must be against abortion, you also have to be willing to tell parents with fertility problems that you're sorry, but IVF is morally wrong. If you're not, you've got a serious moral dilemma that you're avoiding.

 

[Not_Punny]

I am talking about medically necessary vs. elective abortion.

Rape SHOULD be dealt with the morning after. There SHOULD be places one can go for counseling, medical treatment AND a morning-after pill. Pregnancy is only ONE of the possible adverse results of a rape. All possible results should be dealt with without shame or recrimination.

And as for the "general populace" there are different segments of the population.

Teens, for example: Schools SHOULD provide decent sex education without religion or parents getting in the way. And there SHOULD be free clinics that any teen can walk into for birth control methods and free STD checking. It makes my blood boil that we spend money teaching kids calculus (which most won't understand or need to know), yet we don't adequately teach the birds and the bees and sexual options. This would DRAMATICALLY reduce abortions, because teen abortions are ONE THIRD of abortions in America.

- - - - -

The problem with abortion is that it's a last resort. ANd the worst option.

We need to fix everything BEFORE that.

But in the meantime, YES. Anyone who is getting an ELECTIVE abortion who is old enough to know better. YES. Sterilize. It's only fair.

 

[Not_Punny]

I'm afraid that page is incorrect in calling those "fetuses". They're "embryos" at that stage. There is a difference.

A mouse embryo at the same stage also has those developing features and looks very much like that. Don't believe me?Google image search "mouse embryos" and see for yourself.

Humans are not the sums of their parts. And an embryo that has yet to fully differentiate into a fetus is not yet a human.

I'm not saying anything about abortions being right or wrong. I personally don't like them, and if I had ever been in a relationship with someone and had an accidental pregnancy, I'd be a father right now. But that doesn't change these facts.

All I'm really saying is that I'm tired of people telling us embryos are equivalent to babies. I'm tired of Conservatives being fine with IVF, but against abortion. If you must be against abortion, you also have to be willing to tell parents with fertility problems that you're sorry, but IVF is morally wrong. If you're not, you've got a serious moral dilemma that you're avoiding.

Hey there, Guy-Jin.

You're right.

But I am ALMOST talking about fetuses. According to Wikipedia: "The fetal stage begins about eight weeks after fertilization."

I start getting uppity at the point the heart starts beating. This occurs at about 6 weeks, and definitely at 7 weeks.

So I'm one or two weeks off. Shoot me (with your best shot)! :biggrin:


- - - -

OMG! You're right about the mouse embryo!

 

[Not_Punny]

But at 8 weeks, there is no confusing a human fetus from anything else.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

I am talking about medically necessary vs. elective abortion.

Rape SHOULD be dealt with the morning after. There SHOULD be places one can go for counseling, medical treatment AND a morning-after pill. Pregnancy is only ONE of the possible adverse results of a rape. All possible results should be dealt with without shame or recrimination.

And as for the "general populace" there are different segments of the population.

Teens, for example: Schools SHOULD provide decent sex education without religion or parents getting in the way. And there SHOULD be free clinics that any teen can walk into for birth control methods and free STD checking. It makes my blood boil that we spend money teaching kids calculus (which most won't understand or need to know), yet we don't adequately teach the birds and the bees and sexual options. This would DRAMATICALLY reduce abortions, because teen abortions are ONE THIRD of abortions in America.

- - - - -

The problem with abortion is that it's a last resort. ANd the worst option.

We need to fix everything BEFORE that.

But in the meantime, YES. Anyone who is getting an ELECTIVE abortion who is old enough to know better. YES. Sterilize. It's only fair.

It would only be “fair”, when your “should(s)” are a reality. Problem is, they will not be universally, so abortion is there and will always be an option--certainly for all who have the means to escape from the baby utopia some hope to create to find one.

"In the meantime", why not show some respect for life right now by adopting one of the 500,000+ children in America’s foster care system.

 

[Not_Punny]

A lot of things would be different if I were in control.

Animals wouldn't be tortured into plastic meat packages at the supermarket. High school would have more life-preparation courses and less parroting. And obese people wouldn't be able to buy animal products or candy.

Oh, and I'd also forbid people on LPSG to tell other people what to do... which is is such a wonderfully hypocritical statement that I hereby give myself a Darwin award.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

A lot of things would be different if I were in control.

Animals wouldn't be tortured into plastic meat packages at the supermarket. High school would have more life-preparation courses and less parroting. And obese people wouldn't be able to buy animal products or candy.

Oh, and I'd also forbid people on LPSG to tell other people what to do... which is is such a wonderfully hypocritical statement that I hereby give myself a Darwin award.

:biggrin1: May I proudly wear the Darwin award with you, along with a big L loser painted on my forehead for the same?

 

[Not_Punny]

:biggrin1: May I proudly wear the Darwin award with you, along with a big L loser painted on my forehead for the same?

:dance:

The day that I can't see the idiot looking back at me in my own mirror is the day I'll probably be six feet under.

 

[Ed69]

I am talking about medically necessary vs. elective abortion.

Rape SHOULD be dealt with the morning after. There SHOULD be places one can go for counseling, medical treatment AND a morning-after pill

That would have been great ,but in 1978 when my sister was raped there was nowhere to go.And bye your standard,My nephews would not be here!