New Dick from Ohio

[madame_zora]

It's really hard to find good info on exactly how many died, because no one really knew how many there were and many of the tribes still keep their own records. The best estimate I found was on the overall decrease of the Indian Nations :# Overall decline

* From 600,000 (in 1800) to 250,000 (in 1890s) That's a lot of people to just ignore.

 

[jay_too]

Freddie...

"not quite murder" Huh? Like starvation by removing food supplies? It was policy of the War Department to attack during the harvest season and burn crops. The Interior Department had the great idea of slaughtering the herds of buffalo to remove this food supply. Of course, our forefathers shared blankets from victims of smallpox, measles, and smallpox with Indian tribes in order to clear the land. These activities sound like they could fit a legal definition of murder or genocide.

jay

 

[kilbasadad]

Welcome I hope you enjoy your time here.

 

[kilbasadad]

Originally posted by madame_zora@May 1 2005, 06:20 PM
Well, at least we midwesterners are good for something.

[post=307008]Quoted post[/post]​

Hey Madame Zora Watch it with the Midwest Comments. Ha ha ha Being from Texas but now living in Milwaukee I have found the the Midwesterners are good for more then you think. LOL Take care MZ hope to chat with you soon.

Kilba

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by kilbasadad+May 2 2005, 07:34 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kilbasadad &#064; May 2 2005, 07:34 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora@May 1 2005, 06:20 PM
Well, at least we midwesterners are good for something.

[post=307008]Quoted post[/post]​

Hey Madame Zora Watch it with the Midwest Comments. Ha ha ha Being from Texas but now living in Milwaukee I have found the the Midwesterners are good for more then you think. LOL Take care MZ hope to chat with you soon.

Kilba

[post=307179]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


Oh come on now, if I can&#39;t trash talk my own peeps, what fun is life? I&#39;ve been a midwestern nerd for most of my life, if I really hated it that much I would have left but we (who live here) come to appreicate the nerdiness of it all. Take care of you too.

 

[Ninebyesix]

I try to stay out of political debates...I&#39;m all about the politics of cock :toast:

 

[madame_zora]

So there you are&#33; We thought you died or something.

 

[Ninebyesix]

nope...I&#39;m still here....strokin away

 

[13788]

UMD: welcome..

new here myself

 

[jonb]

Originally posted by Freddie53@May 1 2005, 07:58 PM
We are perfect you know. Let see, Jonb, do you have a relative solid satistical data on how many Native Americans that were systematically removed from the United States through "forced migration and assorted other technics" between 1800 and 1900? Technics that while were "not outright murder", but nevertheless were calibrated to see that many Native Americans would not survive. Example: The Trail of Tears.

[post=307069]Quoted post[/post]​

Well, there are no hard numbers. Estimates range from a couple hundred thousand (Hrdlicka) to a milion (Mooney) to 40-50 million (more recent estimates), but hard numbers? No. Needless to say, anti-Indian groups prefer the Hrdlicka/Mooney numbers.

 

[Freddie53]

Originally posted by jonb+May 2 2005, 07:35 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jonb &#064; May 2 2005, 07:35 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Freddie53@May 1 2005, 07:58 PM
We are perfect you know. Let see, Jonb, do you have a relative solid satistical data on how many Native Americans that were systematically removed from the United States through "forced migration and assorted other technics" between 1800 and 1900? Technics that while were "not outright murder", but nevertheless were calibrated to see that many Native Americans would not survive. Example: The Trail of Tears.

[post=307069]Quoted post[/post]​

Well, there are no hard numbers. Estimates range from a couple hundred thousand (Hrdlicka) to a milion (Mooney) to 40-50 million (more recent estimates), but hard numbers? No. Needless to say, anti-Indian groups prefer the Hrdlicka/Mooney numbers.

[post=307296]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]
I suspect the 40 to 50 million includes those who died who probably would have died anyway. No one had modern medicene then. Over half of the babies born in some years died sometime before puberty in the European settlers. Also, does the 50 million include the unborn children that the Native Americans would have had?

I have seen figures that had the Europeans never entered the New Word. and the Native Americans occupying the present US would now number about 50 million with that number mushrooming as time goes on.

Don&#39;t know. But my opionion now says that the real number SYSTEMATICALLY and DELIBEATELY, that in today&#39;s society could have been documented, taken out was probably between one and two million. It is just a hunch.

But the point is we act so sanctimonious about this kind of stuff and our own history isn&#39;t exactly pristine. I remember segregated south of the late 1950&#39;s and early 1960&#39;s as a very little boy and it wasn&#39;t pristine at all.

 

[jonb]

Usually, they don&#39;t count the unborn in a death toll.

Actually, if you&#39;re interested, some traditional Lakota medicine actually does approach modern medicine in many aspects. The standard etiology is that tiny animals called mni watu, which we can&#39;t even see, cause medical disease.

 

[Freddie53]

Originally posted by jonb@May 2 2005, 09:47 PM
Usually, they don&#39;t count the unborn in a death toll.

Actually, if you&#39;re interested, some traditional Lakota medicine actually does approach modern medicine in many aspects. The standard etiology is that tiny animals called mni watu, which we can&#39;t even see, cause medical disease.

[post=307346]Quoted post[/post]​

I do find that interesting since we know know about bacteria, viruses and mold etc.

I am not enough of an expert to count the actual number of Native Americans killed. One was too many. But the reports that I have read that that the only reason so many Native Americans died was because of introduction to European diseases doesn&#39;t wash in the 19th century. In the 1500&#39;s or 1600&#39;s a case could be made for that. But not the 19th century. There was cold blood genocide going on. And the only reason more didn&#39;t die was because the powers that be at the time couldn&#39;t pull it off. Had they had their way all Native Americans would have been wiped out. That is 100 %. They is about is bad as it gets.

But our history books and our politicians today have amnesia about it all. And the press totally ignores it and the ramifications. Usually if anything is mentioned in modern day press about the "Indian Reservation" of today, it is negative.

We cant change the past. We can do something about the poverty that exists among Native Americans.

 

[jonb]

Yeah, well, the thievery continues. Just read this last week:

http://www.indianz.com/News/2005/007778.asp

 

[Pecker]

Tsk, tsk.

Some nice guy from Ohio says "Hi" and we&#39;re down to intrigue and politics.

Hi, ninebyesix.

Welcome to the Alzheimers, Autism, Dementia & Fleshpiling Amalgamated Support Group.

 

[steve319]

Originally posted by Pecker@May 4 2005, 10:21 AM
Some nice guy from Ohio says "Hi" and we&#39;re down to intrigue and politics.

[post=307839]Quoted post[/post]​

Funny, isn&#39;t it? Newbies to LPSG might have expected one-track minds to frequent the big dicks website, but I&#39;ll bet they don&#39;t expect it to be a political bent&#33;

Not complaining, just sayin&#39;...

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

Originally posted by steve319+May 4 2005, 03:47 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(steve319 &#064; May 4 2005, 03:47 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Pecker@May 4 2005, 10:21 AM
Some nice guy from Ohio says "Hi" and we&#39;re down to intrigue and politics.

[post=307839]Quoted post[/post]​

Funny, isn&#39;t it? Newbies to LPSG might have expected one-track minds to frequent the big dicks website, but I&#39;ll bet they don&#39;t expect it to be a political bent&#33; [/b][/quote]

Since intrigue and politics belong in the realm of pure evil, I blame steve319 for these digressions&#33;

 

[Sabln7]

Originally posted by jonb@May 4 2005, 08:12 AM
Yeah, well, the thievery continues. Just read this last week:

http://www.indianz.com/News/2005/007778.asp

[post=307783]Quoted post[/post]​

And like most of the thievery, lies, and deception these days,
it has tentacles reaching Tom DeLay and the extreme conservative Republicans.

I know this is not a political forum, but I am so deeply concerned about our country, our failure to honor the Constitution, and the arrogance and, in my opinion, evil of the far right in control of our country right now. I am terrified about the directions we are going. And the worst thing is that the arrogance and evil are couched in religious terms. Doesn&#39;t the Bible warn us about people like that?

I better shut up. I am way off topic, but I am concerned.

Anyway, welcome. Keep on stroking. At least masturbation is not illegal....yet....

 

[steve319]

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@May 4 2005, 04:50 PM
Since intrigue and politics belong in the realm of pure evil, I blame steve319 for these digressions&#33;

[post=307969]Quoted post[/post]​

Fie&#33; There you go and blow it for me.

How is an (in)decent, hardworking devil supposed to lower the overall tenor of the conversation and corrupt the innocent souls here (at said big dick website) if you keep pulling aside the curtain? I&#39;m telling Mom.

Don&#39;t make me put a pox on your house. :evilgrin:

 

[steve319]

Originally posted by Sabln7@May 4 2005, 05:14 PM
And the worst thing is that the arrogance and evil are couched in religious terms. Doesn&#39;t the Bible warn us about people like that?

[post=307982]Quoted post[/post]​

That&#39;s the beauty of being in the evil business, Sabln7&#33; Keep the befuddled masses all distracted worrying about stereotypical devils like me or whatever two consenting adults are doing in the privacy of their beds instead of all the evils perpetrated out in the open and under the guise of "good."

It makes a devil all giddy inside&#33; :evilgrin: