New Era Dawns for EU

[2322]

William Blake, England's eighteenth century mystic poet, wrote that the Garden of Eden was in England (and the tree of knowledge in Lambeth, where Lambeth Palace now stands). His poem "Jerusalem" is now the unofficial English anthem. It contains the line "And was the Holy Lamb of God on England's pleasant pastures seen", a reference to the New Testament idea of Christ walking with Adam in Eden, ie in England. The poem goes on to put forward the view that we should not cease until we have built the new Jerusalem in England. Blake's world picture was that Adam was an Englishman (and as Adam was made in the image of God ... I'll let you complete the sentence). The language of Eden was English.

Centre of the world is neither here nor there. It is centre of the universe that England claims. :biggrin1:

Jerusalem: YouTube - Jerusalem - Last Night of the Proms 06

And don't forget that a tree in England the Glastonbury Thorn, said to be planted by Joseph of Arimathea, is grown from Jesus' crown of thorns.

In fairness, the tree is found in the UK and Palestine.

 

[123scotty]

Dude...you're kinda singing from the official EU Commission hymnsheet...

Britain isn't yet part of a single European Superstate (almost though) - and a lot of people here don't want it. Check out if you really think it's a good idea, rather than just soundbites we're constantly fed from Brussels... [sorry to be patronising, and if these are genuinely your long-held, carefully thought out views, then I apologise. :smile:]

hi no sound bites i do believe that the e.u. and the values europeans hold are above all the main point. not american , Arabic, or any other, the thing that makes europe better, the mix of countries and cultures within. patronizing no really patronizing would be me buying a you a liter or bier and paying it with euros.
http://www.lpsg.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

[cock23]

(and continental europeans should never forget that they are free today mainly thanks to Churchill)

I think that's overstating it a bit. He played a big role yes, BUT if it wasn't for Stalin's and America's help Churchill couldn't have won the war.

 

[Jason]

I think that's overstating it a bit. He played a big role yes, BUT if it wasn't for Stalin's and America's help Churchill couldn't have won the war.

Both America and the USSR were late entering WW2. If Britain alone had not resisted at the outset of war there wouldn't have been a war for America and the USSR to join.

Before America and the USSR joined, Britain expected invasion. We evacuated tens of thousands of kids from the south to the north. We prepared defense lines across southern England, line behind line. One has just been excavated at Shooters Hill in a London suburb. We set up cells of resistance fighters for after the expected invasion. At this time Stalin kept his pact with Hitler and America was absent from the fray.

 

[D_Doewell Dadong]

Gone a bit off topic hasn't it?

 

[798686]

hi no sound bites i do believe that the e.u. and the values europeans hold are above all the main point. not american , Arabic, or any other, the thing that makes europe better, the mix of countries and cultures within. patronizing no really patronizing would be me buying a you a liter or bier and paying it with euros.
http://www.lpsg.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

LOL! Cheers for taking the comment well, dude. I was a bit pissed off over the Lisbon ratification, tbh. Buy you a pint then? :wink:

Cock23/Jase - Heard an interesting phrase the other day...apparently Churchill said we, alone, avoided losing the war - but we couldn't have won it without America's help.

Jason Els - Where do you stand on the Joseph of Arimathea thing...dyou think it likely he came to Cornwall as a trader with the tin-miners and stuff? I know there was a lot of trade within the Roman Empire at that time, so I guess it's not impossible...

 

[123scotty]

LOL! Cheers for taking the comment well, dude. I was a bit pissed off over the Lisbon ratification, tbh. Buy you a pint then? :wink:


hoy ----- cheapskate a pint ----- think i said a litre ---- good try and people say the scots are tight 1 litre = 1.759 pint

 

[mancstudandy69]

The evidence is out there, but most people don't know how to look at the big picture of what's going on globally. World court, world bank, IMF, UN, EU, NATO and the list goes on...all were formed for the same purpose...to standardize economic and political policy making across the entire western hemisphereQUOTE]

Yes. Europe also thinks it's the one to 'reform' these institutions...

You forgot the WTO belive it or not that has a bigger influence than a lot of things

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

its going to be interesting to see how europe go about making the superstate. so long as we keep vigilant we should be fine. I cant help but think this is just going to help the cause of parties like the BNP though. i was going to say UKIP there too but i cant tie them in with the BNP.

 

[Jason]

its going to be interesting to see how europe go about making the superstate. so long as we keep vigilant we should be fine. I cant help but think this is just going to help the cause of parties like the BNP though. i was going to say UKIP there too but i cant tie them in with the BNP.

As soon as Christmas is over the UK will be pretty much into an election campaign. I think this has added volatility.

BNP will probably gain votes, which is a great shame, probably mostly from Labour.

UKIP - yes I share the distaste at considering them as if together - will probably gain votes from Conservatives.

Lib Dems will probably have a checkered position, firming in some areas, elsewhere with votes going to both Con and Lab. SNP is the one I can't get my head round - will they lose support in a Westminster election? And if so where will the votes go? To stay at home?

Basically our post election politics are going to be Conservative and not-Conservative. Cons need 42%+ to form a government. They are going to have to fight for every vote. And that is what is going to make it so volatile. On Europe and migration (often perceieved as linked) I think they will say whatever they feel they need to say. UKIP lost them maybe 50 seats at the last election by splitting the vote. I think in the final weeks Cons could say almost anything, including referendum on EU membership in so many years.

For the EU the UK election matters. They are going to trumpet the new post Lisbon EU as a great achievement. Yet in 6 months they could have a Conservative government in Britain demanding modifications (which many other EU nations will want also), not agreeing a budget, requiring action on EU corruption, reminding the EU that CAP is an abhorrent policy which leads to famine in Africa, and with the prospect of a UK referendum on something sometime, and a possibility of an EU exit referendum.

 

[798686]

I agree - it probably will gain support for Nationalist parties, Lemo.

I think the EU will carry on building its superstate gradually until it can be concealed no more (we're almost at that point now with the creation of EU President). I agree we should be vigilant - but dragging our heels only buys a certain amount of time, I think. We probably need to be bold at some point and say no.

PS: Check me blog for some of their ideas on how to further politicise Europe and turn it into a single entity.

 

[2322]

Jason Els - Where do you stand on the Joseph of Arimathea thing...dyou think it likely he came to Cornwall as a trader with the tin-miners and stuff? I know there was a lot of trade within the Roman Empire at that time, so I guess it's not impossible...

No, not impossible. Britain and Rome had extensive contact with each other and it would be a good place to go, like Tatooine, if you wanted to escape imperial notice. A backwater most certainly, but not inaccessible to trade goods and business of the sort that made Joseph wealthy.

To my knowledge, there is no contemporary record of Joseph of Arimathea traveling to Britain. I think the first mention of it is part of the Arthurian legends. Now some early Christian scholars say that Joseph was one of Luke's 70 missionaries, but there is no record of Christianity reaching Britain until the 400s. That doesn't mean the Romans didn't get around, they did and they were very certainly trading with the tin miners of Cornwall in those days. Roman artifacts have been found in Britain contemporary with the period and Roman historians mention Britain as a profitable trade source. Artifacts made from Cornish tin have been found throughout the ancient Roman world. It's not as far-fetched as it sounds that Joseph of Arimathea could have fled to Britain. Glastonbury would have been a good place for Joseph to go if he was seeking other men as learned as he was. Again, on the other hand, there are no contemporary sources I know of who state this is what happened.

I see no harm in believing such a thing if it suits your faith and feelings as a Briton.

I don't dismiss that it's possible, I just wonder how probable it is.

 

[798686]

It's not as far-fetched as it sounds that Joseph of Arimathea could have fled to Britain. Glastonbury would have been a good place for Joseph to go if he was seeking other men as learned as he was. Again, on the other hand, there are no contemporary sources I know of who state this is what happened.

I don't dismiss that it's possible, I just wonder how probable it is.

Yeh that's kinda my feeling on it. Would be nice to have some evidence, but can't really accept it as true if there isn't any.

Thanks for the answer though - thought you'd know a little something about it.

I thought there was some evidence for Peter and Paul having come to Britain (pre-400ad, lol) - or maybe that's fanciful too, I dunno? I think it's partly based on the belief that the Brits were descendants of one of the lost ten tribes of Israel - and that they were sent by Christ to the lost sheep of the House of Israel (altho that could also mean spiritually lost ppl of the House of Judah...). Anyway...would need some evidence really.

 

[cdarro]

I am cautiously optimistic about this. A unified Europe could exercise great influence in the world; other than Britain, Europeans have largely neglected the world outside their borders for the last sixty-odd years.

Jason - Not just Britain, but the Commonwealth resisted.

 

[D_Doewell Dadong]

we want out we want out.

 

[123scotty]

As soon as Christmas is over the UK will be pretty much into an election campaign. I think this has added volatility.


Lib Dems will probably have a checkered position, firming in some areas, elsewhere with votes going to both Con and Lab. SNP is the one I can't get my head round - will they lose support in a Westminster election? And if so where will the votes go? To stay at home?

Basically our post election politics are going to be Conservative and not-Conservative. Cons need 42%+ to form a government. They are going to have to fight for every vote. And that is what is going to make it so volatile. On Europe and migration (often perceieved as linked) I think they will say whatever they feel they need to say. UKIP lost them maybe 50 seats at the last election by splitting the vote. I think in the final weeks Cons could say almost anything, including referendum on EU membership in so many years.

i think the next election should prove interesting. here in scotland the s.n.p. have done really well for a first time administration. they have made themselves heard conducted themselves well. this alone i think will bring them allot more votes as people have more faith in there party. the big effect will be on labour who need the scottish vote to gain seats in westminster. giving the conservative party a greater chance of power. and i agree the conservatives will say anything, do anything, speak to anyone, just to get back into power. i also think this will turn into one almighty mud bath with mud slinging and name calling everywhere.

 

[Drifterwood]

we want out we want out.

In out in out, shake it all about.

I don't think that Britain is particularly special in relation to other European countries. The Brits are plucky, resourceful, tolerant. I have spent enough time in six or seven European countries to make that comment.

In Global terms, we need to be a full part of Europe. I don't think that there is any question on that.

Poohpoohing the British Empire is rather hackneyed and not a little misconcieved agenda driven. Much of the modern world finds it's strength from the British Empire. That is long gone and of little relevance to anyone under eighty years old in the UK.

What we do have is a unique relationship with the English speaking world (not insignificant) and the commonwealth, a global network that no other country is likely to repeat.

 

[798686]

What we do have is a unique relationship with the English speaking world (not insignificant) and the commonwealth, a global network that no other country is likely to repeat.

Good point. :smile:

 

[D_Doewell Dadong]

But will we do the hokie kokie? ra ra ra

i really don't see the need for a 'united europe'. i am all for trade links between europe and freedom of movement between countries (as long as you come for a job our skill bank cannot fill, or your travelling.).
but to have a central council/government/committee/house or anything else you would like to call it is a bad idea.
the european union can't even agree what shape a banana should be! (why the feel the need to standardize what shape fruit and veg should be in the first place baffles me), how in gods name will the decide on economic policy?

its going to be a shambles!

 

[Drifterwood]

Actually the cost of politics within the EU is quite low. The UK is number two to China in terms of paid politicians. I have no problem getting rid of half of them at least.

I don't know how much time you spend in other EU countries, but I can't see where the democratic deficit is as a result of the EU.

Combined, the EU is the largest economy in the world. It's time we got our act together.