New Afghanistan law: Men can demand sex from wife every 4th night

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Apr 5, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    A new Afghan law says Shiite men can demand sex from their wives every four days and keep them indoors indefinitely.

    This thread is not a joke.

    Hillary Clinton met privately this past Tuesday with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, but it's unclear if she pressed him to reverse the law he just signed. Some lawmakers claim the law was never debated and was rushed through paliament. Karzai has been accused of signing the legislation to bolster his re-election prospects.

    The law - which has not yet been published but was leaked by a UN agency - rules that a Shiite woman must seek her husband's permission to go outside (Karzai says this portion of the law is being mistranslated by western media outlets; he says the woman can in fact go outside on her own "in emergencies") .

    "Obedience, readiness for intercourse and not leaving the house without the permission of the husband are the duties of the wife," states the law.

    "As long as the husband is not traveling, he has the right to have sexual intercourse with his wife every fourth night," it says (the woman can legally tell her husband "no" in the case of legitimate illness; the law also attempts to protect Shiite women from sexual neglect, mandating that men must take their wives to bed "at least once every four months").

    Also, in a divorce, a father always gets custody of any children, according to the law.


    "Women's basic freedoms are being sacrificed for the political and electoral gain of a few parliamentarians," Human Rights Watch's Brad Adams said. Critics say the legislation undermines hard-won rights for women enacted after the fall of the Taliban's strict Islamist regime.


    This story's been getting a good deal of attention in the past 2 days, and apparently Barack Obama had a session of "tough talk" with Karzai - via telephone? Barack's still in Europe - because this afternoon Karzai released a statement. He said the law will be "studied" and "possibly sent back to parliament for review" (in consultation with scholars and religious leaders). He's ordered the Justice Ministry to review the law, and if anything in it contavenes the country's constitution or Shariah law, then "measures will be taken."


    why are we fighting for Afghanistan's freedom from al-Qaeda -- when the extremist Taliban (who are sympathetic with al-Qaeda) are allowed to influence parliamentary laws?

    When women are treated as slaves, and human rights are being actively repealed, and extremist Taliban members can be elected into public office, it muddles up the issues for me of what exactly we wish to accomplish there.
     
  2. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. Not by the slant of your thread but by the fact that for the first time, we vaguely disagree.

    This doesn't muddy waters for me much, really, in that I'm aware that we wouldn't be there at all if it weren't solely for our own self interest. There's no altruism involved and it was never our intent to do anything by or for the Afghanis. That said, however, we are in a position to influence them with the massive amounts of money we're putting into the country and as Obama said today, we'll continue to work both openly and behind the scenes to encouage them to bring their laws into compliance with generally accepted principals of human rights. Unfortunately, this is more difficult when it becomes an issue of cultural relevance.
     
  3. B_cigarbabe

    B_cigarbabe New Member

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    Jason els gave me a great history lesson in how men view women in Islamic countries.
    Here are just a few points from that lesson; women who are raped are at fault because
    they throw out some kind of "sexual aura" that makes men attracted to them and so they cannot stop themselves, but it is the woman who is ultimately to blame not the man just for being a woman....?
    Jason if you're online could you rewrite what you sent to me please?
    It was titled a woman's place in Saudi Arabia I believe.
    We were talking about a Muslim woman who I had been talking to for a bit and one of the members was under the impression that a man mightv'e posted her picture without her consent which wasn't the case fortunately.
    I found the whole concept very dismal and sad.
    But on the other hand how about the US working to eliminate homelessness
    poverty,elderly homelessness and the myriad other problems we have?
    How about minding our own business for a change
    and staying home to help our own people?
    How about "Treatment on Demand" for a start?
    C.B.:saevil:
     
    #3 B_cigarbabe, Apr 5, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009
  4. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Puts new meaning to 'smack my bitch up'....
     
  5. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    But... we must respect their religion. Meanwhile, here on LPSG we'll shit on every and any vein of Christianity.

    Speaking of Afghans and smacking they bitches up, and the "respect of their religion we must afford them, while Christianity is the root of all evil LPSG rhetoric"... whew....

    ""She came out of her house with another guy who was not her husband, so we must punish her. There are boundaries you cannot cross," he said."

    Imagine if she was gay...37 lashings is nothing in them parts.

    Taliban hand out 37 lashes to girl seen with married man | World news | guardian.co.uk
     
  6. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Please. Amuse the crew, and quantify this... for once.

    Naive is back in fashion these days. They flog a teenage girl for nothing, and your boy is going to "encourage" them behind the scenes.

    That Kool-Aid is might refreshing still, it seems. Fuck Obama, smack that bitch up another 37 times.
     
  7. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Nick:

    I stayed home to watch the North Korea long-range rocket reporting on CNN, then googled this story (above) because I remembered hearing about it yesterday on talk radio.


    A Shiite woman must seek her husband's permission to go outside.

    That sentence gives me chills. These issues are so culturally backward, I can't wrap my head around it. "Seeking permission" to go outside sounds worse than the forced sex.

    Weren't human rights improvements happening in Afghanistan? Some parliamentary members are women. What did United States miltary actions do to foster a return toward Sharia Law?

    We should never impose democracy on these backward cultures, because they'll spit in your face then attack you with pipe bombs and cell phone-detonated explosive devices once you've liberated them.
     
    #7 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Apr 5, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009
  8. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

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    It is the "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan", so I imagine their laws would reflect some Islamic traditions - such as, each spouse having the right to sexual satisfaction and can demand it or divorce due to sexual dissatisfaction.

    As far as custody of children, the Koran does not state which parent has the right to custody - however, traditionally, men earn a wage and that's why some countries give them custody after the nursing/toddler (hidana) age. Even though there are parts of the Hadiths (Sunan Abi Dawud, Book of Divorce, 1938), which state a woman is equally entitled to raise her children.

    Actually, I think Abu Bakr, in the story of Umar's divorce, states it is better for the child to stay with the mother for nurturing until it reaches an age where it can decide to live with the father.

    So, I think a lot of these draconian mores are just in place due to habit and Afghanistan (and similar states) being decidedly androcentric societies - I do not think that will change anytime soon.

    Eta: The whole staying in the house thing is bullshit, but you have to consider the division of the sexes and how important honor is to their society. I'm not sure if this is still the practice, but in Taliban Afghanistan, women were examined by male doctors (or whatever passed for a medical professional in their area) through a barrier and did not speak directly to him. A change in political regime is not going to change that aspect of society, imo.


    Who is his "boy"? :confused:
     
    #8 D_Fiona_Farvel, Apr 5, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009
  9. rawbone8

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    There are, no doubt, idealistic boy scouts and unconcerned pragmatists who may weigh in in on either side of this as an issue that ultimately influences public support for the war efforts in Afghanistan.

    It's a public relations nightmare for the West.

    Despite acknowledging and condemning it from a human rights perspective, pragmatists will look at the issue as being an irritant, but not terribly relevant to the goals they want to achieve with this war. If it interferes with their ability to prosecute efforts to weaken and destroy the power of Al Queda, they may have to devise a political face-saving solution, in order to carry on.

    Anti-war propagandists now have an arsenal of arguments and emotional moral issues, not to mention guilt, to persuasively employ. Idealists who supported the war may lose their appetite for it if they can't abide the sense of compromise required to continue on. Politically, this hands unwilling countries involved in the war effort the cover of an "exit with honour," if they choose it.
     
    #9 rawbone8, Apr 5, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009
  10. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Except in the actual video for the song, the person doing the smacking up to everyone is a female. That would certainly not apply in Afghanistan, although I can sense most women there have that kind of feeling from time to time.

    But nice try anyhow...
    http://vodpod.com/watch/200321-vide...ck-my-bitch-the-dailymotion-share-your-videos

    That is such an over-exaggeration I don't even know where to begin. LOL!!

    You're the one saying it. If anything, people think religion as a whole needs a do-over. Of course, since you think Christianity is the only religion to follow you assume that whenever anyone on LPSG critiques religion that they are only mentioning the one you follow.

    Isn't it nice to know how your failed assumptions continue to make you appear irrational? It's become very common of you as of late.

    Let's not imagine if she was a lesbian. That way we can stay on focus with this particular story and not watch you rant and rave about your pathetic feelings of "fake oppression" based on the opinions of people on a big penis site. Just let me know when you and the rest of your ilk are going to march on Washington and demand your 40 acres, OK? :rolleyes:
     
    #10 B_VinylBoy, Apr 5, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009
  11. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Will, buddy, I'm not saying for a moment that I'm not revolted by any of this. You know me better than that. My great uncle, my name-sake, was ambassador to Saudi Arabia for 4 years and Turkey for 5 and specialized in the Middle East and the stories he used to tell me would make your hair stand on end.

    But as far as I can see it, the only reason we're in Afghanistan is to attempt to root out the Taliban. We never intended to go there to effect social change, not initially. If our presence has created an environment in which progress which had been made has been reversed (and why would that surprise me; it's happened before) then we are directly responsible. And, in keeping with our morals and values, I think we ought to make every conceivable effort to pressure the Afghanis to change these heinous laws. Cultural mores, unfortunately, will be much more difficult.
     
    #11 B_Nick8, Apr 5, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009
  12. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    The word is "diplomacy". Look it up.

    And I'll be happy to smack you another 37 times. Bend over.
     
    #12 B_Nick8, Apr 5, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009
  13. Pendlum

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    There was a movie/mini documentary/whatever it was called made about abusive Muslim husbands. It wasn't taken very well by some Muslims of course, and so the guy who made it got knifed in the middle of the street, and on that knife was a death threat to the woman who acted in the movie.

    What you said just reminded me of that story.

    faceking, I can shit on any religion I want! Which happens to be all of them. I try not to do it all the time though.
     
  14. thadjock

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    cry me a fukin river.......

    why don't u google the new iraqi government that by law considers homosexuality a crime punishable by death? the same government we spent 4500 american lives installing.

    islamic women have been opressed for thousands of years, the fact that they're now willing to put it in writing actually signals a new era of transparency.

    and while ur ranking human rights abuses, u might want to google darfur, i think having ur entire village slaughtered like cattle is a little worse than asking permission to go outside or having to put out for your husband once a week.

    unbunch ur panties and get real
     
    #14 thadjock, Apr 5, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009
  15. AG08

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    Canada is pretty pissed off about this as well. When the news broke, we questioned what we were doing there in the first place. The Afghan ambassador was read the riot act by our government as we are not fighting and spending money there for this to happen. Canada has supplied over $150 million dollars to the Afghan government to help rebuild the country and provide adequate infastructure for Afghans to have a decent standard of living. Canada, who also has a the largest combat role in Afghanistan of all the coalition partners, has lost 116 soldiers in the fight against the Taliban including a female soldier (I'm pretty sure she wasn't fighting for the enslavement of her own gender). We are also providing assistance in training the Afghan national army and their police forces as the RCMP is the most respected police force in the world (the UN has called on them to provide police training to many countries that have experienced upheaval and drastic political change). Of all the coalition partners, Canada has lost the most soldiers in the war against Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. Both the U.S. and Afghan government (Bush now Obama and Karzai personally) have asked Canada to stay beyond the end mission date of 2011. If the government there doesn't back down on this, they can pretty much consider Canada's role there a done deal in 2011, maybe even sooner. Close to 50% of Canadians polled after this news broke wanted our troops out of there. There are signs that the Afgan government will back down on this. They cannot afford to alienate the west as their grip on power will loosen if the coalition forces leave too soon. The Afghan ambassador in Canada said that they are reconsidering the law, and asked the Canadian public to forgive Afghan for being "immature" in this regard.
     
  16. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Good for Canada. Although I doubt the US will pull out of Afghanistan over this and I think the Afghanis know it, it's that and similar kinds of pressure that will bear fruit.
     
  17. Pitbull

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    Seems to be differing thoughts on what constitutes sexual satisfaction:

    So men must have sex every 4 days to be satisfied
    Women every 4 months to be satisfied.

    Sounds like and American married couple.
     
  18. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

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    :wink: Then this part of the law shouldn't be distasteful to your American sensibilities. Actually, the spouse can demand sex at any point. I think the standards for the law are fairly arbitrary, but have been created to give a basic framework for a satisfying sexual relationship in marriage.
     
  19. AG08

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    I don't think Canada will pull out early as we have made a promise to stay until 2011. It is however a good tactic to use to pressure the Afghan government to respect all of their citizen's rights. If they want to ever reintegrate back into the world community they will have to show that they have progressed since the days of the Taliban's backward rules of law.
     
  20. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    Canadian Foreign Minister Lawrence Cannon has just announced that his Afghani counterpart told him earlier today that the new law will be changed.
    The law in Afghanistan would respect the rights of women, he was supposed to have said.
    Canadian officials said that the new law has been "stopped, halted ... it's back to the drawing board."
    Let's hope.
     
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