Originally posted by Tender@Jul 14 2004, 12:31 PM
i have stated several times that i am open to new ideas if they can be proven to be beneficial. no one seems to have addressed the issue of homosexuality being against human instinct, which i brought up. or whether same sex marriage could ultimatley affect the population in a negative way. or that society accepting this lifestyle will force my kids to be taught in school that it is equal to heterosexuality, when my religious beliefs are otherwise. (that's what homeschooling is for, unfortunately...)
Sexual urges can be instincual, probably are instincual, I would not be so bold as to make that sort of statement because I am not sure what your definition of "human instinct" is. I think almost any definition we use would be vague at best. But lets get down to the issue at hand. 1- Whether homosexuality is "against" human instinct, and 2- If it is, if this is bad or detrimental.
I personally don't see any evidence to suggest that heterosexuality is instinctual or automatic. Sexual desire appears to be as such, but studies have shown, and Freud postulated that sexuality has a lot to do with social upbringing. I know this is a very unpopular opinion because gays feel that they haven't "chosen" to be gay, and certainly I feel that I haven't chosen heterosexuality. But if sexual orientation isn't genetic, or instinctual it doesn't mean that it is necessarily chosen. Most of the development occuring in infancy is of the unconcious kind and is something that happens to the individual, not something they initiate or chose. there might be a evolutionary disposition pushing most of us toward the hetero side, but I think that society might be doing as much as well. Both would do so in order to keep the species propogating. Evolution and society favor heterosexuality because it serves their purpose, the making of more people(in most cases.) Does this mean that homosexuality is inherently evil because it does not follow this model? Is making babies all society really wants from its citizens? Would a heterosexual couple that for one reason or the other is sterile be considered equally as evil? I doubt most people that are anti-homosexual would say yes, because their problem with homosexuality is not that it produces no offspring, but that it is somehow not normal, or a perversion of how they see things should be. Homosexuality is not evil if in its essence it does not serve the purposes of propagation. For one overpopulation is usually a big problem in many countries and would benefit from more sterile couples, homosexuality would serve that society nicely. Secondly there are many more ways to serve society than to just create more workers for it. I'm sure there are many homosexual couples or single people that hold jobs and pay taxes, and do their part. Probably more so than I do.
The same can be said of same sex marriage. What would happen is same sex marriage were allowed in the U.S.? What is this armegeddon that everyone is talking about that will come about from letting gays marry? If gays were allowed to marry it would not make any bit of a difference in society than what we have now. There are already many gay couples out there that resemble a married couple regardless of their legal status, nothing would change except the taxes they pay. Is that what this about? Is the conservative sect of america just concerned about these people paying less taxes? Aren't they the ones who want to give out all these tax breaks in order to stimulate the economy? So wouldn't gay marriage stimulate the economy and thus be beneficial to our society???
The fact of the matter is that people oppose the gay marriage issue and homosexuality in general because of their religious beliefs. I think most people would agree that most often religious beliefs arent founded on reason and logic, but rather have their roots in mysticism and superstition, and thus should not be considered when making public policy. Society has to secular because the alternative is to live in a superstitious, primitive society that is abhorently outdated and unsuitable for real life. Laws should be laws for reasons, not because some people belive that there is a supernatural being floating in the clouds that demands that the gays that He created be ostricised and ridiculed and treated like less than human. There is no good reason to keep gays out of marriage, only religious ones, and religious reason is an oxymoron. A free society, the one we all sing about and love to praise, means that those that do not share the eccentric beliefs of others are not forced to behave a certain way because of those beliefs.
And if you read the story of Sodom and Gamorrah(sp?) you will see that "God" was reluctant to destroy the city and only did so because the outcry from humans was so strong. So while God was trying to be tolerant of the gays behavior it was humans that were the real instigators, as they usually are.
About your kids being "forced" to learn something in school that is against your beliefs I have a couple of questions. What if what they were being taught was true and your beleifs were wrong? You seem not to care about such a distinction, like your only concerned with that the fact that it is against your already held beliefs. Whether its true or not seems of little consequence. Just because its your religious belief does not make it immune to ctriticism and debate. Islamic jihadists believe that if they kill massive amounts of people they wll get a harem of virgins in the next life. That is their belief, but we can all agree that they are wrong, or at least wrong in killing someone, who knows whether or not there is a god that would reward such behaviour with pussy. I feel bad for your kids if your focus is to inculcate them with false ideas instead of encouraging them to investigate the truth for themselves. Teach them to be free-thinkers and they'll never be forced to elieve anything, no matter where its taught.
and have my first legal drink : )
