new car for wife- Elantra, Civic, Forte, Cruz or ?
- Thread starter Frnkd213
- Start date
As far as the small cars the MINI is one of the best and if one wants fun to drive with good fuel economy this rings the bell and I am a world class gear head.
Genreal Motors in 2011 and 2012 has some of the best looking vehicles on the market, but the engineering and even marketing is not oriented towards the consumer getting a great car but towards GM making a great profit.
I retired from a business supplying vehicles to the movie and television industry a few years ago. I started that business with late 1970's Dodge 1 ton Dually's with 440 V8 gasoline engines. I bought 4 trucks from a construction company when they were about seven years old. Most at that time had about 75,000 miles on the odometer. I drove those trucks towing huge 3 car gooseneck trailers to well over 300,000 miles and had outstanding service from them. The accountant said "new trucks" and when I went back to Dodge emissions had dictated no more 440's. The next batch were Ford F-350's with 460 V8 engines. Remember that the original 6.9 diesel at that time did not have the power that the 460 produced. The Fords again gave outstanding service with few breakdowns and great reliability. The main problem with the Ford 1 ton dually's was fuel mileage. Those trucks were measured not in miles per gallon but in gallons per mile when loaded. When Living in Los Angeles I took one of those trucks and went to Fresno to retrieve a '59 Cadillac Flat top. With a single car trailer the only thing that the guy who purchased the car had to pay for was the fuel and my food for that trip. (He got a great deal) and he was flabbergasted when that Ford dually sucked down nearly 39 gallons of regular gasoline between the top beginning end of the Grapevine and Long Beach California. That truck with a full load was the bad mileage champ at less than 5 miles per gallon fully loaded. The 460 pulled well with great torque but you'd think it was a fire hose not a fuel line.
The fuel was horrific and one of my competitors just loved Chevy's. I purchased (5) Chevrolet crew cab 4x4 dually's. One to be used by me was a 350 and the rest were 454 V8's. The truck with the 350 only blew one engine. The target replacement at 80,000 miles was perfect and gave good service. The 454 trucks were among the most poorly built and trouble prone trucks I had ever owned. They did get better mileage in that towing or empty it was about 7.5 miles per gallon. The 454 V8's with California emissions started blowing in spectacular fashion spraying pistons and putting pieces of connecting rods through the side of the engine blocks at about 45,000 miles. This began a saga of repeated engine and transmission replacements in those trucks. By the time I went back to Ford 7.3 Powerstrokes one of those trucks had undergone 5 engine replacements. I discovered a midwest engine builder and at the time started buying 502 towing motors from him rather than GM and those engines started to hold together.
California emissions inspections would not allow the installation of tubing headers. When I dumped the Chevrolets I had a total of nearly 40 cracked exhaust manifolds from those trucks left over which were scrapped. On the Chevrolets I also experienced splitting of the right rear brake line on all (5) trucks. This was not a flex line but was instead the metal tubing running from the weight sensing proportioning valve in the rear to the right rear backing plate. One truck digested two of those lines all split in nearly the same place. The Chevrolets also suffered from repeated problems with the Air Conditioning Compressors all of them having had replacement of more than one. All in all GM made a tremendous profit from me on that fleet of Chevrolet Trucks during the time I had them. These trucks indeed did carry very heavy loads, but they had added engine oil coolers and very large transmission oil coolers from the beginning. They were driven by good competent people in a conservative manner and the lubricant changes were done at 3,000 miles for the engines and 10,000 on the automatic transmissions. These were just complete and total junk! In my car loving years I have enjoyed a number of very good GM cars. I had a 73 Olds Delta 88 Royale Convertible that I loved and a 72 Chevrolet Kingswood Estate Station wagon that made it to 305,00 miles with only two transmissions and a new timing chain. I had a '73 Cadillac Fleetwood that had been celebrity owned and it also served me very well going to nearly 300,000 and at that mileage it looked like a brand new car because it had been well cared for.
I have also been a Corvette Guy having owned a total of (4) of them over the years. The '66 Stingray was a great car, the '71 454 Stingray was a great car, the '84 C4 with "Cease Fire" injection was mediocre and the '87 was again an outstanding car in every way. The '84 was given to me in trade for some old movie cars that I had been stuck with and it was a red on red job with the "rattle your teeth" handling package. When I got rid of it it needed about $3,500 in work, so I just decided to dump it.
As a gear head and because of my years in the business I still have numerous contacts in the business and friends who work for the big three american manufacturers. What car do I tend to prefer these days? For passenger cars I tend to favor Mercedes and BMW turbo-diesels. Living where I do they are comfortable, and even with diesel fuel at a premium price I find that if the engines are properly maintained the fuel mileage more than makes up for it. The new performance diesels are a shocker with zero resemblance to the slow banging "smokin-oldies" of decades past. My last Benz Diesel made it over 525,000 miles before giving up the ghost. I paid only $2,500 for that car and when I find another one in great shape with reasonable mileage I will grab that one and start over again with another one. For trucks I would tend to go with Ford. The new 6.7 diesel is appearing to be a winner with few problems. It makes over 400 horsepower, over 800 ft lbs of torque and in the process gets reasonable fuel mileage for an 8,500 pound vehicle. The new Dodge trucks are OK if they have the Aisin Transmission, but the Chrysler Built transmissions behind the Cummins are total junk. The Chevy Duramax based on the alloys used is not an engine that is easily rebuilt much like the Cadillac "Death Star" of years gone by. The Allison transmission is excellent, but the backing of the product by GM is not and it is my understanding living in a farming area these days that the GM dealers still deny warranty claims right and left. . . . . .
Genreal Motors in 2011 and 2012 has some of the best looking vehicles on the market, but the engineering and even marketing is not oriented towards the consumer getting a great car but towards GM making a great profit.
I retired from a business supplying vehicles to the movie and television industry a few years ago. I started that business with late 1970's Dodge 1 ton Dually's with 440 V8 gasoline engines. I bought 4 trucks from a construction company when they were about seven years old. Most at that time had about 75,000 miles on the odometer. I drove those trucks towing huge 3 car gooseneck trailers to well over 300,000 miles and had outstanding service from them. The accountant said "new trucks" and when I went back to Dodge emissions had dictated no more 440's. The next batch were Ford F-350's with 460 V8 engines. Remember that the original 6.9 diesel at that time did not have the power that the 460 produced. The Fords again gave outstanding service with few breakdowns and great reliability. The main problem with the Ford 1 ton dually's was fuel mileage. Those trucks were measured not in miles per gallon but in gallons per mile when loaded. When Living in Los Angeles I took one of those trucks and went to Fresno to retrieve a '59 Cadillac Flat top. With a single car trailer the only thing that the guy who purchased the car had to pay for was the fuel and my food for that trip. (He got a great deal) and he was flabbergasted when that Ford dually sucked down nearly 39 gallons of regular gasoline between the top beginning end of the Grapevine and Long Beach California. That truck with a full load was the bad mileage champ at less than 5 miles per gallon fully loaded. The 460 pulled well with great torque but you'd think it was a fire hose not a fuel line.
The fuel was horrific and one of my competitors just loved Chevy's. I purchased (5) Chevrolet crew cab 4x4 dually's. One to be used by me was a 350 and the rest were 454 V8's. The truck with the 350 only blew one engine. The target replacement at 80,000 miles was perfect and gave good service. The 454 trucks were among the most poorly built and trouble prone trucks I had ever owned. They did get better mileage in that towing or empty it was about 7.5 miles per gallon. The 454 V8's with California emissions started blowing in spectacular fashion spraying pistons and putting pieces of connecting rods through the side of the engine blocks at about 45,000 miles. This began a saga of repeated engine and transmission replacements in those trucks. By the time I went back to Ford 7.3 Powerstrokes one of those trucks had undergone 5 engine replacements. I discovered a midwest engine builder and at the time started buying 502 towing motors from him rather than GM and those engines started to hold together.
California emissions inspections would not allow the installation of tubing headers. When I dumped the Chevrolets I had a total of nearly 40 cracked exhaust manifolds from those trucks left over which were scrapped. On the Chevrolets I also experienced splitting of the right rear brake line on all (5) trucks. This was not a flex line but was instead the metal tubing running from the weight sensing proportioning valve in the rear to the right rear backing plate. One truck digested two of those lines all split in nearly the same place. The Chevrolets also suffered from repeated problems with the Air Conditioning Compressors all of them having had replacement of more than one. All in all GM made a tremendous profit from me on that fleet of Chevrolet Trucks during the time I had them. These trucks indeed did carry very heavy loads, but they had added engine oil coolers and very large transmission oil coolers from the beginning. They were driven by good competent people in a conservative manner and the lubricant changes were done at 3,000 miles for the engines and 10,000 on the automatic transmissions. These were just complete and total junk! In my car loving years I have enjoyed a number of very good GM cars. I had a 73 Olds Delta 88 Royale Convertible that I loved and a 72 Chevrolet Kingswood Estate Station wagon that made it to 305,00 miles with only two transmissions and a new timing chain. I had a '73 Cadillac Fleetwood that had been celebrity owned and it also served me very well going to nearly 300,000 and at that mileage it looked like a brand new car because it had been well cared for.
I have also been a Corvette Guy having owned a total of (4) of them over the years. The '66 Stingray was a great car, the '71 454 Stingray was a great car, the '84 C4 with "Cease Fire" injection was mediocre and the '87 was again an outstanding car in every way. The '84 was given to me in trade for some old movie cars that I had been stuck with and it was a red on red job with the "rattle your teeth" handling package. When I got rid of it it needed about $3,500 in work, so I just decided to dump it.
As a gear head and because of my years in the business I still have numerous contacts in the business and friends who work for the big three american manufacturers. What car do I tend to prefer these days? For passenger cars I tend to favor Mercedes and BMW turbo-diesels. Living where I do they are comfortable, and even with diesel fuel at a premium price I find that if the engines are properly maintained the fuel mileage more than makes up for it. The new performance diesels are a shocker with zero resemblance to the slow banging "smokin-oldies" of decades past. My last Benz Diesel made it over 525,000 miles before giving up the ghost. I paid only $2,500 for that car and when I find another one in great shape with reasonable mileage I will grab that one and start over again with another one. For trucks I would tend to go with Ford. The new 6.7 diesel is appearing to be a winner with few problems. It makes over 400 horsepower, over 800 ft lbs of torque and in the process gets reasonable fuel mileage for an 8,500 pound vehicle. The new Dodge trucks are OK if they have the Aisin Transmission, but the Chrysler Built transmissions behind the Cummins are total junk. The Chevy Duramax based on the alloys used is not an engine that is easily rebuilt much like the Cadillac "Death Star" of years gone by. The Allison transmission is excellent, but the backing of the product by GM is not and it is my understanding living in a farming area these days that the GM dealers still deny warranty claims right and left. . . . . .
When Cap and I were car shopping for me we went the full spectrum across all makes. I drove a Hyundai and was really impressed with the fit and finish not to mention the drive. We decided it would live as long as its warranty which then was 10 years. Don't know if they still have that.
I absolutely loved the Mini Cooper! It was a blast to drive, but too small for what I really needed in a car. I bring samples to my customers so I need a lot of room for "stuff."
I got scared of Toyota with the accelerator scare, and I just wasn't impressed with the Honda although it looked nice. It just didn't appeal to me.
Settled on a Volvo S60 and I'm still in love with it. Has more than enough room for what I need and has never given me one lick of trouble. Seriously, it's only been back to the dealer for oil changes and that's it. I feel fortunate because my last new car was in the shop about four times before things settled down.
I absolutely loved the Mini Cooper! It was a blast to drive, but too small for what I really needed in a car. I bring samples to my customers so I need a lot of room for "stuff."
I got scared of Toyota with the accelerator scare, and I just wasn't impressed with the Honda although it looked nice. It just didn't appeal to me.
Settled on a Volvo S60 and I'm still in love with it. Has more than enough room for what I need and has never given me one lick of trouble. Seriously, it's only been back to the dealer for oil changes and that's it. I feel fortunate because my last new car was in the shop about four times before things settled down.
About the time of the Toyota accelerator crisis, their slogan on ads in the UK was 'The Car in Front is a Toyota'. 'Whether you like it or not' was added later by the public.
About the time of the Toyota accelerator crisis, their slogan on ads in the UK was 'The Car in Front is a Toyota'. 'Whether you like it or not' was added later by the public.
funny!! would love to see the ad
Drifterwood
Superior Member
About the time of the Toyota accelerator crisis, their slogan on ads in the UK was 'The Car in Front is a Toyota'. 'Whether you like it or not' was added later by the public.
Only a few people in America had problems using pedals in the entire world. Just saying
.Oh yeah, it was just after Toyota became the biggest car manufacturer in the world. Just saying
.That's odd dude - considering ppl in the UK had similar problems...Only a few people in America had problems using pedals in the entire world. Just saying
Oh yeah, it was just after Toyota became the biggest car manufacturer in the world. Just saying
And Toyota becoming the biggest manufacturer is believed to have had something to do with it - quantity not quality. Let's hope the same doesn't happen to VW if they reach their goal of overtaking Toyota.
Just saying. :wink:
Okay a collegue just got the Kia Optima. with the panorama roof, Beautiful!!! maybe a little luxury is in hand. Damn the choices out there is phenomenal. Quality is almost a non-issue for top brands as they seem to be competing with that in mind as well as design. Performance of course without the thirst is another factor for me.
cautious about Turbo. Any concern I should have? Some of these sports models have turbo that boosts output. am concern of the upkeep and cost of such.
cautious about Turbo. Any concern I should have? Some of these sports models have turbo that boosts output. am concern of the upkeep and cost of such.
midlifebear
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Good luck with your new Kia.
As an afterthought, I remember that as a teenager we joked that Ford was an acronym for Found On Road Dead.
Fiat stood for Fix It Again, Tony.
We also had similar bad jokes about Chevy's, Olds, Buick and Chrysler. But I've forgot them.
EDIT: One automobile I sorely miss is my mother's 1968 Oldsmobile Toronado. It was a deluxe barge with every comfort available in those days. It had front wheel drive and a beautiful design. And the turbo charged 455 ci engine allowed one to glide from Salt Lake City to San Francisco averaging 100 to 110 mph with no worries. Smooth like buttah. Nevada had no speed limits in those days except through the small towns along I-80 where the speed limit is still 25 mph. Screw having a Camaro from the 60s. I always preferred the Cadillacs, Lincoln Continentals, Chrysler Imperials, Buick Rivieras, and -- of course -- those early Toronados. ZOOM!!!
As an afterthought, I remember that as a teenager we joked that Ford was an acronym for Found On Road Dead.
Fiat stood for Fix It Again, Tony.
We also had similar bad jokes about Chevy's, Olds, Buick and Chrysler. But I've forgot them.
EDIT: One automobile I sorely miss is my mother's 1968 Oldsmobile Toronado. It was a deluxe barge with every comfort available in those days. It had front wheel drive and a beautiful design. And the turbo charged 455 ci engine allowed one to glide from Salt Lake City to San Francisco averaging 100 to 110 mph with no worries. Smooth like buttah. Nevada had no speed limits in those days except through the small towns along I-80 where the speed limit is still 25 mph. Screw having a Camaro from the 60s. I always preferred the Cadillacs, Lincoln Continentals, Chrysler Imperials, Buick Rivieras, and -- of course -- those early Toronados. ZOOM!!!
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My dad had the original 66 Toronado! I loved that car and never forgave him for trading it in on a 1970 Coupe deVille. (which was a pretty sweet ride as well). It Olds got 17mpg when it was new. FORD also stood for Fix Or Replace Daily. From the mid fifties until the early seventies, GM really built the best cars and Ford was generally crap. Unfortunately GM just went to hell starting around 1973. Remember the fucking Vega? Even a Pinto was better built.
Hey, I learned to drive a stick on a vega, oh what fun it was to drive my hot blue vega alongside a Gremlin and Pinto. Don't make cars like they use to don't they. Auto repair shops where more prosperous than. *sigh*
One thing I do remember about the Olds was the fact that it did not have a back seat hump on the floor. wow!
- b.c.,
I didn't read all the above, but Dude, you're talking of going from a Corolla to a Ford or Chevy?? I understand you have some issues with the paint on your 99 Corolla, but we're talking a 12 year old car. Doubt anything comparable by either Ford or Chevy would still be on the road. But that's just my two cents.
Want a good unbiased look at car quality? Check out this:
whoops...sorry... had to edit the link. It was from consumerreports.org but the link keeps jumping to a subscription page, so try this one from Yahoo - Canada, same source (I guess if you're Canadian you get this shit free):
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/p/2020/consumer-reports-most-reliable-cars
Want a good unbiased look at car quality? Check out this:
whoops...sorry... had to edit the link. It was from consumerreports.org but the link keeps jumping to a subscription page, so try this one from Yahoo - Canada, same source (I guess if you're Canadian you get this shit free):
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/p/2020/consumer-reports-most-reliable-cars
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I have noticed that there are more than enough of the white 99 corollas in my area that have similar paint chipping away at the hood. I suspect some sort of formula defect for that year. but that's not an issue really. Just want to change. Corolla is a good car mind you. but willing to try the new "stuff" as quality has really improved. And, maybe not a chevy but possibly American or other than toyota at this time. I have had 3 hondas, 05 van, 07 Accord, and currently 08 civic Si.
- b.c.,
Yeah, maybe a formula defect. And as you say, the reports do indicate Detroit (automakers) have stepped up their game and offer several makes that have a fairly good proven track record. First versions of newer models get a bit more iffy. And Civics too, very good record.
I've driven a few of both (foreign and domestic), sold a "few" more, I think, and the folks at CR seem to have done their research on most of 'em. Good luck on your new purchase.
I'd prolly avoid red paint - they tend to fade really easily here (specially BMWs, oddly).
midlifebear
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I suspect in the UK (and surrounding non UK countries) that the issue of red paint fading is, in large part, because of the humidity; just like British Racing Green does not fare well in the super dry south west deserts of the USA.
I'll conduct an out door test and get back to you in 20 years. :wink:
