New Court Ruling Favors Al Franken

midlifebear

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Sparky is correct. A sophomore, by definition, is a "fool." Just as Face King, Starinvestor and he/she/and the holy it are sophomoric fools. In fact, they sort of represent the sophomore class of LPSG's lofty politcal forums. As for being "tenured", well I'm afraid the aforementioned dithering three will never rise above the status of sophomores.
 

justndav

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The Democrats just have to sit back and watch the Republican Party become more and more of a South/Intermountain West Party with a few here and there in the Midwest/MidAtlantic.
Dick Cheney and the likes of Rush Limbaugh are doing more than enough to alienate more and more people every day and I love it.

As for this Franken/Coleman thing- heres my solution: Franken will be declared the winner and be allowed to serve a full 6 year term from the moment he is seated. If he runs and wins again his second term starts the day after his initial 6 years is served. If he doesnt win, then his successor can only take over 1 day after Frankens 6th year is completed. That new term would then only go to January of the next seating in the Senate. Simple way to fix the problem really but Im sure the Republicans would whine, piss, moan, etc. about that too.
I used to be a moderate Republican up until 2003 and I just decided the party turned to far right for my tastes. I know vote almost strictly Democrat, outside of a few local elections for some of the folks that I truly like. This country does need a national healthcare system and the Republicans need to stop trying to limit personal freedoms (right to choice, gay marriage), afterall the party was founded on a basis of not limiting personal freedoms and less govt. interference in peoples personal lives- if that was the mantra they were founded on then what are they doing worrying about the gays and abortion? Lincoln is rolling in his grave over the garbage his party has become. Seems to me the Republicans should worry about their own personal morals issues, how many times have Rush, Rudy G, and Newt been married? How many hookers has David Vitter been with?
 

Zeuhl34

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The Democrats just have to sit back and watch the Republican Party become more and more of a South/Intermountain West Party with a few here and there in the Midwest/MidAtlantic.
Dick Cheney and the likes of Rush Limbaugh are doing more than enough to alienate more and more people every day and I love it.

As for this Franken/Coleman thing- heres my solution: Franken will be declared the winner and be allowed to serve a full 6 year term from the moment he is seated. If he runs and wins again his second term starts the day after his initial 6 years is served. If he doesnt win, then his successor can only take over 1 day after Frankens 6th year is completed. That new term would then only go to January of the next seating in the Senate. Simple way to fix the problem really but Im sure the Republicans would whine, piss, moan, etc. about that too.
I used to be a moderate Republican up until 2003 and I just decided the party turned to far right for my tastes. I know vote almost strictly Democrat, outside of a few local elections for some of the folks that I truly like. This country does need a national healthcare system and the Republicans need to stop trying to limit personal freedoms (right to choice, gay marriage), afterall the party was founded on a basis of not limiting personal freedoms and less govt. interference in peoples personal lives- if that was the mantra they were founded on then what are they doing worrying about the gays and abortion? Lincoln is rolling in his grave over the garbage his party has become. Seems to me the Republicans should worry about their own personal morals issues, how many times have Rush, Rudy G, and Newt been married? How many hookers has David Vitter been with?

Very well-said, well-written post. Good job!
 

B_VinylBoy

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This coming from the party who harped and bitched about Al Gore losing? Seems slightly hypocrtical.

Or is it giving the GOP a dose of their own medicine?
Republicans & conservatives were quick to jump on the backs of those who voted for Gore in 2000 when there was some issues regarding the votes and potential recounts, calling them sore losers and complaining that they're preventing the government from doing their job.

Only difference is that the Gore/Bush fiasco didn't last 6 months after the election finished, and Bush was sworn in on time. :rolleyes:
 

javyn

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It is hypocritcal. The Repubs told the Democrats Gore lost, deal with it. Now they are acting like bigger fools than with Coleman than the Dems did with Gore. Hey guys, Coleman lost. Deal with it.

I never thought that PEST would affect Republicans far worse than Democrats, but it obviously does.

This coming from the party who harped and bitched about Al Gore losing? Seems slightly hypocrtical.
 

Phil Ayesho

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Yeah. The state that elected Jesse 'the suplex' Ventura as Governor.

Those people deserve Franken and Coleman to serve as conjoined twins.

What?

this coming from a guy who supported the Bush Cheney debacle?

So what, exactly were Bush's qualifications for leadership? A failed oil company- daddy buying him a ball team? A term as governor of shitkicker central?



Franken may be a an extreme Liberal... but let me tell you, ANYONE who works in comedy is smarter than George Bush...
Comedians are proven to be of higher average intelligence than... cocaine abusing serial drunk driving children of privilege who never succeeded at anything
 

B_Enough_for_Me

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Or is it giving the GOP a dose of their own medicine?
Republicans & conservatives were quick to jump on the backs of those who voted for Gore in 2000 when there was some issues regarding the votes and potential recounts, calling them sore losers and complaining that they're preventing the government from doing their job.

Only difference is that the Gore/Bush fiasco didn't last 6 months after the election finished, and Bush was sworn in on time. :rolleyes:

So, lets make sure I have it: Republicans complained that Democrats bitched for 8 years over their guy losing the election, which the Democrats didn't think was appropriate. Now they use this completely different circumstance to justify doing exactly what they wish Republicans would have not done.

This Sounds:
1) Grown up.
2) Logical.
3) Not hypocritical at all.


Of course if you do want to take this stance then wouldn't the reverse also be true? Maybe the Republicans are sitting around saying, "Well, those Democrats gave us so much grief over Gore that we are just giving them some of their own medicine."

I also wonder how convieniently your stance would change if it were Norm Coleman who was recounted into the win.

I'm sure that you're sitting there saying "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
 

B_Enough_for_Me

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It is hypocritcal. The Repubs told the Democrats Gore lost, deal with it. Now they are acting like bigger fools than with Coleman than the Dems did with Gore. Hey guys, Coleman lost. Deal with it.

I never thought that PEST would affect Republicans far worse than Democrats, but it obviously does.

You can't call them hypocrites without being one yourself.
 

sparky11point5

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Yes, but the circumstances were very different.

Bush V. Gore was essentially a decision to *stop and ongoing recount despite the acknowledged evidence of systemic problems with voting in Florida*. Coleman is asking the SCOSOM to *force a recount in selected counties with very limited (or just implied) evidence that absentee ballots were improperly excluded. If you watched any of the proceedings on the non-partisan elections board in Minnesota, you have to acknowledge how painstakingly careful they were in the recount and review of ballots.

So, do you really think that it is hypocritical to have different views on completely different circumstances? Dude, how do you make it through the day dealing with life? Do you demand that people have the same opinion no matter what is happening is in fact, the exact opposite? :)

You can't call them hypocrites without being one yourself.
 

B_Enough_for_Me

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Yes, but the circumstances were very different.

Bush V. Gore was essentially a decision to *stop and ongoing recount despite the acknowledged evidence of systemic problems with voting in Florida*. Coleman is asking the SCOSOM to *force a recount in selected counties with very limited (or just implied) evidence that absentee ballots were improperly excluded. If you watched any of the proceedings on the non-partisan elections board in Minnesota, you have to acknowledge how painstakingly careful they were in the recount and review of ballots.

So, do you really think that it is hypocritical to have different views on completely different circumstances? Dude, how do you make it through the day dealing with life? Do you demand that people have the same opinion no matter what is happening is in fact, the exact opposite? :)

Sweet opinion. Coleman isn't exactly filing a frivolous claim here. Just because it doesn't rise to your standards doesn't mean he should forfeit his day in court in the name of appeasing a bunch of Democrats who feel they 'earned' the election. What lessons did we learn from Florida? We must process the ballots beyond any doubt. This isn't beyond reason. The Senate is working just fine without Coleman there.

I don't see how your little personal attack makes any sense whatsoever. These are similar circumstances. Ballots, recounts, close calls, the Supreme Court, ect. Just because YOU think the state did a better job doesn't mean they actually did. Clearly many people disagree with you.

Let me ask you one simple question: How is it going to appear, after the unelected Supreme Court steps in and hands the win to Franken, when the state does recount the improperly excluded ballots and finds that Coleman actually won the election? Does Franken have to step down? Will this set a precedent? Or will nothing happen? Explain where equity is in that situation.
 
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Day in court? It's MONTHS in court, working on YEARS in court.

And all the while Minnesota is crippled by lack of representation in Congress. You think the IRS is going to give the people of Minnesota a discount on their taxes for this? Fuck them both. The need of the state to have fair and adequate representation in the federal government supersedes both. There should be a provision for this kind of thing because it's absurd.
 

B_Enough_for_Me

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Day in court? It's MONTHS in court, working on YEARS in court.

And all the while Minnesota is crippled by lack of representation in Congress. You think the IRS is going to give the people of Minnesota a discount on their taxes for this? Fuck them both. The need of the state to have fair and adequate representation in the federal government supersedes both. There should be a provision for this kind of thing because it's absurd.
You're right. What the courts should do is rush to a decision. History has proven that when we rush to decisions we generally make the best choices. Additionally, the representation of the people of Minnesota supersedes anyone's right to be heard by a fair and objective tribunal especially when the decisions of a self interested and arbitrary state government are in question. Despite that Minnesota has several seats in Congress that are occupied and another Senator representing them we should use the 'fire sale' method of judicial decision making to ensure that the rest of the nation doesn't overwhelm the great state of Minnesota and take advantage of them in the absence of one senator. I would ask those around the nation to pray for the people of Minnesota in this extremely trying and turbulent time. I have been watching the street riots in MN on TV; how much worse will it get before Norm Coleman simply realizes that the Democrats have won. HOW LONG!?!


In summation, because the Democrats have whined enough, their will shall be done; or else more pouting will ensue.
 

D_Tully Tunnelrat

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You're right. What the courts should do is rush to a decision. History has proven that when we rush to decisions we generally make the best choices. Additionally, the representation of the people of Minnesota supersedes anyone's right to be heard by a fair and objective tribunal especially when the decisions of a self interested and arbitrary state government are in question.

So if your logic were followed during the course of the Bush-Gore 2000 Florida debacle, we should have waited for all the hanging chad, and absentee ballots to be counted before declaring a winner. As opposed to rushing to the Supreme Court for a preemptive decision before all the votes were tabulated, or should I say "objected" from being tabulated. I think this is exactly what the Dems have been saying, for years. Welcome to the club.
 

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Sweet opinion. Coleman isn't exactly filing a frivolous claim here. Just because it doesn't rise to your standards doesn't mean he should forfeit his day in court in the name of appeasing a bunch of Democrats who feel they 'earned' the election. What lessons did we learn from Florida? We must process the ballots beyond any doubt. This isn't beyond reason. The Senate is working just fine without Coleman there.

I never claimed that Coleman's case was frivolous. He has filed, and appealed through the State Supreme Court of Minnesota. That is his right, even if the court finds strongly and consistently against him.

My complaint was that you tried to claim some sort of hypocrisy for supporting Gore in contesting the 2000 national election versus not supporting Coleman in contesting the 2008 senatorial election. Again, Bush v. Gore was to stop a recount, the Coleman case was to force specific procedures onto a state that had already performed a recount. Of course, Coleman also asked for a do-over. I simply think these are very different situations.

I don't see how your little personal attack makes any sense whatsoever. These are similar circumstances. Ballots, recounts, close calls, the Supreme Court, ect. Just because YOU think the state did a better job doesn't mean they actually did. Clearly many people disagree with you.

I really don't see what was a personal attack. I just said in other words that your concept of hypocrisy is wrong or at least wrongly applied. If that is not fair in a politics forum the what is? Now, if I called you thin-skinned, pillow-biting ninny *that* is a personal attack. (But I don't!)

If the MN Supreme Court agrees that the recount was fair, it really should be the end of the saga.

I don't know of anyone that is not a strong partisan saying the recount was done badly. But, ultimately, Coleman had his chance to prove this in court.

Let me ask you one simple question: How is it going to appear, after the unelected Supreme Court steps in and hands the win to Franken, when the state does recount the improperly excluded ballots and finds that Coleman actually won the election? Does Franken have to step down? Will this set a precedent? Or will nothing happen? Explain where equity is in that situation.

Well, first of all, unelected judges make decisions all the time that affect elections, such as 2000. I might not like the overt politicization of that decision, but it was legal and within precedent.

You posit an 'if' the size of Lake Minnetonka, but lets accept it for a minute. I believe the election results would stand, since there have been many cases of miscarried elections, both fraudulent and accidental. Coleman would have to file a suit and get the MN Supreme Court to order a new election. I don't know enough about constitutional law to say if the SCOTUS could order an election. Although, I think they did in a NH congressional race in 1972 when it was essentially a tie.

To answer your question, I followed the recount, and I would bet that it was ultimately the right outcome. Gore was cheated and life went on, Coleman lost, he should get over it.