NEW AIRPORT XRAY MACHINE AND PRIVACY

[Dr Rock]

while I watched the whole thing happen from astor place on 9/11, I gotta tell you there are many worse things in the world. imagine the government doing something like that to its OWN people - say, the people who don't agree with its increasingly authoritarian legislation, for example.

 

[txquis]

Why didnt you come over Dr Rock?
I was up at 25th and Bway......

You make a good point....
Bill Mahr made a similar good point on american television and
was fired, poor man.

My Brit friend Helen was a great leveler during the 9/11 ordeal.
She took it in stride and said, "I went through the London blitz as a child.
I'm used to being attacked".

We all know that no matter what we think about this it will get worse,
before better/easier......lets enjoy the fact that it is still only
at borders/airports now, for later on it will filter down
to the local movie house, bank, etc.
(sigh.......imagining myself shoeless and frisked as i do my banking)

 

[KinkGuy]

The NTSB itself has stated that at least half the cargo and baggage on any given flight in the US is unscreened. But they're going to make sure I don't smuggle a fuckin' Bic lighter on the plane in my jock. The point I am trying to make IMHO, is that all this passenger screening is bullshit because they are leaving all of our other vulnerable areas wide open to attack and infiltration and that seems to be ok because as ordinary citizens we don't see it every day.

 

[jay_too]

Originally posted by txquis@May 26 2005, 03:50 PM
I dont think freedom at the airport gate was the freedom Ben Franklin was talking about.

[post=314881]Quoted post[/post]​

That is either trivia or I do not understand.

jay

 

[Irvy]

I'm from Northern Ireland, and have lived with the feelings that Americans have had since 9/11 my entire life. And you know what? I'm 30, and I missed the worst of it. Even so, I know people who have lost people to the troubles. I was with a friend when she found out her dad had been shot by the IRA. I know every Christmas that if I go Christmas shopping, i run a pretty much 50/50 chance that I'm going to end up in the middle of a bomb scare.

And no, freedom is not a price that can be paid. If you do that, even a little, they win.

I know that 9/11 was a big shock. It was without a doubt the largest terrorist attack ever. However, in NI, we've lost more people than that (and our entire population is only 1.5 million), but over 40 years, drip after drip, never knowing if today is that day, and that is real terror.

And the only way to beat them is to rise above it. Last year, I was walking into town, only to find out that most of it was closed off, because they had a reported bomb. I've been in bomb scares before, we're hideously desensitised to them. All I wanted to know was where I could go, and how far into town I could get, so I could do what I needed to do. I didn't run away home cos there might be a bomb. Fuck the terrorists! I'm going into town.

When we allow ourselves to change our lives to suit the terrorists, we let them win without blowing a single thing up.

 

[KinkGuy]

Thank you Irvy.

 

[Dr Rock]

Originally posted by Irvy@May 27 2005, 12:23 AM
I know that 9/11 was a big shock. It was without a doubt the largest terrorist attack ever.

[post=315036]Quoted post[/post]​

that really depends how you define terrorism

 

[ashlar]

Originally posted by Irvy@May 26 2005, 07:23 PM
I'm from Northern Ireland, and have lived with the feelings that Americans have had since 9/11 my entire life. And you know what? I'm 30, and I missed the worst of it. Even so, I know people who have lost people to the troubles. I was with a friend when she found out her dad had been shot by the IRA. I know every Christmas that if I go Christmas shopping, i run a pretty much 50/50 chance that I'm going to end up in the middle of a bomb scare.

And no, freedom is not a price that can be paid. If you do that, even a little, they win.

I know that 9/11 was a big shock. It was without a doubt the largest terrorist attack ever. However, in NI, we've lost more people than that (and our entire population is only 1.5 million), but over 40 years, drip after drip, never knowing if today is that day, and that is real terror.

And the only way to beat them is to rise above it. Last year, I was walking into town, only to find out that most of it was closed off, because they had a reported bomb. I've been in bomb scares before, we're hideously desensitised to them. All I wanted to know was where I could go, and how far into town I could get, so I could do what I needed to do. I didn't run away home cos there might be a bomb. Fuck the terrorists! I'm going into town.

When we allow ourselves to change our lives to suit the terrorists, we let them win without blowing a single thing up.

[post=315036]Quoted post[/post]​

Bravo!!!
Well said.

 

[txquis]

Well...as noble and right as i think our thoughts and agreement on this are,
we are still barefoot and xrayed
at the airport.

hmmmmmmmm.

 

[DadsAreUs]

Originally posted by EFH33+May 26 2005, 02:05 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EFH33 &#064; May 26 2005, 02:05 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-KinkGuy@May 25 2005, 06:35 PM
If I actually thought any of the grandstanding and showboating by the Fed&#39;s would really curb or prevent aircraft terrorism, I would gladly strip down in the middle of the airport. However, it is ONLY the flying public being subjected to "advanced security measures." Our ports are wide open. US mail carried on the very same aircraft with strip searched passengers is only rarely if ever screened; parcels and air cargo fly unchecked on virtually all passenger aircraft. And your checked baggage is loaded unscreened as well at hundreds of airports. Security my hairy, traveling ass.


Edit: And let us not forget the amazing security of our open borders.

[post=314582]Quoted post[/post]​

If you feel this way then don&#39;t you think this is a good thing? I agree with you, but the way they got us the last time was by hijacking planes and flying them into buildings. I&#39;ll do whatever they ask me to if it means my safety.

[post=314839]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]
The way they got us on 9/11 was by playing on the expectations of passengers that, if they cooperate with the terrorists, they will remain safe. Previous hijackings have used the safe return of the plane and passengers as a bargaining chip. Now that that is no longer the case no one will ever sit quietly in their seats again while terrorists take over a plane. Thus the tactics behind what happened on 9/11 only worked that one day. So the logic behind confiscating eyebrow tweezers (I get this one, annoying hair) totally eludes me. Does anyone think that passengers would sit quietly in their seats on a hijakced plane out of fear of being jabbed with tweezers? They may as well cut our hands off before boarding, since under soome circumstances, they can be made to form fists.

 

[txquis]

Thats great, mistergrasso...

I just heard they are going to provide me with slippers so i dont
have to be barefooted at the airport.
They could give us bowling shoes and let us play a game while we wait.

 

[13788]

Snicklet69: you guys should just be proud of what you have it&#39;s awesome&#33;

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Yeah, but some of us are chronic introverts.

 

[KinkGuy]

I often travel wearing my Utilikilt. Certainly makes things easier if they wanna&#39; see the boys or do a body cavity search or more closely examine my body jewelry and make sure it isn&#39;t going to blow up. OK, and I get off on it.

 

[Spork]

The obvious preventative measure for any airplane hijacking, and not just those from 9/11, is reinforced cockpit doors. If hijackers can&#39;t get to the cockpit, they&#39;re not hijackers. Let&#39;s see box cutters get through plate steel...yeah, right.

The pilots&#39; union had been asking for this for decades before 9/11, but the airlines refused because it was "too expensive".

We&#39;ve spent all this money on security, yet cockpit doors are still flimsy veneer that you can basically punch through. Why is that?

Consider this: perhaps your safety is not the primary objective. If it were, cockpit doors would have been reinforced decades ago.

Perhaps all this searching, tracking, and profiling is for different reasons?

Look at the UK: they want to put a GPS in everyone&#39;s car, so the government will know exactly where you drive and when you drive there. They say it&#39;s so they can charge road usage tax, and that will be a nice way to defray the gigantic cost of tracking tens of millions of cars 24/7. But think about it: there are hundreds of ways to get more road revenue that don&#39;t require a gigantic IT infrastructure and retrofitting every single car in the country. Perhaps there are different reasons?

Reasons that involve large organizations wanting to perpetuate themselves and grow by maintaining constant surveillance over every single person in the area they control?

Sure, you&#39;re "free to travel" in a "free country" -- so long as you don&#39;t travel by car, by bus, or by plane, or on a public road, or on private property.

Finally, the full quote:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Ben Franklin

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

You&#39;re on a roll Spork, and as fellow Brit, yeah, it&#39;s nuts the measures trying to be introduced. Anyway, maybe they need to hint the benefits of megabus.com more, huh?

 

[Freddie53]

I think those machines that reveal a very graphic nude picture of what you have under your clothes is an idea to be explored.

First, let&#39;s have George Bush go through and then publish his "nude" picture in all the newspapes, internet sites. Then The VP Dick Cheney, the Supreme Court and all members of Congress should do this as well.

And all the foreign leaders coming to Washington for consultation should do this as well. We could create a gallery. The guys without balls would be brought out of the closet. Let&#39;s not forget the spouses of these people. We want "nakid" pictures of both men and women.

Eventually we can have a national gallery of everyone. Wouldn&#39;t it be great? Movie stars, teachers, preachers. Shit. Let&#39;s include everyone one from birth. Our "child admirers" can be given opportunities to enjoy the "pictures" as well.

And we can download the best for future viewing.

After a year or two, we would then be ready to all become nudists. All compliments of the fundies. Isn&#39;t life ironic?

 

[jonb]

Bullshit&#33; had homeland security. (Yes, I have free HBO, Showtime, and Cinemax for three months.) And yes, they stung a guy by having two porn stars have sex while a "terrorist" gets away with a car loaded with "bombs". The homeland security guy was an idiot.

One good thing about Bush is, NAFTA is strained. Neither Mexico nor Canada wants anything to do with Shrubbery.

 

[chris88]

Originally posted by jay_too@May 22 2005, 03:13 PM
At DFW a lady told me to stop and called another lady to look at my x-ray. After a short conference, they let me go on through with no questions or comments. When I was picking up my stuff, I noticed them smirking.

Maybe I am paranoid, but then again, with my pockets empty, what were they looking at?

I do not believe such devices are being utilized in the US yet. I flew out of DFW just weeks ago and all they had was the traditional metal detector for peoples&#39; bodies.

 

[chris88]

Originally posted by Dr Rock@May 23 2005, 09:55 PM
the issue here isn&#39;t strangers seeing your dick - I doubt anyone really cares much about that in and of itself. it&#39;s the principle of surveillance and invasion of people&#39;s personal space and privacy by authorities.

Precisely, I think this thread is ignoring that. We must at least give a thought before we roll over and be searched more and mroe invasively without probable cause.

Just because I&#39;m not bashful, that does not mean that I want people viewing x-rays which reveal my covered body. Just because I&#39;m not hiding things in my house, that doesn&#39;t mean I want the government monitoring it.